Bible Study Thread: Luke
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I'm surprised that people hadn't heard of the son/son-in-law idea before. I actually thought it was a well known one.
GordW
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And even in Matthew we see sings that the church may have felt there was some sort of issue with Jesus being baptized by John "John would have prevented him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?” 15But Jesus answered him, “Let it be so now; for it is proper for us in this way to fulfill all righteousness.” (Matt 3:14-15).
Is that a rift between the communities (noting that in MArk 2 there is a question about why Jesus' disciples do not fast whereas John's do)? OR is it a sign of an understanding that Jesus cannot in any way have been seen as subservient or lesser than John and the Baptism my suggest that?
paradox3
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My study bible (NIV) doesn't suggest this but it gives us two possible explanations for the discrepancies between Matthew and Luke's genealogies:
1. Many interpreters suggest Matthew traces the descent of the house of David using only heirs to the throne. And Luke traces the direct bloodline from Joseph to David.
2. Another common explanation is that Matthew follows the line of Joseph while Luke emphasizes that of Mary. Tracing through the mother's side was unusual but the study guide notes a virgin birth is also unusual.
Interesting that the two genealogies were done in reverse order.
paradox3
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Like trying to solve a mystery, isn't it?
Comparing the baptism stories alone is enough to make your head spin.
Carolla
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I thought that in Judaism it was quite traditional to trace matrilineality, and was/is often important in establishing whether 'conversion' is required. Perhaps this various according to the various types (what is the proper word here? equivalent to our denominations?) of Judaism.
paradox3
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In present day Judaism, one's Jewishness is determined by having a mother who is Jewish. I believe this applies to all strands of the faith. I am guessing this is a different kettle of fish than genealogy.
I had one Jewish grandfather. Interestingly, this would be enough under the Law of Return in Israel to allow me to settle there. But I wouldn't be a Jew unless I converted.
I had one Jewish grandfather. Interestingly, this would be enough under the Law of Return in Israel to allow me to settle there. But I wouldn't be a Jew unless I converted.
Even if Jesus was traced through Mary's lineage as Luke suggests...Mary was not from a legitimate messianic family.
According to the Hebrew Bible the Messiah must be a descendant of King David through his son Solomon. Luke describes a lineage for Mary through Davids son Nathan...not Solomon.
According to the Hebrew Bible the Messiah must be a descendant of King David through his son Solomon. Luke describes a lineage for Mary through Davids son Nathan...not Solomon.
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unsafe
Well-Known Member
People --People -----Jesus did not come through any Lineage of Mary or Joseph ----------Jesus Priesthood came through the order of Melchizedek ---So your wasting your time trying to figure how Mary and Joseph come in to play with Jesus being a High Priest from the line of David -----It was a divine appointment -----no humans genealogy was involved ------
The Bible does not say who this person was so that is the real truth ---some speculate who this person might have been ----not much info is given ----but we really don't know ------Just maybe God didn't want us to know so we shouldn't get hung up on figuring it out -----we are to believe by Faith that Jesus came to be High Priest under the line of David by way of the order of Melchizedek -----
unsafe posting from Got questions
Who was Melchizedek?
Question: "Who was Melchizedek?"
Answer: Melchizedek, whose name means “king of righteousness,” was a king of Salem (Jerusalem) and priest of the Most High God (Genesis 14:18–20; Psalm 110:4; Hebrews 5:6–11; 6:20—7:28). Melchizedek’s sudden appearance and disappearance in the book of Genesis is somewhat mysterious. Melchizedek and Abraham first met after Abraham’s defeat of Chedorlaomer and his three allies. Melchizedek presented bread and wine to Abraham and his weary men, demonstrating friendship. He bestowed a blessing on Abraham in the name of El Elyon (“God Most High”) and praised God for giving Abraham a victory in battle (Genesis 14:18–20).
Abraham presented Melchizedek with a tithe (a tenth) of all the items he had gathered. By this act Abraham indicated that he recognized Melchizedek as a priest who ranked higher spiritually than he.
In Psalm 110, a messianic psalm written by David (Matthew 22:43), Melchizedek is presented as a type of Christ. This theme is repeated in the book of Hebrews, where both Melchizedek and Christ are considered kings of righteousness and peace. By citing Melchizedek and his unique priesthood as a type, the writer shows that Christ’s new priesthood is superior to the old levitical order and the priesthood of Aaron (Hebrews 7:1–10).
