Class war?

Welcome to Wondercafe2!

A community where we discuss, share, and have some fun together. Join today and become a part of it!

Register Log in
PilgrimsProgress

PilgrimsProgress

Well-Known Member
http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/rn/podcast/2018/01/rer_20180110_1730.mp3

The above link is from an Australian radio programme called the Religion and Ethics Report.

Joan C. Williams is speaking about her book "White Working Class" :Cluelessness in America.

It raises an issue which is often overlooked - the different cultural needs of lower middle class and the upper middle class that are prosperous, well-educated -and largely ignorant of the plight of the lower middle-class.
Amongst other points, it makes it very clear why so many lower middle-class folks in middle America voted for Donald Trump.

But, unless you can hear the podcast -via the above link - this post won't "work".

Any techie here that can find a way to put the podcast here for me, please?
 
It should work for most people. Just click/tap the link and it should start streaming in your default media player. Or you can right click and download/save link (on a Windows PC). On an Android, you can download by pressing and holding, then choosing Download Link from the menu that appears. Someone else will have to comment on how to handle it on Apple computers and devices. Not my department.:)
 
Last edited:
Co incidence?

From my present reading into Northrup Frye and the lost history of myths, schemes, plans and theme that the thesaurus states is a metaphor for conspiracy; does the lack of information in the lower class work it way into the upper class causing flips of belief about Peace and War? What's best for an overpopulated world lacking an indeterminate factor ...

If you know log it in the coded record ... real people don't wish to hear of it ... splash of overload? Why some fall off the wagon ... edge of world view assists that unseen point and the circumference thereof ... but don't speak of it to authorities ... they are instituted to not hear of it ... tis Eve'n constitution of psyche empiric ... all people carry this robed La Dies ! Be dead ath 'vem eis .. can evolve to venom ... as found deep in satyrs ... which left a' gape in the shock of understanding that we are our own worst enemies ... and the celestial co media ... is that we refuse to know ... thus that dark void that can be seen as a Ba 'tore a Nightingale ... a dark abstract to drink in ... perhaps we shouldn't fear anything as all is a fabricated histoire!

Started on an upended rock face in Greece .. when people began to mimic the others pain of life and the tragedy was born ...
 
Last edited:
Just for the following to, pride of what we don't know:



Can you find the hidden icons there as a direction in spinning space of the world view ?

There is evidence hidden there of the idea of a rye soul being deep in an unknown pool ...

Now back to the normal field as it lies ... Lacy indeed ... delicate!
 
Mendalla said:
It should work for most people. Just click/tap the link and it should start streaming in your default media player. Or you can right click and download/save link (on a Windows PC). On an Android, you can download by pressing and holding, then choosing Download Link from the menu that appears. Someone else will have to comment on how to handle it on Apple computers and devices. Not my department.:)
Click to expand...

Thanks, Mendalla! (There are two stories covered - I'm referring to the first one.......)
 
It's a conversation that I've had with my fellow over the years. He has lived most of his life poor, usually well below the poverty line. I consider myself to be working class, but always had a union job that paid me better than the poverty line, at least. When he thinks of "fat cats", he's not thinking or talking about the 1 or 2% - he's talking about ANYONE with a union job. He figures that it's unions keeping the lowest class down...
 
BetteTheRed said:
It's a conversation that I've had with my fellow over the years. He has lived most of his life poor, usually well below the poverty line. I consider myself to be working class, but always had a union job that paid me better than the poverty line, at least. When he thinks of "fat cats", he's not thinking or talking about the 1 or 2% - he's talking about ANYONE with a union job. He figures that it's unions keeping the lowest class down...
Click to expand...

It always is dependant on the perspective ... from above or below that non-existent line ...
 
Part of the problem with "identity politics", where you speak to issues involving the white middle class, or certain ethnic groups, nobody seems to get that they are just victims of a pricey marketing scam and target marketing to teach their representative what to say, to ensure that the leader of their party gets elected. (which is the only reason they want to identify their market...how bold to say it out loud) Does anyone think Donald thought up the phrase, "Let's Make America Great Again"? The players are different but the game is the same.......and that's what needs to change more than anything IMO.
It's time the Presidents (and Prime Ministers) start being put on probation for 1 year before their job is secured....and their performance is evaluated.....just like the working class.
 
Sorry, generally those of us in real world positions get 3 months to prove ourselves. Why would they get more?

I would love to see some sort of "have you got your s**t together" benchmark...
 
What Joan Williams is saying is that most folks say that they're middle class - but there's an increasing gap between the lower middle class and the well-educated technical folks which could be defined as an upper middle-class.

Forget for a moment the top 2% - the upper middle-class are in the top 20% - and their culture and aspirations are very different from what is termed also middle America or the working poor.
An example she gave is that, whilst the top 20% women were impressed with Hilary Clinton's aspiration to "break through the glass ceiling"
the working poor would rather live, as their mother's lived, -with a husband being the breadwinner and them as housewives. (If you spend your working life cleaning up after guests in a cafeteria or hotel, and then come home to more cleaning and more housework, who can blame them?) AND you can still barely afford to pay the rent........

Hilary's glass ceiling isn't even on the radar for these women.
They feel, rightly, that the top 20% seem clueless about their lives and struggles - and prefer to focus on the plight of specialist minority groups such as refugees and LGBT rights.
Williams doesn't hesitate to say she supports these humanitarian justice issues - it's just that the focus has become too narrow.
In many western countries the working poor are an increasing number - and the more their needs are ignored the angrier and more disillusioned they will become with the democratic process. (Why do you think huge numbers for Trump?)
 
