Sunday is coming...Crossing teh Red Sea

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Have you ever considered that the crossing of the Red Sea symbolized the crossing from the Age of Taurus to the Age of Aries? The timing wasn't right on the cusp, as it's thought to have occurred around 1300 BC, but the symbolism is very much there. First of all, Aries, the sign of the Ram or the Lamb, marks new beginnings as it literally defines the Spring equinox. Moses led his people, in true Aries fashion, out of Egypt, but found that the people couldn't let go of the bull worship, even though the Sun hadn't been in the Taurus for 700 years. During the time of Christ, the signs of the zodiac lined up perfectly with the constellations of the zodiac and the Sun passed from the Age of Aries into the Age of Pisces, the sign of the two fish. And even then, people were still performing bull sacrifices, two thousand years after that age.

I know it's not very orthodox to talk in such terms but the facts are there. Despite one's personal beliefs in astrology, the Bible is full of astrological references which simply can't be denied. Christ himself told us that he would be with us "until the end of the age", which many Christians have interpreted as meaning the end of the world.
 
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crazyheart said:
can you explain?
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I believe the closest wording to use would be to say they are Jewish Christians. ALthough I am not sure where they stand on Resurrection, because if Yeshua is the promised MEssiah (although he fulfils almost none of the expectations without radical redefinition) that does not require him to be resurrected. A crucified and resurrected messiah is a Christian thing, not Jewish.
 
Neo said:
Have you ever considered that the crossing of the Red Sea symbolized the crossing from the Age of Taurus to the Age of Aries? The timing wasn't right on the cusp, as it's thought to have occurred around 1300 BC, but the symbolism is very much there. First of all, Aries, the sign of the Ram or the Lamb, marks new beginnings as it literally defines the Spring equinox. Moses led his people, in true Aries fashion, out of Egypt, but found that the people couldn't let go of the bull worship, even though the Sun hadn't been in the Taurus for 700 years. During the time of Christ, the signs of the zodiac lined up perfectly with the constellations of the zodiac and the Sun passed from the Age of Aries into the Age of Pisces, the sign of the two fish. And even then, people were still performing bull sacrifices, two thousand years after that age.

I know it's not very orthodox to talk in such terms but the facts are there. Despite one's personal beliefs in astrology, the Bible is full of astrological references which simply can't be denied. Christ himself told us that he would be with us "until the end of the age", which many Christians have interpreted as meaning the end of the world.
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It is another interpretation and an intriguing one in some regards, but I have a feeling GordW isn't going to preach that one in a United Church and he'd likely be facing some questions if he did unless his congregation is really, really progressive. Though I think we could set up some kind of dare to see what would be enough to get him to try. :D

To be honest, for all our openness, even many UUs would have a hard time with that one, though for different reasons.
 
I will only share the story of the one Messianic Jew I personally know. She's a friend, a member of my church, and a fellow student in my seminary cohort.

She was adopted as a baby and raised by loving Hindu parents. Later in life, she became a Christian, and joined the Baptist church. Then she had a test done which revealed she was Jewish. She now attends both my Baptist church, and a Messianic Jewish synagogue. She identifies herself as Jewish, and Christian.
 
wonderful midrash/perspectacles riff, folks, thanks (y)

the red sea is also a pretty awesome geologically-active region, where former continental crust is turning to ocean crust and spreading apart, just like where brandspankin New Earth is being created at the mid-ocean ridges

and part of that massive rift-system (which includes the red sea, the jordan rift system, and the great rift valley which travels through Eritrea, Djibouti, Ethiopia, Somalia, Kenya, Uganda, Tanzania, Malawi, Mozambique, Zambia, Democratic Republic of Congo, Rawanda, and Burundi) is where humanity is theorized to have 'began', in Olduvai gorge, Tanzania -- another romantic metaphor, where new earth is being created, we all were born/came from (garden of eden?)

usgs.gif

(image source:usgs)

also along this rift system are certain lakes that have mysteriously killed the local human populations -- people have died by giant sodapop inundation :eek:

an overview of the formation of the red sea

an active volcano near the gate of grief

a tour of the african rift valley

in Ethiopia, there are some gorgeous ancient Christian churches that I've wanted to visited since the first time I saw them in a book...they are carved out of solid lava -- they look quite stark on the outside, but on the inside they are magical

one of the places the Ark of the Covenant is supposed to be is by the Church of Our Lady Mary of Zion in Axum, Ethiopia.

theories abound as to the Plagues in Egypt -- one of them tries to tie them in with the eruption of Thera/Santorini somewhere between 1550 BCE and 1650 BCE; that eruption was one of the global-affecting kinds; it supposedly wiped out the minoans


nature giveth, nature taketh away...
but for the grace of nature go i
 
Mendalla said:
It is another interpretation and an intriguing one in some regards, but I have a feeling GordW isn't going to preach that one in a United Church and he'd likely be facing some questions if he did unless his congregation is really, really progressive. Though I think we could set up some kind of dare to see what would be enough to get him to try. :D

To be honest, for all our openness, even many UUs would have a hard time with that one, though for different reasons.
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I didn't post this as a suggestion for GordW's sermon, I was just saying... that's all. And I'm also not suggesting the story happened or it didn't, I was merely saying that this story is yet another biblical story that reflects the fact that the Sun "appears" to pass through all the signs of the zodiac once every 26,000 years. The Bible is full of such allegories and if Moses did write the first five books of the Old Testament then he did so with the knowledge gained from the Egyptian religion.
 
