Bible Study Thread: Luke

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Redbaron said:
References? "I Am" passages make no mention of this.
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I am the bread of life,,,,,,, cant live with out food
I am the light of the world,,,,, cant live without light
I am the door of the sheep,, cant live without entering the presence of Life Creator

I am the resurrection and the life, ,,,,,,,,,,,,, cant live without Life Itself who is Jesus

I am the way, the truth, and the life,,,,,,,, Jesus is Life

I am the true vine,,,,,,,,,, we are the Branches Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit


Just to name a few,,,,, God is the Tree of Life, you cannot sustain yourself , thus, you're born, get sick , grow old and die ,

just like a cut of the branch from a tree
 
So as not to derail the thread any further, I'm climbing out of the rabbit hole of this question (which, just for the record, still hasn't been addressed).
I've read that the healing of the man in Luke 5:12-26 is a a symbol of resurrection to come-- someone lowered into a hole, unable to move, who comes walking out with a new life and new hope. A hint of the plot line yet to come.
 
Which only makes sense if you posit that a) humans were meant to be immortal and b) the first few chapters of Genesis are history rather than myth and theology and c) that the separation from God often associated with sinfulness in Christian thought is total.

I posit that we are ALWAYS connected to a greater or lesser degree to the Divine. Also that change and illness and death and decay are a part of the natural order of life. Also that there is little to no remembered history in most of Genesis (I know some scholars say remembered history enters the story around the beginning of the Abraham cycle, I personally suspect it enters with the Exodus, or possibly with the Joseph cycle) and none in the opening chapters.

EDIT< this was in response to BB above, apparently redbaron and I typed together
 
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Here you go Redbaron -----

Psalm 32 Expanded Bible (EXB)
It Is Better to Confess Sin
A ·maskil [skillful psalm; meditation] of David.
32 ·Happy [Blessed] is the person
whose ·sins [transgressions] are forgiven,
whose ·wrongs [sins] are ·pardoned [L covered].
2 ·Happy [Blessed] is the person
whom the Lord ·does not consider guilty [imputes no guilt to]
and in ·whom [L whose spirit] there is nothing ·false [deceptive].

3 When I kept ·things to myself [silent],
·I felt weak deep inside me [L my bones wasted away].
 
One question that has always niggled at me in this healing story (and in others where Jesus pronounces forgiveness). IS Jesus accomplishing the forgiveness or is Jesus proclaiming something that was already there -- that God had forgiven, was actively forgiving them all along? If you have a higher Christology than mine it becomes a moot point as you may emphasize the divinity of Jesus.

ANd also I would point out that whether Jesus is accomplishing or proclaiming the forgiveness said forgiveness is nowhere in this passage linked to the sacrificial death either of a piece of livestock or of the Messiah.
 
Redbaron said:
So as not to derail the thread any further, I'm climbing out of the rabbit hole of this question (which, just for the record, still hasn't been addressed).
I've read that the healing of the man in Luke 5:12-26 is a a symbol of resurrection to come-- someone lowered into a hole, unable to move, who comes walking out with a new life and new hope. A hint of the plot line yet to come.
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because you are mixing corporeal life with eternal life, even in your passage above, who is doing the temporary healing? it's Jesus
 
GordW said:
Which only makes sense if you posit that a) humans were meant to be immortal and b) the first few chapters of Genesis are history rather than myth and theology and c) that the separation from God often associated with sinfulness in Christian thought is total.
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Its true a lot of people posit a lot of views,,,, like yours above, maybe we should let the Bible speak for itself


Romans 5:12

what was Adam before sin & death entered?
 
I am still puzzled about why Jesus healed the paralyzed man to prove to the scribes and Pharisees He had the authority to forgive sins. Here is the specific text from today's reading:

Luke 5:23-25 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
23 Which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven you,’ or to say, ‘Stand up and walk’?

24 But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—he said to the one who was paralyzed—“I say to you, stand up and take your bed and go to your home.”

25 Immediately he stood up before them, took what he had been lying on, and went to his home, glorifying God.
 
Forgiving sins and casting out demons are two different things. Luke 11:20 has no bearing on Luke 5:23-25.
 
I think part of the answer may be in the events. It's easy to say, 'I forgive you', even if it's through gritted teeth. It may pr may not be sincere. But to heal a paraplegic in front of everyone... and have him walk out.. wow...
 
It was easier to say, "Get up and walk".
"Your sins are forgiven" is the dangerous thing to say, Like standing up and saying, "By the way, I am God." Because only God forgives sin.

It is saying things like that that led to his death. But he knew that was why he came. So infuriate the religious leaders he must.
 
The witnessing by Pharisees and Scribes seeing the man walking lets them know that Jesus is who He says He is -----and because of their hardened Hearts and unbelief that He is the Messiah they become infuriated with Him and call Him a blasphemer -----as balckbelt1961 says ---it says God is among you and here is the proof -----and like Pontifex Geronimo 13 says God had a Plan and for the plan to play out anger and disbelief on the Religious leaders part was there to play out till God's Will was carried out -----
 
unsafe said:
The witnessing by Pharisees and Scribes seeing the man walking lets them know that Jesus is who He says He is -----and because of their hardened Hearts and unbelief that He is the Messiah they become infuriated with Him and call Him a blasphemer -----as balckbelt1961 says ---it says God is among you and here is the proof -----and like Pontifex Geronimo 13 says God had a Plan and for the plan to play out anger and disbelief on the Religious leaders part was there to play out till God's Will was carried out -----
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Amen and Amen

Jesus among them tore down there religious Rule & they did not want to lose there High positions over the people, whom they controlled and kept in bondage, yet the Grace of God set all Free!
 
unsafe said:
The witnessing by Pharisees and Scribes seeing the man walking lets them know that Jesus is who He says He is -----and because of their hardened Hearts and unbelief that He is the Messiah they become infuriated with Him and call Him a blasphemer -----as balckbelt1961 says ---it says God is among you and here is the proof -----and like Pontifex Geronimo 13 says God had a Plan and for the plan to play out anger and disbelief on the Religious leaders part was there to play out till God's Will was carried out -----
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During Jesus time there were many performing miracles....so miracles alone do not proclaim a Messiah IMO.
 
paradox3 said:
Jesus raises the question, Which is easier, to say, "Your sins are forgiven" or to say, "Stand up and walk"?

What are we to make of this? I feel like I am missing something here.
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Why do we need the "show" to let us know we are forgiven? All of us during our life will probably come down with something physical that will make us hope for a miracle and more than likely there were more waiting in the lineup within Lukes story waiting for a physical miracle that never happened. Will our hope be for an inner or an outer healing? I would say the spiritual healing is more readily available even without the theatrics.....real faith doesnt require this IMO.....and Jesus confirmed this elsewhere that miracles are for the unbelievers.
I think the easiest way was the hardest way for most to accept without a miracle.
 
Sounds like a few people may think that by saying your sins are forgiven, Jesus was only going to forgive his sins and not heal him. That is not what the scripture says.

Get up and walk and your sins are forgiven both mean the same thing.

So is having your demons cast out for that matter.

Pretty much anybody’s testimony of being baptized by the Holy Spirit includes being healed or made new.

It’s part of the package.
 
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