Who Inhabited the World First? Satan or Humans?

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Waterfall said:
There are many stories we can create when we need to fill in the blanks.
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I don't think we *need* to fill in the blanks, but we hate not knowing (so I guess we do need to fill them in). We really do prefer any answer to no answer at all. Satan fills a hole about the source of evil in the world. It doesn't hold water, but it does hold people's attention, and that's all they want. When the real answer is probably as boring as "some people can be complete dicks," then Satan is far more interesting and something to rally against, making Satan almost a teaching aid. You don't want to be like Satan, do you, kids?


Waterfall said:
Another would be to wonder why we were placed on an obscure ball in the universe surrounded by an abyss with no oxygen, and of all creatures, Satan (or evil )is allowed to share this space with us. We are supposedly watched by the Creator and the only "way out" is to be randomly chosen.
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"Placed" isn't correct because we evolved here, but we have evolved to ask existential questions. We have not evolved to care about getting a bulls**t answer in response. We just need an answer. And to me, that's the unfortunate thing. I wish we cared about answers being demonstrably true, or even plausible. Especially when the bulls**t answer tries to paint the people who don't believe it as evil.
 
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What does one label dark, unseen angels ... "Gabriel" as mysterious to the wrestle with Jacobeans?

Such dark knowledge can cause some Christians to stumble and wobble with distaste for Jaco Beans ... as jumped up things ... especially in the UK with there distaste for Cell Tics ... parasitic beings that the Monarchy depended upon for members ...

Thus the spin on tyranny and oily fissures ... that break between England and Ireland where Merlin resided off that famous causeway ... constructed from rising hexagonal forms from the deeps of the mire (earth, dirt) and why one should know parallel understandings and c
 
chansen said:
I don't think we *need* to fill in the blanks, but we hate not knowing (so I guess we do need to fill them in). We really do prefer any answer to no answer at all. Satan fills a hole about the source of evil in the world. It doesn't hold water, but it does hold people's attention, and that's all they want. When the real answer is probably as boring as "some people can be complete dicks," then Satan is far more interesting and something to rally against, making Satan almost a teaching aid. You don't want to be like Satan, do you, kids?



"Placed" isn't correct because we evolved here, but we have evolved to ask existential questions. We have not evolved to care about getting a bulls**t answer in response. We just need an answer. And to me, that's the unfortunate thing. I wish we cared about answers being demonstrably true, or even plausible. Especially when the bulls**t answer tries to paint the people who don't believe it as evil.
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Ignorance is not bliss for an ethereal few?
 
I don't believe in a personage called "Satan", but rather see the latter as simply representing matter and form, which would be, by definition, the opposite of spirit and the formless. Satan is the scapegoat religionists use to excuse their bad behaviour. It's easy when we give into temptation to simply blame the devil. It's much easier to blame something else than being responsible for our own thoughts and actions.
 
Hi,

I understand satan to be a common noun, rather than a proper noun. The spell checker here does not agree, suggesting it to be a proper noun.

I do not think that we are dealing with any objective being when discussing satan. I do recognize the satanic principle at work in our human being. It is our accusation of the other because of difference that has us divided at home as abroad. There is no other once life as life is realized and respected. The life in me is the life in you, as it is the life in every human being in all of time and all of space.

By the principle of accusation, satan, the principle of division find opportunity to prosper. Just now we could be cooperating in the hope of human survival or flourishing. Why then are we fighting over points of view and preference?

George
 
That's a nice metaphor, GeoFee, thank you so much.

Satan as the impulse to division rather than union.
 
Yes, there are many unanswered questions about alleged demonic activity. But before you dismiss the demonic as merely a metaphor for human evil, consider the real possession and exorcism that inspired the famous horror movie "The Exorcist." The documentary posted below covers the key historical events:

behind the movie the exorcist the real - Bing video

Father Bowdern, the Jesuit exorcist in question, was a friend of Father Alphonse, a professor colleague of mine when I was a Theology professor at a Catholic university. Father Alphonse learned of this case before it became public on a blow-by-blow basis and shared it with me. I can anticipate some reactions here already and am reminded of Jack Nicholson's shouted line on the witness stand in the movie "A Few Good Men:" "You can't handle the truth!" If you do watch the documentary, pay particular attention to the paranormal manifestations that attest the case's authenticity. I have been exposed to cases involving my family and church members that echo the ordeal documented in the video.
 
Mystic said:
Yes, there are many unanswered questions about alleged demonic activity. But before you dismiss the demonic as merely a metaphor for human evil, consider the real possession and exorcism that inspired the famous horror movie "The Exorcist." The documentary posted below covers the key historical events:

behind the movie the exorcist the real - Bing video

Father Bowdern, the Jesuit exorcist in question, was a friend of Father Alphonse, a professor colleague of mine when I was a Theology professor at a Catholic university. Father Alphonse learned of this case before it became public on a blow-by-blow basis and shared it with me. I can anticipate some reactions here already and am reminded of Jack Nicholson's shouted line on the witness stand in the movie "A Few Good Men:" "You can't handle the truth!" If you do watch the documentary, pay particular attention to the paranormal manifestations that attest the case's authenticity. I have been exposed to cases involving my family and church members that echo the ordeal documented in the video.
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Yeah
This particular case is big in Fortean circles
I've investigated enough into it to be freaked out by it :eek:
I heard when it came out in theatres it traumatized some people. This was in the days before movie ratings.
It also reminds me of a bunch of other things, like the "alien abduction" phenomenon. One common experience the people who have had these experiences claim to have is intense fear when in the presence of these...agents? Beings?
And we know really so little aboot the world. Why not there being flora and fauna, agencies with their own wants and desires and abilities who are at least as old as humanity and may older? And maybe observant people in the past have met these agents and learned what they want or need?
Too much fun.
 
