Talking to God Through Jesus

[revjohn]

Presuming the Trinity is a valid construct one cannot presume that simply because one does not access God through the person of the Son that God has not been actually accessed. The Son may not be The Father or The Holy Spirit. When God is addressed it isn't like a secret is being kept from either The Son or The Father or The Holy Spirit as if the Trinity is a dysfunctional family that refuses to talk.

Phrases like, "in Jesus' name" are not an invocation which give power to prayers which might otherwise lack.

They can be a reminder as to why we are doing what we find ourselves doing. In that they help us to centre on prayers that are less about our wishes and more about our desire to operate in concert with the Rabbi we are disciples of.

I routinely initiate prayers to God The Father (not always using that language) and will tie those prayers up with invocations of The Son (usually in a Redeeming capacity) and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit. That is more stylistic than it is incantation.

I am mindful that many Prophets offered prayers to God without invoking the name of Jesus and their prayers were heard as easily as any prayer I have offered up deliberately referencing Jesus have been.

If we take seriously the scriptures in which Jesus claims, "I and the Father are one" then no prayer involving Jesus can fail to get to the Father and no prayer offered to the Father comes as a surpirse to the Son.

If we think Jesus intercepts every prayer and only allows through those which properly reference his name then we have reduced Jesus to a tyrant who cares not at all about the substance of the prayer just its ego stroking capacity. I think Jesus is more together than that.

 

[revsdd]

Just wondered if it becomes a form of idol worship by not focusing on God and using Jesus as a mediator, similar to how we sometimes "honour" the cross?

A mediator is not an idol. Having said that, I believe that Jesus is fully divine. Therefore, praying TO Jesus would not be idol worship, although it would be an unusual prayer formula without any New Testament support. The cross (since it isn't divine) certainly can become an idol.

 

[Jaebius]

But that is exactly why you would pray "in the name of" rather than "to". "In the name of" does not put Jesus in the position of "God" but in the position of mediator or intercessory. Just as Catholics who follow the cults of saints or The Virgin don't seen them as "God" but as intercessors. Much like Steven describes in his response to you:

I sometimes pray to Jesus. I believe Jesus is God.

 

[Waterfall]

A mediator is not an idol. Having said that, I believe that Jesus is fully divine. Therefore, praying TO Jesus would not be idol worship, although it would be an unusual prayer formula without any New Testament support. The cross (since it isn't divine) certainly can become an idol.

Is Jesus the only mediator for God?

 

[chansen]

I fill in when he's on holiday.

 

[Waterfall]

Phrases like, "in Jesus' name" are not an invocation which give power to prayers which might otherwise lack.

Ironically, for years I thought that was what I was doing when I prayed in Jesus' name.

 

[Waterfall]

If we think Jesus intercepts every prayer and only allows through those which properly reference his name then we have reduced Jesus to a tyrant who cares not at all about the substance of the prayer just its ego stroking capacity. I think Jesus is more together than that.

If we don't have to use Jesus as mediator, do we still have to believe in Him other than that He existed on earth?

 

[unsafe]

In my opinion

Jesus died and shed His Blood for us to be in right standing with God ----the only right we have to approach God in prayer is through the shed blood of His Son who died for us so that through the Son we are able to make our prayers heard ----

Praying is a heart attitude issue -----praying in Jesus name has authority and power because of the Shed Blood --- in my view ----

Anyone can say a prayer to God but does God hear that is the issue ---what is the point of praying to God and He doesn't hear that prayer -----does it just make us feel good that we prayed so we can says I pray every day ----does it give Glory to God or the one praying -----

We have no right to come to God in prayer on our own -----we are disobedient sinful humans ----Why do we think we can just come to God on our own merit ----we Come Before God in Christ standing not our standing ---we deserve nothing from God on our own ------He sent His Son so we could come to Him and ask in His merit ----

Yes-- we can pray and not say in Jesus name if we don't want to -----God does give us free will ---In the Old Testament God the Father dealt directly with His People ----not so today ----through Jesus who died and shed His Blood for us is our pleas heard today and only with right motives and attitudes of our heart ----this of course is just what I believe ----



Just saying the words-- in Jesus name-- without recognizing the deeper meaning behind the name being put forth in prayer --in my view means nothing ---

 

[Waterfall]

In my opinion

Jesus died and shed His Blood for us to be in right standing with God ----the only right we have to approach God in prayer is through the shed blood of His Son who died for us so that through the Son we are able to make our prayers heard ----

Praying is a heart attitude issue -----praying in Jesus name has authority and power because of the Shed Blood --- in my view ----

Anyone can say a prayer to God but does God hear that is the issue ---what is the point of praying to God and He doesn't hear that prayer -----does it just make us feel good that we prayed so we can says I pray every day ----does it give Glory to God or the one praying -----

We have no right to come to God in prayer on our own -----we are disobedient sinful humans ----Why do we think we can just come to God on our own merit ----we Come Before God in Christ standing not our standing ---we deserve nothing from God on our own ------He sent His Son so we could come to Him and ask in His merit ----

Yes-- we can pray and not say in Jesus name if we don't want to -----God does give us free will ---In the Old Testament God the Father dealt directly with His People ----not so today ----through Jesus who died and shed His Blood for us is our pleas heard today and only with right motives and attitudes of our heart ----this of course is just what I believe ----



Just saying the words-- in Jesus name-- without recognizing the deeper meaning behind the name being put forth in prayer --in my view means nothing ---

Do you then believe that those who may never have had the opportunity to have heard about Jesus but have prayed to God sincerely, are not being heard by God?