Moses did not write the Torah. ANd while there may be things borrowed from other traditions throughout Scripture (syncretism is often present even if not acknowledged) I think you overstate your case. It all depends on the lenses you choose to use to read the text.
 
GordW said:
Moses did not write the Torah. ANd while there may be things borrowed from other traditions throughout Scripture (syncretism is often present even if not acknowledged) I think you overstate your case. It all depends on the lenses you choose to use to read the text.
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Yes, I may have overstated my case, a little, even if Moses did write the Tora. But the fact remains that there are many "borrowed traditions" from other religions in all of the Bible, especially that of the Egyptian and the Hindu.
 
Hindu? Mesopotamian for sure, Egyptian pretty certainly, some Greek, but Hindu? Got a cite for that (preferably an academic one, not just some new age guru)?
 
Neo said:
http://www.academia.edu/4540206/Brahma_and_Abraham_Divine_Covenants_of_Common_Origin
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Interesting hypothesis but largely based on textual analysis so some of it is stretching and it's hardly proof. Some archaeological support would be nice but we don't even have any archaeological support for Abraham's existence IIRC. Still, at the very least, that textual analysis does suggest one could make a case for early Jewish writing picking up some influences from India even if some of the other suppositions of the author are really stretching further than could be supported from the analysis.
 
Mendalla said:
Interesting hypothesis but largely based on textual analysis so some of it is stretching and it's hardly proof. Some archaeological support would be nice but we don't even have any archaeological support for Abraham's existence IIRC. Still, at the very least, that textual analysis does suggest one could make a case for early Jewish writing picking up some influences from India even if some of the other suppositions of the author are really stretching further than could be supported from the analysis.
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Hi, I'm Rainbow Warrior - the Author of Abraham and Brahma. I agree that I did stretch a bit on the suppositions. It took about a week of research, so it is a very early draft. Any suggestions? Peace
 
Neo said:
http://www.academia.edu/4540206/Brahma_and_Abraham_Divine_Covenants_of_Common_Origin
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No, I'm not a new age guru :) But my research is an early draft. I am wondering what came first, the Torah or the Vedas? Not in a competitive sense, but rather to understand how they complement one another. What does the Hebrew Bible mean in praising the wisdom of the East? Who is Brahma in his human form? Is Abraham the first spiritual Adam? Many questions and so little time to research...... :)
 
Welcome to Wondercafe2! It's not often we get someone cited in a thread coming in to join the discussion.

It's quite interesting, Rainbow Warriors, and I would be interested in seeing where you go with it. I'm not an expert, just someone with a background in ancient history and a course on Hinduism (which was very influential in developing my worldview). I think you've hit on a very interesting area. I am just rather suspicious of anything whose sole basis is textual analysis and such like. That kind of analysis tells you a direction to go but I think you need some solid historical evidence (you do have some of that) and archaeology to really give a solid basis for arguing for an historical hypothesis.
 
Rainbow Warriors said:
No, I'm not a new age guru :) But my research is an early draft. I am wondering what came first, the Torah or the Vedas? Not in a competitive sense, but rather to understand how they complement one another. What does the Hebrew Bible mean in praising the wisdom of the East? Who is Brahma in his human form? Is Abraham the first spiritual Adam? Many questions and so little time to research...... :)
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I'm pretty sure the Hindu religion came before the Judaic religion. Good questions, btw.
 
Neo said:
I'm pretty sure the Hindu religion came before the Judaic religion. Good questions, btw.
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Actually, it may not have. While it is rooted in older traditions (the Vedas and Upanisads), Hinduism as we know it today dates to around the same time as the Buddha or even later, IIRC.
 
Mendalla said:
Actually, it may not have. While it is rooted in older traditions (the Vedas and Upanisads), Hinduism as we know it today dates to around the same time as the Buddha or even later, IIRC.
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I was referring to the ancient roots of Hinduism, where the concept of Brahma originated.

From wiki: "Hinduism is often regarded as the oldest religion in the world, with roots tracing back to prehistoric times, over 5,000 years ago. Over time, Brahmanism gradually became Hinduism."
 
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