Dealing with hate

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Kimmio said:
It's not something I say - to be honest it is something I feel. Because I don't hate anybody but I do hate some peoples' actions.
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Then why did you bring it up?

Please address the specific situation. Or is it not possible that two men like these can have such a relationship?
 
Northwind said:
I'm very frustrated. I was hoping to have some kind of productive discussion and I end up feeling like I'm being accused of tolerating neo-nazi's. I raised an example about a black man and a member of KKK becoming friends who love and respect each other and get the "not all views are okay" speech. I asked for comment about that specific situation and got the spiel.

While I'm frustrated, I'm also not surprised. It would be nice though if @PilgrimsProgress could be respected with a proper answer to her question.
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She didn't ask a question.
 
Northwind said:
Then why did you bring it up?

Please address the specific situation. Or is it not possible that two men like these can have such a relationship?
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It's possible. But exceptional, rather than likely. I don't think that's the likeliest outcome for every two people like each of them. A few can be reached that way if there's an opportunity for it, if somewhere inside they know they're wrong already, but not many. I think the bigotry we see today, rising on the far right, has no easy answers and love your neighbour doesn't have to mean accepting what they do.

I brought it up - love the sinner hate the sin - because I wanted to. Because I think it's relevant.
 
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Kimmio said:
She didn't ask a question.
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Fair enough. I guess i was confused when I saw the spiel and the president's name again.

As I said I had hoped this thread would be as reasonable discussion about dealing with hate and it has become a Northwind Kimmio show again. That's frustrating.
 
Kimmio said:
The problem is - at what point do we obey our conscience and say, "No. What you are doing is wrong!" Not "all views are ok". It's one thing for parents to spout off about their kids' choice of partners - none of their business really, and that sort of voyeuristic tv is a problem of its own. The spread of the far right is a different thing, and it's everybody's business - and the only way I can love Trump is to pray he has his power diminished democratically in the midterms and that he is voted out next term. I do not have to have to feel warmly about him.
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Kimmio, I don't think you have to think warmly about Trump....
My conscience certainly doesn't approve of Trump's policies - but it does "say" to me that he is a fellow human being, and, as such. he can be criticised for his beliefs and policies - but personal attacks (ad hominem) are going too far. Who knows, perhaps if you were raised the way he was, and experienced life the way he has, maybe you would think like him?
In saying that, I still disagree with his policies and his politics. (Hey, that is probably related to my own background and upbringing!)
 
PilgrimsProgress said:
Kimmio, I don't think you have to think warmly about Trump....
My conscience certainly doesn't approve of Trump's policies - but it does "say" to me that he is a fellow human being, and, as such. he can be criticised for his beliefs and policies - but personal attacks (ad hominem) are going too far. Who knows, perhaps if you were raised the way he was, and experienced life the way he has, maybe you would think like him?
In saying that, I still disagree with his policies and his politics. (Hey, that is probably related to my own background and upbringing!)
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The man and his policies are pretty inseparable when he lies constantly - his policies are whatever his personal impulses are at any given time - which are highly unnerving to most of the world. And that makes it extremely hard to trust him, and what he says, for better or worse. He's consistently inconsistent. And he gets gratification from cheering fans - cheering at some of the most awful remarks, for a leader to make. I would much prefer if he was not POTUS because of that. Maybe if we'd all grown up exactly like him we'd be the same. That doesn't make him fit to run the US.
 
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Dislike of actions ... are like the essence of hate ... all that is left after that absolute power than needs milling down ... and then all that is left ... amounts to nothing if there's nothing beneath or beside the things separated out of the wall of understanding!

Imagine negative feelings compared to detrimental actions as thought! To this we are exposed as part of the learning curve of life ... a paradigm ... there we slide down the other side to escapism!
 
I liked the interview - and I agree that hatred often arises from fear related to unknowingness (if there is such a word). I mean that when we live in isolated, segregated ways - whether that is in communities, churches, schools, clubs etc. - then our lack of experience with actually people who seem different from ourselves deprives us of an ability to critically challenge opinions we may hear broadly espoused. Experience can change us ... as can respectful dialogue.

I also found the former KKK member's comments interesting from a 'gang' related perspective - who was targeted to become members, how difficult it was to leave - especially because of the loss of sense of belonging - feeling reviled by both those inside & outside the clan. So many similarities to 'street gang' culture today.
 