Some propose that Melchizedek was actually a pre-incarnate appearance of Jesus Christ, or a Christophany. This is a possible theory, given that Abraham had received such a visit before. Consider Genesis 17 where Abraham saw and spoke with the Lord (El Shaddai) in the form of a man.
Hebrews 6:20 says, “[Jesus] has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.” This term order would ordinarily indicate a succession of priests holding the office. None are ever mentioned, however, in the long interval from Melchizedek to Christ, an anomaly that can be solved by assuming that Melchizedek and Christ are really the same person. Thus the “order” is eternally vested in Him and Him alone.
Hebrews 7:3 says that Melchizedek was “without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever.” The question is whether the author of Hebrews means this actually or figuratively.
If the description in Hebrews is literal, then it is indeed difficult to see how it could be properly applied to anyone but the Lord Jesus Christ. No mere earthly king “remains a priest forever,” and no mere human is “without father or mother.” If Genesis 14 describes a theophany, then God the Son came to give Abraham His blessing (Genesis 14:17–19), appearing as the King of Righteousness (Revelation 19:11,16), the King of Peace (Isaiah 9:6), and the Mediator between God and Man (1 Timothy 2:5).
If the description of Melchizedek is figurative, then the details of having no genealogy, no beginning or ending, and a ceaseless ministry are simply statements accentuating the mysterious nature of the person who met Abraham. In this case, the silence in the Genesis account concerning these details is purposeful and better serves to link Melchizedek with Christ.
Are Melchizedek and Jesus the same person? A case can be made either way. At the very least, Melchizedek is a type of Christ, prefiguring the Lord’s ministry. But it is also possible that Abraham, after his weary battle, met and gave honor to the Lord Jesus Himself.
The Bible does not say who this person was so that is the real truth ---some speculate who this person might have been ----not much info is given ----but we really don't know ------Just maybe God didn't want us to know so we shouldn't get hung up on figuring it out -----we are to believe by Faith that Jesus came to be High Priest under the line of David by way of the order of Melchizedek -----
unsafe posting from Got questions
Who was Melchizedek?
Question: "Who was Melchizedek?"
Answer: Melchizedek, whose name means “king of righteousness,” was a king of Salem (Jerusalem) and priest of the Most High God (Genesis 14:18–20; Psalm 110:4; Hebrews 5:6–11; 6:20—7:28). Melchizedek’s sudden appearance and disappearance in the book of Genesis is somewhat mysterious. Melchizedek and Abraham first met after Abraham’s defeat of Chedorlaomer and his three allies. Melchizedek presented bread and wine to Abraham and his weary men, demonstrating friendship. He bestowed a blessing on Abraham in the name of El Elyon (“God Most High”) and praised God for giving Abraham a victory in battle (Genesis 14:18–20).
Abraham presented Melchizedek with a tithe (a tenth) of all the items he had gathered. By this act Abraham indicated that he recognized Melchizedek as a priest who ranked higher spiritually than he.
In Psalm 110, a messianic psalm written by David (Matthew 22:43), Melchizedek is presented as a type of Christ. This theme is repeated in the book of Hebrews, where both Melchizedek and Christ are considered kings of righteousness and peace. By citing Melchizedek and his unique priesthood as a type, the writer shows that Christ’s new priesthood is superior to the old levitical order and the priesthood of Aaron (Hebrews 7:1–10).
Some propose that Melchizedek was actually a pre-incarnate appearance of Jesus Christ, or a Christophany. This is a possible theory, given that Abraham had received such a visit before. Consider Genesis 17 where Abraham saw and spoke with the Lord (El Shaddai) in the form of a man.
Hebrews 6:20 says, “[Jesus] has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.” This term order would ordinarily indicate a succession of priests holding the office. None are ever mentioned, however, in the long interval from Melchizedek to Christ, an anomaly that can be solved by assuming that Melchizedek and Christ are really the same person. Thus the “order” is eternally vested in Him and Him alone.
Hebrews 7:3 says that Melchizedek was “without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever.” The question is whether the author of Hebrews means this actually or figuratively.
