Who Inhabited the World First? Satan or Humans?

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JRT ---Your Quote -----The Bible as a human creation is a legitimate object of human scholarship. I approach the Bible like a prospector would approach his claim. I am prepared to spend a lot of time and effort searching for the shining nuggets of wisdom and insight but I am also prepared to have to shift a lot of rubble in order to find them.



your belief is your belief -----do as you will ----and good luck to you ----as I keep saying we will all know the real truth when we die and go before God ----

This below is what I personally believe and I personally allow the Holy Spirit to direct me in my reading od God's word ----I am quite content in my life so I will keep on keeping on relying on the Holy Spirit for all my direction in scripture and in my life ------

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Neo ----your quote ----- I suppose it's better than your condemnation of me into hell because I don't believe the dead letter of the Bible like you do.

unsafe says
This is my reply to you Neo in my post #73-----
Neo ---
What you believe now is your belief ---you will know if your belief is the right belief when you die ----so good luck with your belief ----

Show me where my condemnation is for you going to hell is in my reply above ----- I mention nothing about Hell in my reply -----you yourself are inserting the word hell here not me -----------I said this ----you will know if your belief is the right belief when you die ----and Neo that is the Real Truth -we will all go before God in the end to give account of our lives ------

Your Quote Neo-----I don't believe the dead letter of the Bible like you do.---

unsafe says
God says His letter isn't dead Neo -----His scriptures are alive and active according to God -----that is what I believe -----Note this my statement to you -------------if you want to believe the letters are dead that is OK by me ----- your one loosing out on the promises and Blessings that Jesus paid our price to access -----Jesus lives today Neo and Jesus is the word according to God's word ----The Word became Flesh and gave His life so all could reconnect back to God and be rid of Satan in our life ---just because you don't believe in a Satan as a Spiritual being who is the god of this world in no way does that make it not so ---that is just your own belief and you are entitled to it -----just like I am entitled to believe the Truth which is God's word ----

God Loves you Neo even in your unbelief that God's word is alive and active today -----But your unbelief doesn't change God's Word ----it says what it says ----and you or I can't change the words -----I can't send anyone to hell Neo and Get This neither does God ----we humans send ourselves there us blaming others or God is being a coward to take responsibility for our own beliefs and rejecting God's ---

Hell was in place for Satan and his partners in crime --it was NEVER meant for people ---but we people became disobedient all on our own ----God didn't and doesn't Coerce anyone into Hell ---we Humans all by ourselves are doing a fine job of putting ourselves in the position to go there ------

Satan's job is to keep people on the path to go there ----But he can't make you go there either --

It is the person choice to go there ---we can change the direction our lives are going in if we want to ------ But we have to want to -----

unsafe posted scripture

00-end-time-bible-prophecy-word-of-god-is-alive.jpg
--we have free choice --can't blame God or Satan ---
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Our Choice to Believe or Not ----if you or others want to dispute God's word then Go right ahead ------it is OK by me ----
 
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I love it when you post this one. It looks like the stick figure is taking a dump on the bible and running away.
 
Some people believe that God is dead on with the word as corrupted by various monarKISS'd ... bussed by great desire and not too many Q'loos ... one must get into the fertile areas too see what's under it!
 
Hi,

First remembering that in the ancient Hebrew texts and traditions 'satan' was a common noun signifying the principle of accusation. Zechariah 3 presents a splendid metaphor of the dynamic at work.

The high priest is in the holy of holies. His white linen garments are hopelessly soiled by the sins of the people. Satan accuses and demands payment. God rejects the accusation. An angel is told to take away the filthy garment. Then to replace it with a clean white garment. A last instruction has the angel place a crown on the high priest's head. The high priest's name is Joshua. Unsafe will be able to tell us what this word means in the Hebrew.

Now thinking to the latter day Christians. These profess that the all loving God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. All the while insisting that this God requires blood sacrifice to be appeased. Remember Abraham and the God who compelled him to sacrifice the fruit of Sarah's womb. Then the divine intervention. The son's blood is not required. A goat will do.

The blood of that goat began a temple practice. The selling of atonement to finance the temple economy and those persons who profited by serving that economy diligently. Doves, lambs and goats. By their blood cleansing the sinner in the sight of God.

This till Jesus began revealing by word and deed the all inclusive love of God requiring no blood sacrifice. Those who appreciated his insight and commitment began to follow in his way, inspired by the spirit of God revealed in him. For this they were arrested, tortured and murdered. This in the name of the God confined in the temple (the book in our day).

