Is Ontario headed for another Wynne win?

[Mendalla]

He's a lawyer, I think, but I think he has never practiced law. He's getting a bit long in the tooth to be starting up his own law firm, but not really attractive as a partner/employee because of his total lack of legal experience.

I'm not sure he's totally bereft of options but I suspect most of those will still have some connection to the political world. Political experience + a law degree sometimes lands one a job as a lobbyist or consultant. He'll need to get his name cleared, first, though.

I heard the name Lisa Raitt mentioned as a possible successor. She was a candidate for the Federal job and has a good rep in the conservative world from her days in Harper's cabinet. That's the kind of person I think I would be looking at were I part of the caucus or party leadership. Caroline Mulroney's name keeps coming up, too, but she's still a noob at electoral politics (though so was her Dad when he became Leader of the Opposition) and may not seen as conservative enough for the party's right-wing, esp. after their disappointment with Brown's swing to the center.

Right now, the pressing need is for an interim leader to keep things on track while they sort it out. That will likely be someone currently in caucus who isn't expected to run for the permanent role.

 

[revsdd]

As I understand it he was elected to Barrie City Council at 22 and has never been out of elected office since (except for a few months after he resigned his federal seat when he won the Ontario PC leadership and before he was elected to the provincial legislature to become Leader of the Opposition.)

He has a law degree from the University of Windsor, but if he ever practiced law it would seem to have been as a sort of "on the side" thing perhaps while he was a municipal councillor. (I don't know how much Barrie councillors get paid - if it's enough to live on or if they need outside employment.)

He has little experience outside politics, he now has a sexual assault scandal over his head, he's pissed off the pro-life and other so-con groups that helped him win the leadership by being too "progressive" as leader, and those who are "progressive" never really believed he was "progressive." Hard to believe for someone who's had a very successful political run (ncluding the leadership of a major provincial party) but I suspect he'd have a tough time finding much in the way of significant employment outside politics.

 

[Mendalla]

(I don't know how much Barrie councillors get paid - if it's enough to live on or if they need outside employment.

Given that London is bigger and only recently started treating its councillors as full-time, I'd be surprised if Barrie was any different. I used to know a prominent London councillor (and former NDP MPP) and he definitely still had a family law practice going while he was on council.

 

[Pinga]

Ah yes ... Right to rumor and whisper for all good tax-payers about their oh so unnecessary naughty so called leaders.

The representatives of the party had stated that the first she heard of it was the day of the announcement.
The point the reporter was making was that there were rumours and innuendos in the halls of parliament for years, and definitely in the days leading up to the announcment.
The final word was somethign to the affect, we must hang out in different halls.

 

[revsdd]

Given that London is bigger and only recently started treating its councillors as full-time, I'd be surprised if Barrie was any different. I used to know a prominent London councillor (and former NDP MPP) and he definitely still had a family law practice going while he was on council.

Yes, but I'm taking into consideration that Brown is and always has been a political animal, that he was 22 when he was elected to Barrie Council and 28 when he entered the House of Commons (which would pay enough to make outside employment unnecessary) as well as unmarried and childless. For all we know he could have been living with his parents while he was on Council and not had much need for outside employment. His municipal stipend might have been enough to fund his apparent non-drinking bar crawls while he looked for girls. (Sorry, but that seems to have been his pattern - there's lots of evidence of that behaviour.)

 

[Waterfall]

A guy in his 20's, that doesn't drink and isn't married, going to bars to meet girls!!!! OMG, say it isn't so!

 

[Luce NDs]

He's a lawyer, I think, but I think he has never practiced law. He's getting a bit long in the tooth to be starting up his own law firm, but not really attractive as a partner/employee because of his total lack of legal experience.

Missing protocol?

 

[Luce NDs]

A guy in his 20's, that doesn't drink and isn't married, going to bars to meet girls!!!! OMG, say it isn't so!

A stern ideal is Hem ..

 

[revsdd]

A guy in his 20's, that doesn't drink and isn't married, going to bars to meet girls!!!! OMG, say it isn't so!

You can make fun of that, but in the light of the allegations against him (and they are only allegations) they suggest a pattern that's troubling. The pattern (if the allegations are true) seems to have been that he would pick up young girls in bars (apparently a pattern extending into his time as an MP - thus in a significant position of influence and some prestige) who were drunk and try to take advantage of their inebriation and his position.

So, laugh if you want - but it is in fact a troubling pattern.

By the way I was once a single guy in my 20's who had no objection to meeting girls, but I was also a non-drinker and because of that I rarely went to bars to meet them. Again - you may laugh. I find that weird.