Finally got the chance to listen when I wouldn't be distracted. I don't know about Australia, but I think Canada differs from the US largely in terms of education, and I think that's a good thing.
Some of my opinions would fit in with being snobby according to the speaker but I'm confused why it's a bad thing to have expectations of skill.

I've said it before - someone who is supporting their family/themselves shouldn't be making minimum wage. There are exceptions to this - the very young who end up supporting their family, immigrants, people who have to switch what they are doing due to a variety of reasons and people with certain types & severities of disabilities. My reasoning for this is that by the time someone is at the age where they are working for a living they should have a skill. This doesn't need to be university, it can be college/technical school or a school that focuses on a particular certification. It doesn't have to be a school either where the skill comes from, there are plenty of skills that can be learned on the job, from someone else, etc.

Some thoughts that Canada does well with this in comparison to the US - easier movement of class from one generation to the next, public schools, different school programs, post secondary costs, scholarships/bursaries, EI for students, specific programs, ie MCAT. Will expand upon when I shouldn't be getting to bed!
 
Raising a family and keeping the house in order involves numerous learned skillsz, including multitasking. I've met a number of people, most of whom are men (and maybe a few women but I only can think of those who are men right now) , who don't know how to do laundry, don't know 'how' to clean house properly (but they're not incapable), don't have basic cooking skills.

I remember a friend of mine...who is married to a decent, friendly guy, but patriarchal and takes a lot for granted - he could be more helpful at home...she was up at 10:30 pm, on the phone with me, folding laundry while sitting up in bed, on the phone, husband snoring away...she had two young kids and her day was filled with chores from before 7 a.m. to after 10, daily. It slowed down with the kids at school, sort of...but then I guess more upkeep was expected because they bought a bigger house...it was assumed she could do more cooking and baking (which she fortunately likes), get more involved with the school,planning social activities, and keep up an image of upper-suburban perfection, like it was 1955. All of that is work. Hard work, imo. She didn't have paid helpers. Think of all the women who do all this and have 9-5 jobs. Double (or triple) duty - it is not right.

Nobody should be poor, either. Doing the jobs, like cleaning rich people's toilets...that others won't do, should pay a living wage. All paid work should be a living wage. If you can't live off of any full time job, it's slavery. And, those who are homeless, even...I have noticed...work bloody hard to just stay alive.
 
Last edited:
when I was 18, I went to Calgary for awhile, and my aunt and uncle (actually second cousins of my mom's - but I thought of them as aunt and uncle), went on vacation, and left me in charge of house sitting/ babysitting, my 4 cousins. It was kind of "boot camp". I think it was only for two weeks, but I was frazzled. One of my cousins was my age, the others about 16 and 13, but boys, and not expected to help. My female cousin was about 10, and the baby of the family. She didn't have any chores either. I made 3 meals a day for, and cleaned up after, all of us. I had a full list, my aunt left me - of what to do from early in the morning, to late at night...no time to think. No time for myself. only time to meet my friends if they met me on route to do grocery shopping or something. It was not much fun. The house was lovely...but maybe that experience subconsciously put me off of being a good house mother/ housewife. I guess I wasn't meant for it. But it involves skills, and hard work, without a doubt!
 
Last edited:
BetteTheRed said:
Sorry, generally those of us in real world positions get 3 months to prove ourselves. Why would they get more?

I would love to see some sort of "have you got your s**t together" benchmark...
Click to expand...

No ... know that others carry out the s**t ... alternate truth ... falls lies ...
 
Middle class appearance is just an impression ... not really true as V'Ire Tues ... them's beyond us like in the ethereal mine shafted ... legacy of chasing the greatest ...

After Ayres-in maybe the stink 'll blow out ...

Remember they're just stinking words ... limited people hate excessive literature ...
 
ChemGal said:
Finally got the chance to listen when I wouldn't be distracted. I don't know about Australia, but I think Canada differs from the US largely in terms of education, and I think that's a good thing.
Some of my opinions would fit in with being snobby according to the speaker but I'm confused why it's a bad thing to have expectations of skill.
Click to expand...
The speaker makes the point that the two groups or classes are culturally different. The upper middle-class look to expectations, whilst the lower middle-classes look to self-discipline as the best way to manage their lives. That's because money is their major concern - not for them expensive lunches or breakfasts, let alone overseas holidays.
In other words expectations are just as remote as breaking through glass ceilings to middle America.

Perhaps there are many in this category in Canada (and I know there are in Australia) that you are not aware of?
 
Kimmio said:
when I was 18, I went to Calgary for awhile, and my aunt and uncle (actually second cousins of my mom's - but I thought of them as aunt and uncle), went on vacation, and left me in charge of house sitting/ babysitting, my 4 cousins. It was kind of "boot camp". I think it was only for two weeks, but I was frazzled. One of my cousins was my age, the others about 16 and 13, but boys, and not expected to help. My female cousin was about 10, and the baby of the family. She didn't have any chores either. I made 3 meals a day for, and cleaned up after, all of us. I had a full list, my aunt left me - of what to do from early in the morning, to late at night...no time to think. No time for myself. only time to meet my friends if they met me on route to do grocery shopping or something. It was not much fun. The house was lovely...but maybe that experience subconsciously put me off of being a good house mother/ housewife. I guess I wasn't meant for it. But it involves skills, and hard work, without a doubt!
Click to expand...

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top