Waterfall -----your quote here ------Not sure how offering fruit to Adam and Eve off the tree of Life is guarding it?

Don't know if I am reading this wrong or if your confused as to the tree Satan offered Eve the fruit from ------The tree of live was available for Adam and Eve to eat freely from ----it is the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil that God told them not to eat from -----they are to different trees

If they had of ate from the Tree of Life before Satan came on the seen they would have remained connected to God forever ----they chose not to touch the fruit of that Tree ----so Satan saw his chance to move in on the forbidden Tree ----

After Satan deceived Eve and she got Adam to eat the fruit -----God had to protect the Tree of Life as they would have remained in their fallen state forever ----That is why God had to kick them out of the Garden ---God was actually protecting them from Spiritual death forever by keeping them away from the Tree of Life ----

I could be reading your quote wrong but just wanted to clarify ------


tree_of_life_fruit_of_Spirit_.349182247_std.JPG
 
Some people are demonized by varied trees ... especially knowledge and wisdom ... some the joylessness because they are not allowed the dancing on the edge of the line to see how the alternate is behaving ...
 
unsafe says
Any one who thinks Satan is a mere metaphor is playing right into Satan's hands -----this is what he wants people to think ------and he is laughing all the way to his soul bank to make his deposit of every human that believes he doesn't exist or is just a metaphor ---

I had seen first hand what demonic forces can do in my own home in the 1980's ---that is how I came to accept Christ into my life ---blackbelt has also had personal experience with demonic activity -----I never believe in this sort of thing until I personally experienced it -----after the Padre came and did an exorcism in my home all activity stopped -----


2 more movies that were put out that were inspired by true events ----

The Rite ----where the Priest became possessed himself ----
The Rite: The Story Behind the Film

Then there is the true story of The exorcism of Emily Rose --
http://www.moviesonline.ca/real-story-anneliese-michel-exorcism/-------

Whether the word Satan is a noun or pronoun a verb or anything else ---He is an angel and Angels are spirit beings -----they are not just metaphors ---Lucifer became Satan ----according to scripture ----

unsafe posted this from got questions ----
What does the Bible say about angels?

"What does the Bible say about angels?"

Answer: Angels are personal spiritual beings who have intelligence, emotions, and will. This is true of both the good and evil angels (demons). Angels possess intelligence (Matthew 8:29; 2 Corinthians 11:3; 1 Peter 1:12), show emotion (Luke 2:13; James 2:19; Revelation 12:17), and exercise will (Luke 8:28-31; 2 Timothy 2:26; Jude 6). Angels are spirit beings (Hebrews 1:14) without true physical bodies. Although they do not have physical bodies, they are still personalities.

unsafe says and posted scripture

Jesus was Tempted and Satan according to scripture took him different places -----if Satan is not a real Spiritual being how did he manage to take Jesus up yo the holy city ----


Matthew 4 ---- 5 Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, 6 and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written:


As mystic points out above here ----Yes, there are many unanswered questions about alleged demonic activity. But before you dismiss the demonic as merely a metaphor for human evil, consider------------unsafe adds ----scripture and what it says about Satan ----













 
Hi,
Waterfall said:
You said in your heart;
I will ascend the to the heavens, I will raise my throne above the stars of God
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This seems relevant to: “Come, let us build for ourselves a city, and a tower whose top will reach into heaven, and let us make for ourselves a name, otherwise we will be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth.” Genesis 11

The first quote suggests the leavening influence of pride. Rather than be content with my place in the natural order I will step out and make a name for myself. In doing so I will take the place of God to become the sole determiner of what is good and what is evil. Those who agree with me will benefit as I rise. Those who disagree with me I will deal with as I see fit. This evokes the image of a tyrant seeking dominance over a population. As such it resonates with our experience of the world just now.

The second carries a similar tone at the outset. This time there is the presence of insecurity. The fear of losing their place if they do not take some definitive action to secure that place. This notices the root of pride as insecurity. Something existential philosophy has noticed as the anxiety of being grown insecure by the realization of non-being. The biblical narrative notices this as the whole world being in bondage to the fear of death. So walls are built to keep death at bay. Walls built between us and that which threatens us.

What we have in the bible is a narrative collection assembled over extended periods of time. The constant seems to be the problem of power exercised by human beings in history. In every age cities are built at the expense of the land and its peoples. Those cities grow until they reach a critical limit. At that point the laws of nature intrude to overcome human audacity, rooted in human insecurity, and restore the natural balance. This natural balance is expressed metaphorically as: "God saw that all of creation was very good."

Now the temptation narrative comes into view. Human beings are in a balanced relationship with the natural order. An order not in any way subject to human determination. An order requiring diligent respect for the boundaries in place as the forces of nature. Violation of those boundaries leads to negative consequence. Metaphorically expressed: "If you eat the from that tree you will surely die." The temptation being: "You may eat of the that tree if you desire. You will not die. You will become like God."

All to say we err in departing from the natural order to contemplate the rise of an artificial order. This departure is spelled out in the grounding philosophies of the modern epoch. We have been led to believe that the natural is nothing more than a resource by which our human desire may be realized. So we have set about building a world in which our will is sovereign. The consequence of this error is now in full view. Hubris as the opening for Nemesis.

George
 
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There are demonic forces and there is an angelic being known as "Lucifer", but religion is sadly mistaken in assuming there is a personfied being known as "Satan"
ready to steal your soul for all eternity.
 
Neo said:
...religion is sadly mistaken in assuming there is a personfied being known as "Satan" ready to steal your soul for all eternity.
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Do you feel there's a personified being known as "Satan" but that he isn't ready to steal souls for all eternity, or do you rather feel that there simply isn't a personified being known as "Satan"?
 
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