 

[Luce NDs]

Under the Midnight illuminations (son*et) strangely unseen like creepy wiles ... uncalled for passions ... just is ... bean or lentil then ... when it goes? Understanding word is like that as well .. a deep item ... not a noun but simple attribute?

Tis the pits ... related to the grief curve ...

 

[Waterfall]

You can make fun of that, but in the light of the allegations against him (and they are only allegations) they suggest a pattern that's troubling. The pattern (if the allegations are true) seems to have been that he would pick up young girls in bars (apparently a pattern extending into his time as an MP - thus in a significant position of influence and some prestige) who were drunk and try to take advantage of their inebriation and his position.

So, laugh if you want - but it is in fact a troubling pattern.

By the way I was once a single guy in my 20's who had no objection to meeting girls, but I was also a non-drinker and because of that I rarely went to bars to meet them. Again - you may laugh. I find that weird.

Well as "weird" as that may sound to you, he was probably hanging out with his friends that do drink, because quite frankly there really aren't that many places that young people can hang out together. I'm sure the women in the pub may have been looking to meet some men too.
So far "allegations" and speculation, is there any proof? Other than an accusation that hasn't gone to trial yet?

 

[revsdd]

Well as weird as that sounds, he was probably hanging out with his friends that do drink, because quite frankly there really aren't that many places that young people can hang out together.
So far "allegations" and speculation, is there any proof?

No, there's no proof of anything except - and, for me, this is a very big EXCEPT - that he has shown absolutely horrible judgement and clearly (we've seen the social media messages and pictures) used his position as an MP to try to impress an 18 year old girl he had known for just a few hours who he then offered to get into bars (in spite of the fact that she was under the legal drinking age) and who he then invited back to a drinking party at his own house where she got drunk. No. No questionable behaviour there. I don't need proof of the criminal stuff. That is absolutely horrible behaviour and awful judgement for a guy who was an MP at the time and who now was probably just a few months away from being Premier of the largest province in the country.

 

[Waterfall]

No, there's no proof of anything except - and, for me, this is a very big EXCEPT - that he has shown absolutely horrible judgement and clearly (we've seen the social media messages and pictures) used his position as an MP to try to impress an 18 year old girl he had known for just a few hours who he then offered to get into bars (in spite of the fact that she was under the legal drinking age) and who he then invited back to a drinking party at his own house where she got drunk. No. No questionable behaviour there. I don't need proof of the criminal stuff. That is absolutely horrible behaviour and awful judgement for a guy who was an MP at the time and who now was probably just a few months away from being Premier of the largest province in the country.

Fine, I personally will reserve my judgement until things unfold more.
On a personal note, I went into bars underage as well and it wasn't because of anybody's influence, it was because the person at the door checking ID, wasn't doing their job very well.

 

[Luce NDs]

No, there's no proof of anything except - and, for me, this is a very big EXCEPT - that he has shown absolutely horrible judgement and clearly (we've seen the social media messages and pictures) used his position as an MP to try to impress an 18 year old girl he had known for just a few hours who he then offered to get into bars (in spite of the fact that she was under the legal drinking age) and who he then invited back to a drinking party at his own house where she got drunk. No. No questionable behaviour there. I don't need proof of the criminal stuff. That is absolutely horrible behaviour and awful judgement for a guy who was an MP at the time and who now was probably just a few months away from being Premier of the largest province in the country.

Does that define wile ... sly, etc.?

Some polity demands total free wiles ... leaving something mist as missing clues ... cloudy days of azure things?

 

[revsdd]

Fine, I personally will reserve my judgement until things unfold more.
On a personal note, I went into bars underage as well and it wasn't because of anybody's influence, it was because the person at the door checking ID, wasn't doing their job very well.

I'm sorry - but the issue isn't whether either you or the 18 year old went into bars. The issue isn't about the girl (or girls) at all. The issue is that a Member of Parliament in his 30's (thus in a position of respect and influence) offered to use his respect and influence to get her into bars that she wasn't legally allowed to be in. The issue is that a Member of Parliament in his 30's got the 18 year old girl to come to his house to attend a drinking party. These things are not in question. What does it have to do with you getting into bars when you were underage? This is about Patrick Brown's judgement - not whether the 18 year old girl went to bars. If that's the kind of judgement and character you think is perfectly fine for a potential Premier of Ontario, that's fine. I disagree.

