God's Sovereignty And Our Freedom To Choose

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Hi George,
Faith can be a wishy-washy word.
If I am in an airplane falling from the sky, I can place my faith in a parachute and be saved. If I instead place my faith in an anvil it will not work out so well.

The bible is very clear as to the object of our faith that saves. That being Jesus Christ alone.
 
Hi,
Christianity is Coca-Cola
That would be anti-Christianity. Coca Cola is a recipe for disaster among children, youth and adults. Pure sugar with a measure of caffeine, by which the brain is stimulated and addiction precipitated. The health consequences are well documented and should be more than enough to turn the word off Coke. It adds death and not life.

George
 
I was an atheist, like you. Lunch hour in high school, I did mock blasphemous sermons with a little red bible I got in elementary school. I was entertaining.

But I became a Christian because of evidence. There are lots of books and testimonies that point to evidence for God.

I have my own experiences as well that convince me I am right, and believe me in the early days of my conversion, I held that maybe I am experiencing an aneurysm or some health crisis.

But I know 100’s of people who experience the world as I do. People I live and trust. We are not all lying to each other.

Darwin is dead.

testify, brother!

ps. therez nothing like the mystical experience, direct experience with Deity, isn't there?
 
Hi,
Faith can be a wishy-washy word.
It was not wishy-washy for Abraham and it is not wishy-washy for me.
The bible is very clear as to the object of our faith that saves. That being Jesus Christ alone.
The key word here is object. Faith is not associated with any object. It is a response to the living word of God. Associating faith with any object, the Bible for example, opens to idolatry. A perennial and pernicious problem in Christianity as in ancient Israel. Objects are easy to manipulate and serve temple economies very well.

George
 
Hi,
That would be anti-Christianity. Coca Cola is a recipe for disaster among children, youth and adults. Pure sugar with a measure of caffeine, by which the brain is stimulated and addiction precipitated. The health consequences are well documented and should be more than enough to turn the word off Coke. It adds death and not life.

George

I think the meaning of the banner he posted later, though, isn't so much that Christianity is Coca-Cola but that Christ, rather than Coke, is "the real thing". It's saying precisely what you're saying, IOW.
 
I think the meaning of the banner he posted later, though, isn't so much that Christianity is Coca-Cola but that Christ, rather than Coke, is "the real thing". It's saying precisely what you're saying, IOW.
Could be. But why use such a metaphor for such a purpose?
 
Could be. But why use such a metaphor for such a purpose?

Christianity has been repurposing and reskinning other symbols for as long as its been around. Why not take the sympbolism of something that claims to be the "real thing" and turn it to the purpose of one that really is "the real thing" (from a Christian standpoint)?
 
And when God ordered Moses to make a pole with a bronze serpent to turn to, which God was that? And why a serpent.....as in the garden of eden?
Numbers 21:9
Not sure what you are getting at. The scripture says it was God who instructed Moses. It wasn’t an idol. It was God inventing the International symbol for medicine.
 
Hi,
It was not wishy-washy for Abraham and it is not wishy-washy for me.
The key word here is object. Faith is not associated with any object. It is a response to the living word of God. Associating faith with any object, the Bible for example, opens to idolatry. A perennial and pernicious problem in Christianity as in ancient Israel. Objects are easy to manipulate and serve temple economies very well.

George
Sorry George, faith always has an object.
Abraham’s faith in God (the object) was credited to him as righteousness. A quick search showed 33 occurances of Scripture having Jesus as being the object of our faith. I am sure there are even more implied.

I can tell you now, that when you say you have no object of your faith, you are implying that the object is you.

 
Hi,
I can tell you now, that when you say you have no object of your faith, you are implying that the object is you.
I stand in a subjective relationship with a subjective God. There is nothing objective about God. Martin Buber’s “I and Thou” makes this quite clear. Your reference, earlier in the thread, to the golden calf indicates the objectification of God.

George
 
Clearly, it isn't the only explanation.



God doesn't even exist to make us feel more comfortable.

God exists.

What is underconsideration is how God relates to humanity and exercises God's sovereignty.



If only we could. That is part of what is at issue. Does humanity have the ability to atone for its own sin or, must God atone on our behalf?

Where Christianity argues for Salvation by Grace alone it acknowledges that humanity has completely and utterly lost its ability to atone for its sin. Where Christianity argues for Participatory Salvation by works it acknowledges that humanity retains control over its own salvation.



Or God judges. That is the freedom afforded to God via God's sovereignty.



It can be right when the election of individuals is left up to God's freedom to choose rather than insisting that there is some way that election can be earned.



In the Garden before the fall Adam and Eve are not morally corrupted. They do, as a matter of fact have the freedom to choose between obedience (continued life) or disobedience (death). They chose disobedience (death). That effectively kills the freedom to good humanity enjoyed. Once destroyed there is no longer freedom to good.

God doesn't tempt Adam and Eve.

The serpent tempted Adam and Eve.

Both Adam and Eve remembered the instruction given by God, they were aware of the consequences. Once chosen, they cannot unchoose.

There was no necessity for eating of the tree. There was plenty of food available for them. They fell prey to their own vanity and because of that they disregarded the clear instruction that they knew.

In their defence Adam blamed God and the Eve. Eve blamed the serpent. None took responsibility for their own deeds or actions or motives.

That dog won't hunt.
What was the serpent doing tempting others....isn't that odd for such activity before "the fall"? It sounds like the garden was perfect with the serpent or else it was imperfect with the serpent in it. How could the garden of eden hold the tempter before Adam and Eve chose to eat the fruit?
 
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