If the description in Hebrews is literal, then it is indeed difficult to see how it could be properly applied to anyone but the Lord Jesus Christ. No mere earthly king “remains a priest forever,” and no mere human is “without father or mother.” If Genesis 14 describes a theophany, then God the Son came to give Abraham His blessing (Genesis 14:17–19), appearing as the King of Righteousness (Revelation 19:11,16), the King of Peace (Isaiah 9:6), and the Mediator between God and Man (1 Timothy 2:5).
If the description of Melchizedek is figurative, then the details of having no genealogy, no beginning or ending, and a ceaseless ministry are simply statements accentuating the mysterious nature of the person who met Abraham. In this case, the silence in the Genesis account concerning these details is purposeful and better serves to link Melchizedek with Christ.
Are Melchizedek and Jesus the same person? A case can be made either way. At the very least, Melchizedek is a type of Christ, prefiguring the Lord’s ministry. But it is also possible that Abraham, after his weary battle, met and gave honor to the Lord Jesus Himself.
The priesthood was taken from Malchizedek and given to Abrahams children instead because, according to the Talmud he praised Abraham before he praised God.....so not likely Jesus.
Read Psalms 110:4
The Targumim (Aramaic interpretive translations)says he was Shem, the son of Noah.
That is a Jewish perspective on it.
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unsafe
Well-Known Member
Waterfall -----your quote ----The priesthood was taken from Malchizedek and given to Abrahams children instead because, according to the Talmud he praised Abraham before he praised God.....so not likely Jesus.
Waterfall your grasping at straws -----the Priest hood was not taken from Melchizedek and given to Abraham ------wherever your getting this from is Wrong --Wrong and Wrong ------Period -----No where in this Psalm does it say that it was given to Abraham--
unsafe says -----
this is the footnote from this Psalm -----
Footnotes:
Psalm 110 Amplified Bible (AMP)
The Lord Gives Dominion to the King.
A Psalm of David.
110 The Lord (Father) says to my Lord (the Messiah, His Son),
“Sit at My right hand
Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet [subjugating them into complete submission].”A)'>
2
The Lord will send the scepter of Your strength from Zion, saying,
“Rule in the midst of Your enemies.”B)'>
3
Your people will offer themselves willingly [to participate in Your battle] in the day of Your power;
In the splendor of holiness, from the womb of the dawn,
Your young men are to You as the dew.
4
The Lord has sworn [an oath] and will not change His mind:
You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek.”C)'>
5
The Lord is at Your right hand,
He will crush kings in the day of His wrath.
6
He will execute judgment [in overwhelming punishment] among the nations;
He will fill them with corpses,
He will crush the chief men over a broad country.D)'>
7
He will drink from the brook by the wayside;
Therefore He will lift up His head [triumphantly].
unsafe says ------this debunks your theory there Waterfall --it seems the Jews changed the text according to this ------
Shem as Melchizedek: A test case for validating or falsifying the Septuagint Genesis 11 chronology as original
THE GREAT JEWISH FLIP-FLOP IN THEOLOGY:
a. In 100 BC, the Jews universally viewed Melchizedek as a “messianic angelic being” and when Jesus Christ came, it was a perfect fulfillment with their messianic expectation.
b. In 160 AD, Shem became Melchizedek who transferred his priesthood to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The Jews wanted to disconnect Jesus Christ from being a priest after the order of Melchizedek (book of Hebrews) so they corrupted the text in their Hebrew pre-Masoretic Torah to counter Christian theology.
i. In 160 AD, Seder Olam Rabbah was the nasty fraudulent and corrupt chronological document the Jews created for this purpose.
ii. In order for Shem to be the same person as Melchizedek, Shem must be alive at the time of Abraham.
iii. The original and authentic Septuagint chronology in Gen 11 makes it impossible for Shem to be Melchizedek because he dies hundreds of years before Abraham is born.
iv. At the time of Christ, the chronological numbers in Gen 5 and 11 in both the Septuagint and the Hebrew pre-Masoretic text were almost identical.
v. The Jews in 160-180 AD modified the chronological numbers in their Hebrew pre-Masoretic text by reducing the age of the earth and compressing the genealogy between Shem and Abraham.