 

[chansen]

30-year-old MPs who troll bars, looking for 19-year-olds is creepy. When you're 19, 30-year-olds are old. When you're a politician, it's worse because you are in a position to hire these kids. It shows remarkable lack of judgment. That's before you take his behaviour with them alone into account.

 

[Waterfall]

Where did you get the information that he "trolled bars" looking for 19 year olds?

I'm sorry - but the issue isn't whether either you or the 18 year old went into bars. The issue isn't about the girl (or girls) at all. The issue is that a Member of Parliament in his 30's (thus in a position of respect and influence) offered to use his respect and influence to get her into bars that she wasn't legally allowed to be in. The issue is that a Member of Parliament in his 30's got the 18 year old girl to come to his house to attend a drinking party. These things are not in question. What does it have to do with you getting into bars when you were underage? This is about Patrick Brown's judgement - not whether the 18 year old girl went to bars. If that's the kind of judgement and character you think is perfectly fine for a potential Premier of Ontario, that's fine. I disagree.

You say these sort of things are not in question, I am reading there is a video and pictures.....is this what you are referring to?
Do no politicians or people with influence go into bars for a drink or socializing?

 

[Luce NDs]

30-year-old MPs who troll bars, looking for 19-year-olds is creepy. When you're 19, 30-year-olds are old. When you're a politician, it's worse because you are in a position to hire these kids. It shows remarkable lack of judgment. That's before you take his behaviour with them alone into account.

And they say there are no creeping conspiracies in silence ... once know as unspoken-of plots ... schemes?

 

[revsdd]

Where did you get the information that he "trolled bars" looking for 19 year olds?


You say these sort of things are not in question, I am reading there is a video and pictures.....is this what you are referring to?
Do no politicians or people with influence go into bars for a drink or socializing?

Good grief. Of course politicians can go into bars with people. So can clergy and anybody else in Ontario who's 19 or older. And I didn't say that he trolled bars looking for 19 year olds. That was chansen. But given this incident. it's a reasonable assumption.

In this case, Patrick Brown met an 18 year old girl. After chatting with her on a plane trip, a couple of hours later he sent her a creepy private pickup message on Facebook. CTV saw the message and reported its content. In the same message, he offered to use his influence to get the underage girl into local Barrie bars. He then invited the 18 year old girl to a drinking party at his house where she got drunk. There are pictures to confirm that she was there and drinking.

Patrick Brown was a Member of Parliament in his 30's. He was in a position of influence and respect. You honestly believe that showed good judgement? You honestly believe that he showed the judgement and character we should expect from a guy who wanted to be Premier of Ontario? A guy who in this one incident demonstrated a willingness to use a position of much lesser stature to try to pick up an 18 year old and get her drunk at bars and parties? You honestly believe he should be given a pass just because there's no proof of criminal behaviour? Seriously?

What shocks me is that a lot of people are getting fixated here simply on the issue of whether Brown committed sexual assault and are apparently unconcerned about his judgement and behaviour and how that reflects on his character and his suitability to hold positions of influence - including elected office.

 

[Waterfall]

Good grief. Of course politicians can go into bars with people. So can clergy and anybody else in Ontario who's 19 or older. And I didn't say that he trolled bars looking for 19 year olds. That was chansen. But given this incident. it's a reasonable assumption.

In this case, Patrick Brown met an 18 year old girl. After chatting with her on a plane trip, a couple of hours later he sent her a creepy private pickup message on Facebook. CTV saw the message and reported its content. In the same message, he offered to use his influence to get the underage girl into local Barrie bars. He then invited the 18 year old girl to a drinking party at his house where she got drunk. There are pictures to confirm that she was there and drinking.

Patrick Brown was a Member of Parliament in his 30's. He was in a position of influence and respect. You honestly believe that showed good judgement? You honestly believe that he showed the judgement and character we should expect from a guy who wanted to be Premier of Ontario? A guy who in this one incident demonstrated a willingness to use a position of puch lesser stature to try to pick up an 18 year old? You honestly believe he should be given a pass just because there's no proof of criminal behaviour? Seriously?

What shocks me is that a lot of people are getting fixated here simply on the issue of whether Brown committed sexual assault and are apparently unconcerned about his judgement and behaviour and how that reflects on his character and his suitability to hold positions of influence - including elected office.

Well if you think the concern is about his judgement and behaviour and not necessarily a sexual assault, then wheres the crime? Are moral judgements included?

Here's an interesting article, yes it's from the Star, but some interesting points. I don't agree with everything in it, but an interesting "other " perspective:

Opinion | Patrick Brown’s downfall an affront to fairness