In my youth Jeremiah occupied a fair portion of my imagination. One day God tells Jeremiah to separate the precious from the vile. This is the task noted by JRT above. Those who approach this task with disciplined intent will not be disappointed.

George
 
Hi,

First remembering that in the ancient Hebrew texts and traditions 'satan' was a common noun signifying the principle of accusation. Zechariah 3 presents a splendid metaphor of the dynamic at work.

The high priest is in the holy of holies. His white linen garments are hopelessly soiled by the sins of the people. Satan accuses and demands payment. God rejects the accusation. An angel is told to take away the filthy garment. Then to replace it with a clean white garment. A last instruction has the angel place a crown on the high priest's head. The high priest's name is Joshua. Unsafe will be able to tell us what this word means in the Hebrew.

Now thinking to the latter day Christians. These profess that the all loving God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. All the while insisting that this God requires blood sacrifice to be appeased. Remember Abraham and the God who compelled him to sacrifice the fruit of Sarah's womb. Then the divine intervention. The son's blood is not required. A goat will do.

The blood of that goat began a temple practice. The selling of atonement to finance the temple economy and those persons who profited by serving that economy diligently. Doves, lambs and goats. By their blood cleansing the sinner in the sight of God.

This till Jesus began revealing by word and deed the all inclusive love of God requiring no blood sacrifice. Those who appreciated his insight and commitment began to follow in his way, inspired by the spirit of God revealed in him. For this they were arrested, tortured and murdered. This in the name of the God confined in the temple (the book in our day).

In my youth Jeremiah occupied a fair portion of my imagination. One day God tells Jeremiah to separate the precious from the vile. This is the task noted by JRT above. Those who approach this task with disciplined intent will not be disappointed.

George

Thus man kynd was E-Goad'ted ... without bean go'ted by the story ... would the myth have got on?
 
Neo ----your quote ----- I suppose it's better than your condemnation of me into hell because I don't believe the dead letter of the Bible like you do.



unsafe says

This is my reply to you Neo in my post #73-----

Neo ---

What you believe now is your belief ---you will know if your belief is the right belief when you die ----so good luck with your belief ----



Show me where my condemnation is for you going to hell is in my reply above ----- I mention nothing about Hell in my reply -----you yourself are inserting the word hell here not me -----------I said this ----you will know if your belief is the right belief when you die ----and Neo that is the Real Truth -we will all go before God in the end to give account of our lives ------
No you did say anything about condemnation, I thought maybe you would've said more about what I said early about the involutionary and evolutionary arcs and our place in those arcs, but I suspect you didn't understand it. It's ok, it's not for everyone.

Your Quote Neo-----I don't believe the dead letter of the Bible like you do.---



unsafe says

God says His letter isn't dead Neo -----His scriptures are alive and active according to God -----that is what I believe -----Note this my statement to you -------------if you want to believe the letters are dead that is OK by me ----- your one loosing out on the promises and Blessings that Jesus paid our price to access -----Jesus lives today Neo and Jesus is the word according to God's word ----The Word became Flesh and gave His life so all could reconnect back to God and be rid of Satan in our life ---just because you don't believe in a Satan as a Spiritual being who is the god of this world in no way does that make it not so ---that is just your own belief and you are entitled to it -----just like I am entitled to believe the Truth which is God's word ----

There are many warnings in our scripture about reading the Bible literally, i.e. to the dead letter. Paul suggest in 2 Corinthians 3:6 that the real New Testament is not one of the letter, "for the letter killeth" but rather one of the Spirit. See also 16 Scriptural Reasons NOT to take the Bible Literally!



Without the wisdom which lay in and behind the literal words, the words mean little. You accused me of being ignorant of scripture but really it's a matter of how we differ in our interpretation of scripture. I suspect that most of your beliefs are restricted to the outer and most mundane interpretation of the Bible , i.e. the "orthodox" and "generally accepted" interpretations. Which is fine, I understand why people have their own views and beliefs, we're all at different standings in life. Eventually the orthodox beliefs catch up with the new beliefs, but today is not one of those times. Yet.