vi. Shem was second-born and NOT Melchizedek. Japheth “the Great” was firstborn in the LXX. They couldn’t suddenly redefine Shem as Melchizedek if his older brother Japheth was called “the great” in both the Greek Septuagint and the Hebrew pre-Masoretic text (MT)
3. As you can see, the chronological numbers Gen 11 for the time span between Shem and Abraham in the Septuagint (LXX), Masoretic (MT) and Samaritan Pentateuch (SP) are all different.
this is commentary on Psalms 110 ------
SUMMARY OF PSALM 110
SUMMARY OF PSALM 110
We have covered the first four Psalms of Book V, Psalms 107 to 110. Of these, Psalm 110 is the climax. In fact, no other Psalm is higher than Psalm 110 regarding Christ. It is a short Psalm with only a few main points, but these points are immensely significant. The first is that Christ is sitting at the right hand of God. This refers to His exaltation and enthronement. The significance of this verse is seen in the fact that it is mentioned approximately twenty times in the New Testament. Even the Lord Jesus Himself quoted this verse frequently. It is profitable to look into all these New Testament quotations: there are some in the first three Gospels, some in the Acts, some in Ephesians, some in 1 Corinthians, and many in Hebrews.
The second point in this Psalm is the victory of Christ. He has won the victory, and He is going to win many more victories. The fact that God has promised to make all His enemies His footstool is an aspect of His victory.
The third point is His power, His authority, His scepter. He is the exalted One, the enthroned One, the Victor, and the One who has the scepter. The rod is in His hand (v. 2).
The fourth point is that Christ is still fighting, and He will fight to the end. In verse 3 we have this phrase: “In the day of thy power.” The word “power” in this phrase has another meaning. The margin of the American Standard Version says, “in the day of thy army,” and the Good speed translation has “on your day of war.” It is not only the day of His power, but also the day of His fighting. It is then that the people will offer themselves willingly in the splendor of their consecration. It is then that the young men will be as the dew out of the womb of the morning and as the brook on the way. Christ needs refreshment because He is fighting. On one hand this Psalm tells us He has won the victory, but on the other hand He is still fighting. He will fight to the end. So many things may be realized from this short Psalm.
The fifth point is that He is today the Priest. He is the King, He is the Warrior, and He is also the Priest. He is a Priest according to the order of Melchizedek, not according to the law of a carnal commandment, but in the power of an endless life (Heb. 7:16). We do not realize how much He prays for us, how much He is sustaining us all the day long, by being our Priest. He is there at God’s right hand as the King to care for God’s interest in the entire universe; He is there as the Priest to care for us; and He is also there as the Warrior, fighting against His enemies.
The sixth point is that He will eventually return.
It is clear, by combining all these six points, that Psalm 110 is the highest peak in the revelation of Christ. Christ today, according to Psalm 110, is at the right hand of God, the highest place in the universe. Hebrews 1:3 says that He “sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high,” the highest place. Psalm 110 tells us not only where Christ is, but also what He is. He is the King, He is the Victor, He is the Warrior, He is the Priest, and He is the Coming One—at least these five items. In such a short Psalm of seven verses we see all these things. This Psalm, which gives the highest revelation of Christ, is not in the first book, but in the last book of the Psalms. In Book V, we reach the highest peak.
Waterfall your grasping at straws -----the Priest hood was not taken from Melchizedek and given to Abraham ------wherever your getting this from is Wrong --Wrong and Wrong ------Period -----No where in this Psalm does it say that it was given to Abraham--
unsafe says -----
this is the footnote from this Psalm -----
Footnotes:
- Psalm 110:4 In rabbinic legend, Shem (the son of Noah) was Melchizedek, and God had planned to make him the first high priest. But when he blessed Abraham without first blessing God (Gen 14:18f), God gave the priesthood to Abraham instead.
- Psalm 110:5 Lit has smashed, probably a prophetic construction, and so in v 6.
Psalm 110 Amplified Bible (AMP)
The Lord Gives Dominion to the King.
A Psalm of David.
110 The Lord (Father) says to my Lord (the Messiah, His Son),
“Sit at My right hand
Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet [subjugating them into complete submission].”A)'>
2
The Lord will send the scepter of Your strength from Zion, saying,
“Rule in the midst of Your enemies.”B)'>
3
Your people will offer themselves willingly [to participate in Your battle] in the day of Your power;
In the splendor of holiness, from the womb of the dawn,
Your young men are to You as the dew.
