Talking to God Through Jesus

[Mendalla]

I disagree.

Two people are lost at sea, one finds a life preserver and says look! Salvation, grab hold! The other says, no thank you, then swims off murmuring how prideful the guy resting on his life preserver is.

Pride goeth before the drowning.

IF that is the attitude being expressed, fine. It's a concern for the other person. That's not always how it comes across, though.

And there is one problem with your analogy: Drowning at sea is a pretty clear risk and all agree on that. No one is likely to refuse a life preserver unless they are totally out of it or they are doing it so it can be offered to someone else.

When you're dealing with "salvation", not everyone sees the same risk or sees the risk in the same way. Some don't believe in the need for salvation at all. Some don't believe in salvation by faith (e.g. a Calvinist wouldn't even use the life preserver analogy, but would perhaps see God as a search & rescue tech pulling us from the sea). There's probably some other possibilities that I'm leaving off.

 

[Jaebius]

IF that is the attitude being expressed, fine. It's a concern for the other person. That's not always how it comes across, though.

And there is one problem with your analogy: Drowning at sea is a pretty clear risk and all agree on that. No one is likely to refuse a life preserver unless they are totally out of it or they are doing it so it can be offered to someone else.

When you're dealing with "salvation", not everyone sees the same risk or sees the risk in the same way. Some don't believe in the need for salvation at all. Some don't believe in salvation by faith (e.g. a Calvinist wouldn't even use the life preserver analogy, but would perhaps see God as a search & rescue tech pulling us from the sea). There's probably some other possibilities that I'm leaving off.

An extreme Calvinist wouldn't, true. Moderate Calvinists like myself would.

 

[Delightful Life]

Do we need to pray through Jesus in order to talk to God? Why?

Or can we just go straight to God? If so why do we need to pray or worship Jesus?

And don't forget our Christian Conference Calls
Ty Christian wifi
HS rulez!!!

LA DI DAH!!!

 

[crazyheart]

This is a wonderful thread. Thank you.

I have another question but I think I will start another thread.

 

[unsafe]

Mendalla your quote ----- Some don't believe in salvation by faith

Then what does that person do with this scripture -----

Ephesians 2:8-9New International Version (NIV)

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works so that no one can boast.

How can a person be saved when they don't believe that faith is needed -------this blows my mind -----are they really saved that is the question ---

God's word says it is truth ----people who say they can be saved with no faith needed to my mind is bearing false witness to what the scriptures say -----

 

[Jaebius]

How can a person be saved when they don't believe that faith is needed -------this blows my mind -----are they really saved that is the question ---

One must have faith in their faith?

 

[Delightful Life]

Mendalla your quote ----- Some don't believe in salvation by faith

Then what does that person do with this scripture -----

Ephesians 2:8-9New International Version (NIV)

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works so that no one can boast.

How can a person be saved when they don't believe that faith is needed -------this blows my mind -----are they really saved that is the question ---

God's word says it is truth ----people who say they can be saved with no faith needed to my mind is bearing false witness to what the scriptures say -----

James 2:17 ?
Man this is too complicated lol
Jesus, got the Cliff Notes?

 

[unsafe]

Jae ----your quote ----One must have faith in their faith?

 

[Jaebius]

Jae ----your quote ----One must have faith in their faith?

You said one must believe (have faith) in their faith.

 

[Northwind]

You said one must believe (have faith) in their faith.

Still clear as mud.

 

[Jaebius]

Still clear as mud.

Clearer than your non-existent answer about the double standard.

 

[Northwind]

Don't hold your breath on an answer about am alleged double standard. I've said all that I'll say.

 

[Mendalla]

Mendalla your quote ----- Some don't believe in salvation by faith

Then what does that person do with this scripture -----

Ephesians 2:8-9New International Version (NIV)

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works so that no one can boast.