I personally believe that we've been hoodwinked by western religion in the last two thousand years. The real truth, I believe, is so lost in our churches and institutions now that we don't even what we've lost. Our dogmas have us so afraid that, for instance, just the consideration of a doctrine like that of reincarnation or karma can cause us to "lose our way". 'It's the devil's work' they'll tell you. And God forbid that Christians ever talk about the constellations or the stars in relationship to God because we all know that astrology is an occult art that should never even be thought of, let alone entertained and investigated. But the irony with astrology is that it's all through the Bible, from Genesis to Revelations. I doubt if there's a page in the Bible that has doesn't have some astrological reference on it. But to see this one has to look in and behind the symbols in the Bible. Christ appeared 2,000 years when the Sun "appeared" to be passing into Pisces, the Sign of the Fish. Christ knew this and that He would always be with us, "even unto at the end of the age", see Matthew 28:20. He hinted at when he would reappear, again at the end of the age when He told his disciples to look for the man with a pitcher of water and wait for Him there for the great passover. See Luke 22:10 and Mark 14:13. "Follow that man into the house that he enters" which is where we are today, at the dawning of the age of Aquarius, the Man Bearing the Pitcher of Water. All of this is highly symbolic and was put into the Bible for a reason. The evidence is right in front of us but orthodox Christian religion refuses to see it or accept it.

So is it with the Bible being the only word of God. Clearly in John 1:15 where it's written that the "Word became flesh", it is not referring to a written scripture, especially one that hadn't even been written yet. The concept of the "Word" is in all likelihood of Hindu origin as in the sacred, three syllable word "AUM". In the esoteric teachings each letter this Word represents respectively the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. In the Hindu religion the syllables of the great AUM represent Brahma the Creator, Vishnu the Preserver and Shiva the Destroyer. Three sounds in One and One sound in Three, a Trinity of forces as fundamental to creation as the trinity of the Atom being made of the Proton, the Neutron and the Electron. Now whether the early authors of Bible knew about this Holy Hindu Word or if God gave them a unique vision of the same, it doesn't matter, we have now two great cultures sharing the same concept of the Word.



God Loves you Neo even in your unbelief that God's word is alive and active today -----But your unbelief doesn't change God's Word ----it says what it says ----and you or I can't change the words -----I can't send anyone to hell Neo and Get This neither does God ----we humans send ourselves there us blaming others or God is being a coward to take responsibility for our own beliefs and rejecting God's ---

Yes, God is Love. In fact, says the ancient wisdom, the Solar Logos, the God of this System, is the Heart Centre of an even Greater Being. Like a Great Heavenly Man stretching out across space, our Sun is the Heart Centre.



Hell was in place for Satan and his partners in crime --it was NEVER meant for people ---but we people became disobedient all on our own ----God didn't and doesn't Coerce anyone into Hell ---we Humans all by ourselves are doing a fine job of putting ourselves in the position to go there ------

Satan's job is to keep people on the path to go there ----But he can't make you go there either --

I'm not sure about that "God didn't and doesn't' coerce anyone into hell". In many ways we're in hell now, trapped in space and time like Prometheus destined to repeat his hell while chained, day after day, to a rock, hoping and praying for a saviour like Hercules to break him free.

Satan's job is to continue to build the forms that are we are to inhabit in time and space. We are, as physical beings with physical bodies, very much subject to time and space. (Obviously) There are many corollations between Satan and Father Time. Think about this. Hell is like the circumcision of the eternal. Only through sacrifice and service can we ever have hope of release from this bond.

It is the person choice to go there ---we can change the direction our lives are going in if we want to ------ But we have to want to -----

Yes, I totally agree with you on this point.

Unsafe, I don't mean to antagonize you with stories of Astrology, Vishnu and Hercules, I do so because we can all learn so much from our myths and the fables and allegories of other religions. I thought maybe you could learn something, (doesn't it ever get boring high-fiving other Christians with the same ideas?). There is a silver lining of truth running through all our religions, it's up to us, as JRT said above, to prospect for the shiny nuggets in each of them, and string them all together. These are the silver and the gold lined nuggets of wisdom. But then again, perhaps I'm just casting pearls that no-one will see...
 
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No you did say anything about condemnation, I thought maybe you would've said more about what I said early about the involutionary and evolutionary arcs and our place in those arcs, but I suspect you didn't understand it. It's ok, it's not for everyone.



There are many warnings in our scripture about reading the Bible literally, i.e. to the dead letter. Paul suggest in 2 Corinthians 3:6 that the real New Testament is not one of the letter, "for the letter killeth" but rather one of the Spirit. See also 16 Scriptural Reasons NOT to take the Bible Literally!