4
The Lord has sworn [an oath] and will not change His mind:
You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek.”C)'>
5
The Lord is at Your right hand,
He will crush kings in the day of His wrath.
6
He will execute judgment [in overwhelming punishment] among the nations;
He will fill them with corpses,
He will crush the chief men over a broad country.D)'>
7
He will drink from the brook by the wayside;
Therefore He will lift up His head [triumphantly].
unsafe says ------this debunks your theory there Waterfall --it seems the Jews changed the text according to this ------
Shem as Melchizedek: A test case for validating or falsifying the Septuagint Genesis 11 chronology as original
THE GREAT JEWISH FLIP-FLOP IN THEOLOGY:
a. In 100 BC, the Jews universally viewed Melchizedek as a “messianic angelic being” and when Jesus Christ came, it was a perfect fulfillment with their messianic expectation.
b. In 160 AD, Shem became Melchizedek who transferred his priesthood to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The Jews wanted to disconnect Jesus Christ from being a priest after the order of Melchizedek (book of Hebrews) so they corrupted the text in their Hebrew pre-Masoretic Torah to counter Christian theology.
i. In 160 AD, Seder Olam Rabbah was the nasty fraudulent and corrupt chronological document the Jews created for this purpose.
ii. In order for Shem to be the same person as Melchizedek, Shem must be alive at the time of Abraham.
iii. The original and authentic Septuagint chronology in Gen 11 makes it impossible for Shem to be Melchizedek because he dies hundreds of years before Abraham is born.
iv. At the time of Christ, the chronological numbers in Gen 5 and 11 in both the Septuagint and the Hebrew pre-Masoretic text were almost identical.
v. The Jews in 160-180 AD modified the chronological numbers in their Hebrew pre-Masoretic text by reducing the age of the earth and compressing the genealogy between Shem and Abraham.
vi. Shem was second-born and NOT Melchizedek. Japheth “the Great” was firstborn in the LXX. They couldn’t suddenly redefine Shem as Melchizedek if his older brother Japheth was called “the great” in both the Greek Septuagint and the Hebrew pre-Masoretic text (MT)
3. As you can see, the chronological numbers Gen 11 for the time span between Shem and Abraham in the Septuagint (LXX), Masoretic (MT) and Samaritan Pentateuch (SP) are all different.
this is commentary on Psalms 110 ------
SUMMARY OF PSALM 110
SUMMARY OF PSALM 110
We have covered the first four Psalms of Book V, Psalms 107 to 110. Of these, Psalm 110 is the climax. In fact, no other Psalm is higher than Psalm 110 regarding Christ. It is a short Psalm with only a few main points, but these points are immensely significant. The first is that Christ is sitting at the right hand of God. This refers to His exaltation and enthronement. The significance of this verse is seen in the fact that it is mentioned approximately twenty times in the New Testament. Even the Lord Jesus Himself quoted this verse frequently. It is profitable to look into all these New Testament quotations: there are some in the first three Gospels, some in the Acts, some in Ephesians, some in 1 Corinthians, and many in Hebrews.
The second point in this Psalm is the victory of Christ. He has won the victory, and He is going to win many more victories. The fact that God has promised to make all His enemies His footstool is an aspect of His victory.
The third point is His power, His authority, His scepter. He is the exalted One, the enthroned One, the Victor, and the One who has the scepter. The rod is in His hand (v. 2).
The fourth point is that Christ is still fighting, and He will fight to the end. In verse 3 we have this phrase: “In the day of thy power.” The word “power” in this phrase has another meaning. The margin of the American Standard Version says, “in the day of thy army,” and the Good speed translation has “on your day of war.” It is not only the day of His power, but also the day of His fighting. It is then that the people will offer themselves willingly in the splendor of their consecration. It is then that the young men will be as the dew out of the womb of the morning and as the brook on the way. Christ needs refreshment because He is fighting. On one hand this Psalm tells us He has won the victory, but on the other hand He is still fighting. He will fight to the end. So many things may be realized from this short Psalm.
The fifth point is that He is today the Priest. He is the King, He is the Warrior, and He is also the Priest. He is a Priest according to the order of Melchizedek, not according to the law of a carnal commandment, but in the power of an endless life (Heb. 7:16). We do not realize how much He prays for us, how much He is sustaining us all the day long, by being our Priest. He is there at God’s right hand as the King to care for God’s interest in the entire universe; He is there as the Priest to care for us; and He is also there as the Warrior, fighting against His enemies.