 

[revjohn]

If we don't have to use Jesus as mediator, do we still have to believe in Him other than that He existed on earth?

According to scripture there is only one mediator between God and humanity and that one is the man Jesus. It strikes me that Christ's death on the cross is the best mediation humanity can hope for in dealing with God (bearing in mind I am looking through decidedly Christian lenses).

If I think that action is not mediation enough and I need to Jesus check every prayer I offer up for something obvious and undeniably Jesus I have failed to be held in the grip of grace and spend more energy looking at meeting the demands of some legalism with a Jesus veneer.

Jesus, being one person of the Trinity, how can I go to God without involving God The Son on some level. The Father and The Son are one even if I don't acknowledge The Son. Texts warn that if we deny the Son before humanity we face the very real prospect of the Son denying us before God. Is denying Christ the same as not invoking Christ's name when we seek forgiveness of sin? I am not convinced that it is. Others probably believe differently.

 

[Jaebius]

 

[crazyheart]

I don't believe Jesus is God so I pray to God.

 

[revsdd]

Is Jesus the only mediator for God?

Christian Scripture says that he is. Christian Scripture also says clearly that Jesus came/was sent for the world. The real question to me would be the implications of that for people of other faiths. I can simply say that I have found Jesus to be a sufficient mediator, and would bear witness to him on that basis at the very least. I feel that nothing more is needed than Jesus. What is added other than Jesus is simply that - an addition. Additions can be positive or negative.

Do you then believe that those who may never have had the opportunity to have heard about Jesus but have prayed to God sincerely, are not being heard by God?

I know you addressed this comment to unsafe, but just to chime in - surely God "hears" everything. The issue is not whether or not God hears. The issue is how God chooses to respond.

 

[Waterfall]

I don't believe Jesus is God so I pray to God.

As do many on this site, and still some will say that you have been made aware that He is the son of God and have rejected this, so you will not be saved......how do you answer to this? In other words, what is your basis for believing what you believe to be true?

 

[revsdd]

I don't believe Jesus is God so I pray to God.

I prefer to say that Jesus is fully divine rather than that Jesus is God. The difference - to me - is subtle but meaningful. Although I will say without hesitation that Jesus is God incarnate (ie, God living out a human life with all of its experiences, both positive and negative.) To me, that is the ultimate display of divine love for creation - that God would choose to be a part of the creation rather than to stay separate from the creation.

 

[Jaebius]

...surely God "hears" everything. The issue is not whether or not God hears. The issue is how God chooses to respond.

"The Lord will not hear me if I hold on to sin in my heart" - Psalm 66:18 (NLV).

 

[Waterfall]

Christian Scripture says that he is. Christian Scripture also says clearly that Jesus came/was sent for the world. The real question to me would be the implications of that for people of other faiths. I can simply say that I have found Jesus to be a sufficient mediator, and would bear witness to him on that basis at the very least. I feel that nothing more is needed than Jesus. What is added other than Jesus is simply that - an addition. Additions can be positive or negative.


I know you addressed this comment to unsafe, but just to chime in - surely God "hears" everything. The issue is not whether or not God hears. The issue is how God chooses to respond.

Does the Bible tell us how He would choose to respond?

 

[Northwind]

Just saying the words-- in Jesus name-- without recognizing the deeper meaning behind the name being put forth in prayer --in my view means nothing --

Thanks for your clear post unsafe. I like this part. I think we do need to recognise the deeper meaning in any prayer we pray.

I don't believe that we are inherently bad or sinful. That view of the world has been the source of much abuse and oppression. Abuse and oppression in the name of God is never good. While I believe a belief/faith in Jesus and God is or can be transformative, I know that sometimes that transformation takes time. For whatever reason.

I do not believe that we have to go through Jesus to get to God. Jesus can show as a way to know God.

 

[Seeler]

I believe that the followers of Jesus saw God's spirit shining within him.
Jesus prayed to God.
Jesus taught his followers to pray to God.
Jesus taught that prayer should be a private communication between the person doing the praying and God.
Unless I am leading prayer in a group or a congregation I seldom use words - not spoken words, often not even words formed in my mind. If I do become aware of using words, they are usually simple words or short phrases, not long flowery compositions. Words like -- Why? Help me? Thank you. Wow! Tell me what to do. Heal my child. Forgive me. Give me strength. Guide me.
And no, while I don't have anything against it, I don't consciously pray in Jesus name.

 

[Waterfall]

I prefer to say that Jesus is fully divine rather than that Jesus is God. The difference - to me - is subtle but meaningful. Although I will say without hesitation that Jesus is God incarnate (ie, God living out a human life with all of its experiences, both positive and negative.) To me, that is the ultimate display of divine love for creation - that God would choose to be a part of the creation rather than to stay separate from the creation.

So Jesus became the perfect example, the bar so to speak, of what we are to attempt to reach....but he wasn't God but more like a projection or something of Himself?