God as Father?

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Jae said:
I believe God sometimes brings into our lives what seem like disasters, in order to bring us into a state of better obedience to him.
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Isn't that another form of creating robots through submission? Where's the free will in that?
 
Jae said:
I believe God sometimes brings into our lives what seem like disasters, in order to bring us into a state of better obedience to him.
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WHich would be a highly manipulative way of acting. Borderline abusive.

Maybe God is no longer in total control (I am open to debate whether that is because God's power is limited or because God has chosen to limit God's power to control)
 
GordW said:
WHich would be a highly manipulative way of acting. Borderline abusive.

Maybe God is no longer in total control (I am open to debate whether that is because God's power is limited or because God has chosen to limit God's power to control)
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Gives new meaning to God resting on the 7th day after creation or Jesus saying,"It is finished".
 
Waterfall said:
That's weird, I wouldn't cling to someone who caused a disaster in my life unless I had Stockholm syndrome.
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Hmm... I actually said (new emphasis here), "I believe God sometimes brings into our lives what seem like disasters..."
 
It is all in your definition of evil, is it not?

A volcano by itself cannot be evil. It is a natural phenomenon that has no will or control. In fact, life on Earth would probably be impossible without them due to the contributions they made to creating the atmosphere and hydrosphere. The damage they cause is collateral damage and arguably we are the ones to blame since we could choose not to build around volcanoes while volcanoes cannot choose not to erupt.

However, a human (or other sapient) being causing a volcano to erupt (assuming for a moment it were possible by dropping a bomb down its maw or something) would be evil. They would be knowingly causing massive destruction.

So where does that leave us if we hold that God causes volcanoes?
 
Waterfall said:
So God will use evil if it serves His purpose?
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If you mean will God initiate evil action to serve his purpose I believe the answer is no. It would be difficult for anyone to call others to be holy just as they are holy if, as a matter of fact, they are not holy themselves.

Depending on the translation Isaiah 45: 7 makes God directly responsible for evil.

If you mean will God use what others intended for evil and redeem it to good? Then yes, Genesis 50: 20 testifies to that happening.
 
Waterfall said:
What's the difference? Who created evil?
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It is alla bout administering to the muse-Ique ... h'owls!

God has to use everything other and alternate ... because in heh's elf there's nothing to IDe bu the dark force of persuasion of wild emotions and opinions as stucked in ... it can leave you vacant ...

That drained or emptied feeling like a Louisiana Ba You ... a concern as "ans" go ...

God is a pain in the ass ... while the following devils contemplate the contemptuous consideration of prescient outcomes ... requiring prior consideration of hidden history ... as buried by God's will ... a hidden talent? Most can't grasp it ... thus it is unseen ...
 
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revjohn said:
If you mean will God initiate evil action to serve his purpose I believe the answer is no. It would be difficult for anyone to call others to be holy just as they are holy if, as a matter of fact, they are not holy themselves.

Depending on the translation Isaiah 45: 7 makes God directly responsible for evil.

If you mean will God use what others intended for evil and redeem it to good? Then yes, Genesis 50: 20 testifies to that happening.
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e.g.Sodom and Gomorrah? Giving Satan permission to torment Job? Touching the Ark of God causes Him to kill people? Killing children for calling someone baldy? Isn't this using evil? or in some cases using evil to fight evil, which we are told not to do.
 
Waterfall said:
e.g.Sodom and Gomorrah?
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God's exercising judgment is evil is it?

Waterfall said:
Giving Satan permission to torment Job?
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Setting the bounds of torment. Do we know that apart from this Satan has free reign to test or is kept on a short leash? Is Job not rewarded at the end?

Waterfall said:
Touching the Ark of God causes Him to kill people?
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Are there no rules about touching the Ark of the Covenant? God should look the other way when those rules are broken. Is God so weak that Uzzah needs to keep the Ark from toppling?

Waterfall said:
Killing children for calling someone baldy?
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If those who honour a prophet are given a prophet's reward what should those who disrespect/dishonour a prophet expect?

Waterfall said:
Isn't this using evil?
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Depends on how one chooses to define evil I guess. God keeping God's promises even when the outcomes of those promises is upsetting to others is God honouring God's integrity. Nothing inherently immoral about that.

Waterfall said:
or in some cases using evil to fight evil, which we are told not to do.
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Again, depends on how one defines evil. God probably cares very little for our definitions and since we do not see the entirety of God judging God by a small fraction of activity most likely means we may be very mistaken in our assessment of God's character. Slow to anger and quick to show mercy doesn't mean never gets angry. The Bible exhorts us not to sin in our anger. It does not say anger is a sin.

Does God have the right to judge those who break rules that God has established? Is his judgment fair?

Do we know the laws which bind God to acting in a certain fashion? Is our judgment fair?
 
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