Without the wisdom which lay in and behind the literal words, the words mean little. You accused me of being ignorant of scripture but really it's a matter of how we differ in our interpretation of scripture. I suspect that most of your beliefs are restricted to the outer and most mundane interpretation of the Bible , i.e. the "orthodox" and "generally accepted" interpretations. Which is fine, I understand why people have their own views and beliefs, we're all at different standings in life. Eventually the orthodox beliefs catch up with the new beliefs, but today is not one of those times. Yet.



I personally believe that we've been hoodwinked by western religion in the last two thousand years. The real truth, I believe, is so lost in our churches and institutions now that we don't even what we've lost. Our dogmas have us so afraid that, for instance, just the consideration of a doctrine like that of reincarnation or karma can cause us to "lose our way". 'It's the devil's work' they'll tell you. And God forbid that Christians ever talk about the constellations or the stars in relationship to God because we all know that astrology is an occult art that should never even be thought of, let alone entertained and investigated. But the irony with astrology is that it's all through the Bible, from Genesis to Revelations. I doubt if there's a page in the Bible that has doesn't have some astrological reference on it. But to see this one has to look in and behind the symbols in the Bible. Christ appeared 2,000 years when the Sun "appeared" to be passing into Pisces, the Sign of the Fish. Christ knew this and that He would always be with us, "even unto at the end of the age", see Matthew 28:20. He hinted at when he would reappear, again at the end of the age when He told his disciples to look for the man with a pitcher of water and wait for Him there for the great passover. See Luke 22:10 and Mark 14:13. "Follow that man into the house that he enters" which is where we are today, at the dawning of the age of Aquarius, the Man Bearing the Pitcher of Water. All of this is highly symbolic and was put into the Bible for a reason. The evidence is right in front of us but orthodox Christian religion refuses to see it or accept it.

So is it with the Bible being the only word of God. Clearly in John 1:15 where it's written that the "Word became flesh", it is not referring to a written scripture, especially one that hadn't even been written yet. The concept of the "Word" is in all likelihood of Hindu origin as in the sacred, three syllable word "AUM". In the esoteric teachings each letter this Word represents respectively the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. In the Hindu religion the syllables of the great AUM represent Brahma the Creator, Vishnu the Preserver and Shiva the Destroyer. Three sounds in One and One sound in Three, a Trinity of forces as fundamental to creation as the trinity of the Atom being made of the Proton, the Neutron and the Electron. Now whether the early authors of Bible knew about this Holy Hindu Word or if God gave them a unique vision of the same, it doesn't matter, we have now two great cultures sharing the same concept of the Word.





Yes, God is Love. In fact, says the ancient wisdom, the Solar Logos, the God of this System, is the Heart Centre of an even Greater Being. Like a Great Heavenly Man stretching out across space, our Sun is the Heart Centre.





I'm not sure about that "God didn't and doesn't' coerce anyone into hell". In many ways we're in hell now, trapped in space and time like Prometheus destined to repeat his hell while chained, day after day, to a rock, hoping and praying for a saviour like Hercules to break him free.

Satan's job is to continue to build the forms that are we are to inhabit in time and space. We are, as physical beings with physical bodies, very much subject to time and space. (Obviously) There are many corollations between Satan and Father Time. Think about this. Hell is like the circumcision of the eternal. Only through sacrifice and service can we ever have hope of release from this bond.



Yes, I totally agree with you on this point.

Unsafe, I don't mean to antagonize you with stories of Astrology, Vishnu and Hercules, I do so because we can all learn so much from our myths and the fables and allegories of other religions. I thought maybe you could learn something, (doesn't it ever get boring high-fiving other Christians with the same ideas?). There is a silver lining of truth running through all our religions, it's up to us, as JRT said above, to prospect for the shiny nuggets in each of them, and string them all together. These are the silver and the gold lined nuggets of wisdom. But then again, perhaps I'm just casting pearls that no-one will see...

As a second concern though ... this could be considered a þ' AUM'r ... or post to the Cloes fisted and mean soled traveller that doesn't go far from the tight points ! Blow to the Solar þ' Lexus? Could be an enlightened dictionary in looser traditions ...
 
Neo
unsafe says and posted scripture

It is pointless for us to keep conversing ---we will never agree and we will never be on the same page when it comes to God and His word ----

We will both know the Real Truth when we die -----

I leave you with these scriptures ----which I believe is the truth ----cause the word says it is ----


1 Corinthians 1:18 (CEB)

Human wisdom versus the cross
18 The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are being destroyed. But it is the power of God for those of us who are being saved.


