Is Ontario headed for another Wynne win?

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Jae said:
There's no way I could vote for the Wynne Liberals. Not after the sex-ed scandal. Not after what I feel was the undue raise in the minimm wage. Not sure who I'll vote for if PPP remains not an option.
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Oddly, those are not problems for me. I support the sex ed curriculum and, while I think the implementation sucks, I do support the basic premise that the minimum wage needs to be raised closer to being a "living wage".

It is more things like the gas plant and Orange scandals. It is the constant rushing out of policies in a way that seems more like marketing strategy than a sane economic or social one (the minimum wage falls under this). Too much time spent on saving their own bacon than really doing things that help people.
 
Mendalla said:
Oddly, those are not problems for me. I support the sex ed curriculum and, while I think the implementation sucks, I do support the basic premise that the minimum wage needs to be raised closer to being a "living wage".

It is more things like the gas plant and Orange scandals. It is the constant rushing out of policies in a way that seems more like marketing strategy than a sane economic or social one (the minimum wage falls under this). Too much time spent on saving their own bacon than really doing things that help people.
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The minimum wage one was important to more people than you think, Mendalla. My Rev serves on ISARC, a multi-faith anti-poverty initiative. They were 'over the moon' excited at this announcement, because it's what they'd been advocating in policy papers for a long time. I don't think the minimum wage increase was a marketing strategy, but a real response to The People and their poverty concerns.
 
BetteTheRed said:
There was no sex ed scandal, except that manufactured by an absolute minority of religious fundamentalists. No 'regular' person in Ontario thinks that there's anything wrong with the way sexual education is mandated in the provincial curriculum.
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Sounds like you just want to define a "regular person" as anyone who was not opposed Bette. So you're right. No one who was not opposed was opposed.

In fact, it was not just religious fundamentalists who voiced opposition.

BetteTheRed said:
Increases in minimum wage are a tried and true way that "a rising tide floats all boats". It's exactly the opposite of the completely failed "trickle down" theory espoused by some conservatives. Poor people spend every extra penny they get, usually right into the local economy; rich people put more of it away. It's a fact, an economic fact, that actually works. Injecting money into the bottom is good for an economy.
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So far we've seen small businesses closing, and workers having their benefits taken away.
 
BetteTheRed said:
The minimum wage one was important to more people than you think, Mendalla.
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I never said it wasn't. In fact, I very clearly said I support raising it. But increasing it that fast in that short a time makes no economic sense, esp. since it has ripple effects on other costs. They rushed it through to get it in before the election, pure and simple. A policy based on actual economics would have raised it over a longer period and balanced out the impacts on businesses, esp. Mom and Pop shops, better. It is a policy written by politicians, not economists, and part of a politician's job is to consult and listen to experts when formulating policy.
 
Jae said:
So far we've seen small businesses closing, and workers having their benefits taken away.
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I"m sure if you look closer you will also see those families who were working for the previous minimum wage are eating better and not having to choose whether they pay for their hydro bill, rent or buy groceries.
 
Waterfall said:
I"m sure if you look closer you will also see those families who were working for the previous minimum wage are eating better and not having to choose whether they pay for their hydro bill, rent or buy groceries.
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Hydro and rent seem to be ever-increasing Waterfall. As for groceries, the stores will no doubt be raising their prices (if they haven't already) due to the amount they must pay out in labor costs. At the cafe where I work, we've increased some of our prices since the minimum wage hike.
 
Jae said:
Hydro and rent seem to be ever-increasing Waterfall. As for groceries, the stores will no doubt be raising their prices (if they haven't already) due to the amount they must pay out in labor costs. At the cafe where I work, we've increased some of our prices since the minimum wage hike.
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Rent prices can only be raised by a certain percentage before and after the wage increase (nothing changed there) and the same with hydro. Better to have more money to help pay for it.
People below poverty seem to be very innovative with their choice in groceries and bargains can usually be found.
 