How can a person be saved when they don't believe that faith is needed -------this blows my mind -----are they really saved that is the question ---

God's word says it is truth ----people who say they can be saved with no faith needed to my mind is bearing false witness to what the scriptures say -----

No idea. Ask someone who believes it. As always, there seem to be multiple ways of reading the texts and some manage to get sola fides out of it and some manage to get sola gratia out of it. What matters, to my mind, is not whether one or the other is correct but how they use their beliefs in engaging with the world and each other.

 

[unsafe]

This statement from above post ------there seem to be multiple ways of reading the texts ---

unsafe says
this is a cop out statement in my view ------

Just how many multiple ways can this text be read ----

Seems pretty clear and easy to understand to me ----not rocket science -----don't need a seminary degree ----pretty straight forward ----


Ephesians 2:8-9New International Version (NIV)

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works so that no one can boast.

We are Saved by Grace THROUGH Faith -------Period ----

 

[BetteTheRed]

This statement from above post ------there seem to be multiple ways of reading the texts ---

unsafe says
this is a cop out statement in my view ------

Just how many multiple ways can this text be read ----

Seems pretty clear and easy to understand to me ----not rocket science -----don't need a seminary degree ----pretty straight forward ----


Ephesians 2:8-9New International Version (NIV)

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works so that no one can boast.

We are Saved by Grace THROUGH Faith -------Period ----

That would be fine, unsafe, if there weren't texts that contradicted this one. James clearly thinks that faith without works is dead.

 

[Pontifex Geronimo 13]

There is no contradiction.
Both statements can be true at the same time.

 

[revsdd]

That would be fine, unsafe, if there weren't texts that contradicted this one. James clearly thinks that faith without works is dead.

In what way is that a contradiction?

 

[unsafe]

BetteTheRed ---your quote ----That would be fine, unsafe, if there weren't texts that contradicted this one. James clearly thinks that faith without works is dead.

The works of true saving Faith BetteTheRed is evident in the transformation of life ----the Old is gone --the New is put on ---obedience to God is the mark and works of Saving Faith ------the person who claims to be a Christian but lives in willful disobedience to Christ has a false or dead Faith and is not really saved ----People take James out of context and say that our works will make us righteous before God and we are saved ---and I think that is what your implying ---This is False Doctrine -----Good works from Faith comes from having Christ in us and God directing our good works to give Him the Glory -----Putting our Faith into action is being obedient to God's will and what He wants us to be doing in helping others and community ---

Carnal Christians is a good example of people who say they are saved but live and breath and remain focused on this world's system willfully remaining doing sinful acts not doing God's will but doing what society and this world says is right -----They are trying to Mix the 2 worlds ---and God clearly states ---You Can't Serve 2 Masters ------

James describes the 3 types of Faith ----and 2 are dead faith ---The only living Faith to bring about good fruit from our works is Saving Faith --and it is obtained by Grace through our Faith that Jesus died for our sins and was resurrected to give us eternal life ----

 

[Ritafee]

Exactly. Stop taking the easy way out by simply lowering your head and putting your hands together. Go out there and kill some livestock. Put some effort into it.

Why just kill it when you can torture it first ... vivisection is much more lucrative.

Vivisections 'traditionally' respected place in modern medicine results in secure financial support.

Medical centers receive tens of millions of dollars annually in direct grants for animal research ...

and tens of millions more for overhead costs that are supposedly related to that research.

Vivisection's morality is rarely questioned by researchers, who choose to 'dogmatically' defend the practice.

IE, they 'sacrifice' animals rather than kill them and rarely acknowledge pain or other suffering.

Animal researchers' ethical defense is 'supposed human benefits' and 'the ends justify the means'.

In the 'publish or perish' world of academic science, vivisection requires little originality or insight.

Take an already well-defined animal model, change a variable, obtain 'new' and 'interesting' findings in a short period of time.

Infinite possible manipulations offer researchers opportunity to 'prove' any theory that serves their economic, professional, or political needs.

IE, researchers have 'proven' in animals that cigarettes both do and do not cause cancer - depending on the funding source.

Source: The Truth About Vivisection

 

[Waterfall]

Back on topic please