The sixth point is that He will eventually return.
It is clear, by combining all these six points, that Psalm 110 is the highest peak in the revelation of Christ. Christ today, according to Psalm 110, is at the right hand of God, the highest place in the universe. Hebrews 1:3 says that He “sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high,” the highest place. Psalm 110 tells us not only where Christ is, but also what He is. He is the King, He is the Victor, He is the Warrior, He is the Priest, and He is the Coming One—at least these five items. In such a short Psalm of seven verses we see all these things. This Psalm, which gives the highest revelation of Christ, is not in the first book, but in the last book of the Psalms. In Book V, we reach the highest peak.
On Psalm 110:4...
Jesus is his Church's High Priest, who earned an everlasting redemption, the fruit of which is assured to missionaries by his intercession for them at God's throne. The priesthood is his after Melchizedek's order. Melchizedek was Salem's king, who was both king and priest.
paradox3
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@unsafe, @Jae and @Waterfall
Very interesting discussion, thank you.
It was quite worthwhile for me to read Psalm 110 and Hebrews 7. I was aware Jesus is sometimes called our High Priest but I didn't know anything about the order of Melchizedek. Sometimes I wonder how some of these things have managed to escape my notice for so long.
Very interesting discussion, thank you.
It was quite worthwhile for me to read Psalm 110 and Hebrews 7. I was aware Jesus is sometimes called our High Priest but I didn't know anything about the order of Melchizedek. Sometimes I wonder how some of these things have managed to escape my notice for so long.
paradox3
Peanuts Fan
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Summary: Luke 4: 1 - 13
Jesus is now full of the Holy Spirit. He returns from the Jordan and is led by the Spirit in the wilderness. He fasts and is tempted by the devil for 40 days.
Luke's narrative gives us three different temptations:
Luke 4:3-13 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
3 The devil said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command this stone to become a loaf of bread.” 4 Jesus answered him, “It is written, ‘One does not live by bread alone.’”
5 Then the devil led him up and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. 6 And the devil said to him, “To you I will give their glory and all this authority; for it has been given over to me, and I give it to anyone I please. 7 If you, then, will worship me, it will all be yours.” 8 Jesus answered him, “It is written,
‘Worship the Lord your God,
and serve only him.’”
9 Then the devil took him to Jerusalem, and placed him on the pinnacle of the temple, saying to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down from here, 10 for it is written,
‘He will command his angels concerning you,
to protect you,’
11 and
‘On their hands they will bear you up,
so that you will not dash your foot against a stone.’”
12 Jesus answered him, “It is said, ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’” 13 When the devil had finished every test, he departed from him until an opportune time.
Jesus is now full of the Holy Spirit. He returns from the Jordan and is led by the Spirit in the wilderness. He fasts and is tempted by the devil for 40 days.
Luke's narrative gives us three different temptations:
Luke 4:3-13 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
3 The devil said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command this stone to become a loaf of bread.” 4 Jesus answered him, “It is written, ‘One does not live by bread alone.’”
5 Then the devil led him up and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. 6 And the devil said to him, “To you I will give their glory and all this authority; for it has been given over to me, and I give it to anyone I please. 7 If you, then, will worship me, it will all be yours.” 8 Jesus answered him, “It is written,
‘Worship the Lord your God,
and serve only him.’”
9 Then the devil took him to Jerusalem, and placed him on the pinnacle of the temple, saying to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down from here, 10 for it is written,
‘He will command his angels concerning you,
to protect you,’
11 and
‘On their hands they will bear you up,
so that you will not dash your foot against a stone.’”