This scripture we can all learn from and practice much on this sight in my view ------


2 Timothy 2:14 (AMPC)
14 Remind [the people] of these facts and [solemnly] charge them in the presence of the Lord to avoid petty controversy over words, which does no good but upsets and undermines the faith of the hearers.


d365.gif
---in your belief as I am in mine :)
 
Some people learn from the words of the alternates and some just take them as opposition to be put-down!

Thus heavenly subtleties ... often poorly understood by the hard cases ... they just can't move or motivate those already out of it ...
 
Neo
unsafe says and posted scripture

It is pointless for us to keep conversing ---we will never agree and we will never be on the same page when it comes to God and His word ----

We will both know the Real Truth when we die -----

I leave you with these scriptures ----which I believe is the truth ----cause the word says it is ----


1 Corinthians 1:18 (CEB)

Human wisdom versus the cross
18 The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are being destroyed. But it is the power of God for those of us who are being saved.


This scripture we can all learn from and practice much on this sight in my view ------


2 Timothy 2:14 (AMPC)
14 Remind [the people] of these facts and [solemnly] charge them in the presence of the Lord to avoid petty controversy over words, which does no good but upsets and undermines the faith of the hearers.


d365.gif
---in your belief as I am in mine :)
I understand, but know this: you don't have to wait until you die. Seek and you will find.
 
Neo --your quote -----you don't have to wait until you die. Seek and you will find

unsafe says ---
Depends on which Truth you seek and find ----then believe and follow -----the sheep Truth or the goats Truth

believers will be on the right -----unbelievers on the left ------which side will you be on is the question -----

Matthew 25:34 (GW)
Jesus Will Judge the World

34 “Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, my Father has blessed you! Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the creation of the world.


41Then the king will say to those on his left, ---unsafe says ------you can read the rest of this sentence for yourself at link provided if you so desire -----
Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 25 - GOD’S WORD Translation

----
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The religious hucksters who have pushed these beliefs have separated people from their ability to reason, not to mention their wallets. If you insist you know a god, and this god wants you to believe in his book and no other book, and the threat is that "you'll see when you die," then the person selling this idea should be laughed out of the room.

Go sell fear somewhere else, and take your stupid book with you.
 
But unsafe, your theology is a fear-based one. There are sheep, there are goats, one should be afraid of being 'judged' a goat.
 
But unsafe, your theology is a fear-based one. There are sheep, there are goats, one should be afraid of being 'judged' a goat.

Why? In modern sports parlance, G.O.A.T. stands for "Greatest of all time." :)

Keep this in mind: for Jesus, exorcisms of "Satan" (demons) are what establishes the presence of "The Kingdom of God." So a rejection of "Satan" is a rejection of Jesus' central teaching.
(2) Also keep in mind the evidence for the existence of the demonic, for example, like that provided in the video I posted on the real exorcism behind the movie "The Exorcist." This evidence includes:
(a) psychokinesis: e. g. levitation, objects in the room being moved or thrown by an unseen hand,,
(b) messages written in blood on the possessed victim's body by unseen hand
(c) the victim's speech in languages unknown to him/her
(d) the victim's superhuman strength
(e) the victim's demonstration of clairvoyance
(f) the victim's eyes rolling up so that only the whites are visible (This happened to my cousin, now a psychiatrist, when he was just 3 years oldl)
(g) Most of all (but only for the eyewitnesses present), the overwhelming sense of pure evil and hate.

(g) is what convinced Dr. Scott Peck, a psychiatrist, of the authenticity of demonic possession. He writes that the first 2 cases of possession presented to him were misdiagnosed standard psychiatric disorders, adding, "I was already cutting notches in my scientific pistol." Then Peck began to encounter the real thing and it changed is life and worldview.
 
BetteTheRed ----your quote ----But unsafe, your theology is a fear-based one.

No BetteTheRed ---You are so wrong here -----Your Theology might be fear based -----What I follow which is called The Way is not fear based at all ---it is very much Loved Based and Freedom based and there is no fear in following The Way only Love comes from The Way which I follow ----



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Why should one be afraid?

Well, assuming that one believes in Hell, which I assume unsafe does, the fate of the goats is made pretty clear. In fact, Ms. Unsafe coyly refused to copy that part of the verse, but invites us to read about eternal punishment should we need a warning. How is this not fear-based?
 
When in a state of pure centred love one is too stunned to fear ... now if the love is radiated ... one begins to empathize ... a real worry for the others rather than concern about when to bury them!
 
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