Northwind said:
I recently heard this thought provoking program on CBC Radio. It made me think of some conversations here, especially in relation to some politics and professors.

Fighting hate with friendship — one Exalted Cyclops at a time | CBC Radio

From the article:

"You cannot hate the hate out of a person. You cannot beat the hate out of a person. But you can love it out of a person," Daryl Davis
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What an ordinary and compassionate man. Deep in Jesus compassion. MLK continues to live in this man. And it is Daryl's hobby lol Totally cool.

Love not hate.

If u get the chance u should see the documentary. Tis called "Accidental Courtesy" and was released in 2016

And still there r some people who aren't good with what Daryl is doing (see the doc). Because they have a different Belief it seems; and that disheartens me.

It disheartens me when I see people kicking MLK into the kerb, engaging in violence to help the oppressed.

It disheartens me too hear of the South African gov't not listening to Mandela's words not to get revenge on the "whites".

Compassion and love can b achieved, but not through all Belief Systems. Those who practice Social Conflict Theory see everything in terms of power differentials and they can turn on their own if the don't tow the party line.

Anger. Resentment. Hate. Disgust.

Visceral emotions. Hard to defrag.

Difficult. People believe what they believe. Our particular civilization realized how powerful and important it was to not interfere with that, that it is a fundamental human right (not given by woman or government but axiomatically true).

From our heads comes the world.

Not all roads/beliefs lead to Deity/compassion equally.

(With the realization that even if people were to even have shared norms and spaces, they can still b in conflit. Cf. The fight over the alberta/bc pipeline with some natives being for it -- help lift them out of poverty etc -- and some being against it. So natives, a people that should share a collective goal, with in this case conflicting goals--notes to @GeoFee in his adumbrations of should the answer to collective human flourishing be right there in plain sight).

I wish Daryl etc all the hope in the world.

Love over hate.

Jesus and Siddartha locked in a womb,
Inanawhimsey
 
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How will the humbly working fiction separate the abstract from the absolutely real?

Tis a mindful strain ... visceral (relating to deep inward feelings rather than to the intellect) ... that gothic buried sensation?

Cat got it ...
 
Inanna you are repeating a lie about South Africa, being perpetuated by white supremacists. That’s not love over hate.
Trump Echoes Neo-Nazi Propaganda About South Africa (That He Heard on Fox News)

And I don’t know who you are referring to as using violence to help the oppressed. Your seemingly sincere post, once again, sounds manipulative - you bury little right wing political (and incorrect) zingers in with the love and acceptance stuff. And who did you learn your view about Social Conflict theory from? Yours is opinion not fact. But you speak as if it’s all fact we must accept as a premise.
 
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Northwind said:
"You cannot hate the hate out of a person. You cannot beat the hate out of a person. But you can love it out of a person," Daryl Davis
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This.

Of course once you buy into this position you are immediately forced to look long and hard at what is the most loving way to address hate. I also think you have to resign yourself to the fact that the loving way will not be immediately gratifying. It will be painful and difficult in the short-term.

Some ways forward will be, I think, counter-intuitive and present a stumbling block for some. This means we will most likely face opposition from people we thought would have been allies.

I think we need to be more aggressive in deplatforming individuals who actively advocate hate. It does run the risk of those who feel marginalized feeling greater marginalization. And yet most of those "feelings" are incubated and grown in silos where critical self-reflection is not encouraged. Deplatforming destroys incubators. Yes, they will find other ways. The more difficult it becomes for those with hatreds to communicate with others who share the same or similar hatreds the better for everyone else.

Human beings are social animals. Taking away an unhealthy community is only half the equation. We need to replace it with a healthy community or rot continues to happen and spread. Which is going to require a lot more people like Daryl Davis to step up and be ready.
 
Do great unknowns cause traumatic reactions in mortals? Imagine something as unknown as the autonomous psyche ...

Reactions such things ... would they be unspeakable and thus ineffable? Thus the road to silence my friends ... it is so writ ... on the essence of ba*gasse ... and thus some say it's in the bag 've soel!

Some get extremely emotion, black out and never get over it to the lighter side of acknowledgement of what it was all about ... sort of like a tube of passion ... cavein darkness .... that you got yourself into because of denying mind! Thus it wends ...
 
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