12 Jesus answered him, “It is said, ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’” 13 When the devil had finished every test, he departed from him until an opportune time.
unsafe
Well-Known Member
paradox3 -----I am glad you approved of this discussion as it does get off track from the thread but some points in your quest to do Luke are important to clear up so I thank you for your understanding of this discussion -----We are to rightly divide the word so if we can rightly divide the word we can wrongly divide the word and there are many on here that do not post for wherever reason but they read what is posted ----that is why it is so important to have the Spiritual sides of what the scripture is saying -----People have a choice to make up their own minds but they can only do that if both sides are posted -----
So again thank you for your understanding and for taking on this Big Task this is getting God's Word out there and that is so important ------Now back to your Thread topic
So again thank you for your understanding and for taking on this Big Task this is getting God's Word out there and that is so important ------Now back to your Thread topic
BetteTheRed
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This may just be an odd word choice, but "both" sides? If we're wrestling with scripture, there's going to be AT LEAST as many sides/opinions as there are participants.
paradox3
Peanuts Fan
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Reflection: Luke 4: 1 - 13
Jesus is now filled with the Holy Spirit yet is led by the Spirit into the wilderness. Isn't this curious? Why would the Spirit want a wilderness experience and temptation for Jesus? And is the Spirit speaking from inside Jesus or is it still external?
Interesting that Jesus responds to the first two temptations by quoting from the Hebrew scriptures.
For the third temptation, the devil very craftily uses scripture himself. He takes Jesus to Jerusalem and places him on the pinnacle of the temple. This time, Jesus responds by saying, "Do not put the Lord your God to the test."
After the tests are finished, the devil departs. Until an opportune time! Does this mean Jesus will continue to struggle with temptation as His ministry begins?
Coming up next (tomorrow): The beginning of the Galilean ministry and the rejection of Jesus at Nazareth.
Jesus is now filled with the Holy Spirit yet is led by the Spirit into the wilderness. Isn't this curious? Why would the Spirit want a wilderness experience and temptation for Jesus? And is the Spirit speaking from inside Jesus or is it still external?
Interesting that Jesus responds to the first two temptations by quoting from the Hebrew scriptures.
For the third temptation, the devil very craftily uses scripture himself. He takes Jesus to Jerusalem and places him on the pinnacle of the temple. This time, Jesus responds by saying, "Do not put the Lord your God to the test."
After the tests are finished, the devil departs. Until an opportune time! Does this mean Jesus will continue to struggle with temptation as His ministry begins?
Coming up next (tomorrow): The beginning of the Galilean ministry and the rejection of Jesus at Nazareth.
unsafe
Well-Known Member
Sorry paradox3 ---just answering BetteTheRed here ------
BetteTheRed -----your quote ------This may just be an odd word choice, but "both" sides? If we're wrestling with scripture, there's going to be AT LEAST as many sides/opinions as there are participants.
unsafe says ---Whether you and others want to acknowledge it or not ----there are only 2 sides -----the world's way of interpreting scripture or the Spiritual way to interpret scripture ----any way that is not spiritual that is comes from the Holy Spirit is a Worldly interpretation --Period ++++++----so you can think there are may sided but in reality there are only 2 sides -----and scripture confirms that -----there is negative and positive ---there is good and evil ----there is the world physical and there is the Spiritual -----that is all there is -----2 sided ---the coin has 2 sides we pick a side the head or the tail ------
BetteTheRed -----your quote ------This may just be an odd word choice, but "both" sides? If we're wrestling with scripture, there's going to be AT LEAST as many sides/opinions as there are participants.
unsafe says ---Whether you and others want to acknowledge it or not ----there are only 2 sides -----the world's way of interpreting scripture or the Spiritual way to interpret scripture ----any way that is not spiritual that is comes from the Holy Spirit is a Worldly interpretation --Period ++++++----so you can think there are may sided but in reality there are only 2 sides -----and scripture confirms that -----there is negative and positive ---there is good and evil ----there is the world physical and there is the Spiritual -----that is all there is -----2 sided ---the coin has 2 sides we pick a side the head or the tail ------
Redbaron
Pirate fan since the dark ages
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Wilderness is a place of temptation; but it is also a place of formation. Jesus' time in the wilderness is a reflection of Israeli between Egypt and the land of promise. There they complained a lot, but also learned a lot. Over a generation they were able to be transformed from slaves to a People. The process continued even after the wilderness wanderings, but here they were formed.
Jesus, too, grew and developed in the wilderness; becoming more aware of himself, and seeing the areas in which he might be tempted. I'm sure he was tempted through out his life; but because he had that time in the wilderness, he was a bit more ready for them than he might have been otherwise.
Jesus, too, grew and developed in the wilderness; becoming more aware of himself, and seeing the areas in which he might be tempted. I'm sure he was tempted through out his life; but because he had that time in the wilderness, he was a bit more ready for them than he might have been otherwise.
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