Waterfall said:
Rent prices can only be raised by a certain percentage before and after the wage increase (nothing changed there) and the same with hydro. Better to have more money to help pay for it.
People below poverty seem to be very innovative with their choice in groceries and bargains can usually be found.
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I'm one of those people Waterfall. I'd rather grocery prices didn't hike up and people like myself, my family, and others like us could be a bit less "innovative."
 
Jae said:
I'm one of those people Waterfall. I'd rather grocery prices didn't hike up and people like myself, my family, and others like us could be a bit less "innovative."
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And you were't on minimum wage at $11.25/hr?
 
Hmm...the people I know making minimum wage have been largely overjoyed at the increase. It makes a nice little difference in what you bring home in a week, even if you lose a bit to increased prices, which increase whether the min wage increases, or not. Which is the point.
 
Brown was always an outsider to the provincial PCs and he was never much liked by them. Then he alienated the socon group that put him in the leadership by supporting (then not supporting, then supporting again) the sex ed curriculum, and sorta kinda agreeing to a carbon tax and all sorts of other more progressive ideas. The end result was that even though he had the PCs ahead in the polls and poised to take power he really didn't have many allies in the party. When all this broke there was some conspiracy speculation that this was Kathleen Wynne and the Liberals who stage managed this thing. I've now seen a few who say the scandal was somehow an inside job. Whatever - the PCs seem to be moving with undue haste to rid themselves of everything Patrick Brown, to the point at which I've seen speculation that Fedeli is talking about not signing his nomination papers.

I made clear above that just on the basis of his judgement I think Brown had to step down - but there's way too much happening way too fast. I'm starting to feel sorry for the guy.
 
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revsdd said:
the PCs seem to be moving with undue haste to rid themselves of everything Patrick Brown, to the point at which I've seen speculation that Fedeli is talking about not signing his nomination papers.
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Yes. ON PC's are engaged in quite the blood-letting.

I think that what Fedeli has signaled with respect to Brown's nomination papers is that he will not sign them if Brown has not taken actual steps toward clearing his name. Which really shouldn't be difficult since Brown did say he was going to do everything in his power to clear his name.

His lawyer should know how to file a defamation suit against CTV and if his lawyer doesn't they could always use the defamation suit that Wynne launched against Brown as a template.

Fedeli has been somewhat gentle on Brown. He allowed him to take a leave of absence rather than just booting him from caucus. Brown could still represent the party if he abides by the conditions currently set. I don't know that he will be very welcome. Even if the local riding wanted him I can't see many high-profile ON Conservatives wanting to be seen with him.

revsdd said:
I made clear above that just on the basis of his judgment I think Brown had to step down - but there's way too much happening way too fast. I'm starting to feel sorry for the guy.
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Well, as I said above, quite the blood-letting going on. The allegations put a big stink on Brown and, having had dogs sprayed by a skunk, the stink gets everywhere, even places the dogs haven't been. So far, it simply seems to be Brown cronies that are getting the heave-ho. Some Brown staffers are being reassigned elsewhere. It isn't like some of those Brown cronies don't have their own stink on them. Rick Dykstra buying drinks for a minor (sure he claims he did not know he just assumed that because she was in the bar that she was legal) is now confronting allegations of sexual assault himself. Executive Director Bob Stanely was fired that seems to be driven more by the vote-rigging scandals from various ridings during last year's nominations. Either way, he is close to Brown and participates in the stink for reasons that seem more his own doing.

Seems like there has been quite a bit of "stuff" going on within the party that was creating a stink of its own.

The public stink of recent events being the proverbial last straw.

I don't know about feeling sorry for Brown.

I wouldn't wish a week like this on my worst enemy though, that's for sure.
 
revsdd said:
I've now seen a few who say the scandal was somehow an inside job.
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When these stories about other internal shakeups in the party happened, esp. Dykstra's downfall, I started wondering, too. More likely, though, Brown's fall from grace opened the door to his opponents going after his allies as well as taking the wraps off some internal stuff that they had so far managed to keep internal.
 
In polity and politic'n drive is all important ... no intellect required except perhaps as a divine bi-line ... thus the buried understanding!

Something has got ta give ... or a' dam-ist will cloud the issue ...
 
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