God as Father?

[Luce NDs]

A common fallacy about what we know and what we don't know ... the latter is more dangerous ... unless one can conjure up a thought to take flight ... entitlement regarding Eire in ... mire essence?

 

[Luce NDs]

Where do thoughts go when suppressed by the opinionated?

Is this spot Eire or dry cerulean in nature because heh lost it when deflated by the alternate form ... thus the godhed failed ... with the upping of Eris ... ArIDe storm? Is blues a denied hue ... rare in the earth except in sapphire ... sap' roués pitch? Not likely to adhere to a dragon flyin' amber ... all is chaos due to the double orders ... Caduceus ... tis odd the lack of getting it together ...

Ontological persee ...

To essence you all ... a good smell is the best of sense ... for when the eyes, ears and mouth are covered ... monkey covenant? Don't look Alice ... its heh ...

Hu heh ... the rye one in the marketplace ... smear or a streak in space? Mark on the spot ... the biblical mat thric? Some processing prerequisite ... quintessential to arrive at Seth in text? To put life into what just lies there wishing for penetration? Dialectic personified ... then that oily see of dark hue ... purple? Kohl hue, wha' ...

 

[Delightful Life]

Well maybe...or maybe not....even the stones are crying out.
In the catacombs of Priscilla in Rome, the frescoes (230-240 AD) found there possibly depict women celebrating the banquet of the Eucharist and another shows a woman with outstretched arms like a priest.

The vatican says that these assertions of women as once being priests are "fairy tales"

What do you think?

Like Berzerk was writing aboot showing celebrating the feminine in early Christianity and why has that seemingly changed today? Too bad he was scared off my sombunall people here. Everything can be learned from.

There seem to be multiple denominations. Which means that there are multiple interpretations of theology. Which includes epistemology of male and female and roles and salvation and even hell.

Things look bizarre from the outside of the belief.

Ostensibly every denomination and congregation is there voluntarily. Conservatives value tradition; most of society is conservative otherwise chaos ensues. We Liberals are here to try new things. According to current state of knowledge, conservatives are high in conscientiousness and low in openness while us Liberals are the opposite.

Now try to think of other reasons, more than one, of why a church wouldnt allow women Clerics say that has nothing to do with sexism or repression or (insert identity) priveliege.

If you want to truly try to understand Jae's perspective, that is.

LA DI DAH!!!

 

[BetteTheRed]

"Scared off", lol? Berserk/Mystic still shows up occasionally, pronouncing his wisdom and superiority, waits for the appropriate adoration...and waits...and then leaves.

 

[revjohn]

"Scared off", lol? Berserk/Mystic still shows up occasionally, pronouncing his wisdom and superiority, waits for the appropriate adoration...and waits...and then leaves.

Yeah, scared off doesn't track.

I wouldn't argue with laughed off or chased off. And that, all revolved around a challenge to chanson when Carter was gravely ill. One which was, in the annals of WonderCafe.ca chock full of mind-blowing arrogance and, from where I sat, emotional terrorism. The only thing that could have been lower would have been for him to show up at Carter's funeral and to kick Chanson in the balls while blaming him for Carter's death.

It was probably the most grotesque post the forum has ever seen. Save for the failed justifications of it made after the protests started rolling.

That did lead to some extra-curriculars. Quite frankly if I ever pulled a similar stunt like that here I would be very surprised if I didn't end up hearing about it from any body of oversight.

If the price of his wisdom is that we simply accept him pouring salt into wounds I can pass on that wisdom. It will be available elsewhere for a much better deal.

 

[Mendalla]

If you want to truly try to understand Jae's perspective, that is.

The problem with Jae isn't his perspective. He is quite welcome to be theologically and socially conservative. Unsafe, airclean, and Pontifex are just as conservative as Jae, if not more so, and haven't faced the kinds of issues he has.

It's his attitude and approach. It's his insistence on constantly denying he said things when they are being quoted right in front of him. It's his insistence that he's being bullied whenever someone questions him on his denials or on his positions. It's his self-centred approach that leads him to try to insist on how things should be done or where threads should go and then whine and complain about bullying if the rest of the board doesn't play along.

As for Berserk/Mystic, read John's post above mine. The guy's arrogance in the chansen situation speaks volumes as to why he gets short shrift on here. He seems well-read and has made some interesting posts but his insistence on being right and on lecturing people who disagree with him, even a grieving father, isn't conducive to discussion.

 

[Luce NDs]

Terrorism and brute force in the church?

No calm passions? One has to stop and listen to the silence ... as laid out in the rheids ... it may not be as it appears ...

 

[chansen]

Thanks, guys.

Yes, it got pretty personal between Berserk and myself. He tried to break me and it didn't work. On top of that, I got a boatload of support from the community, and that still means a lot to me.

Berserk/UCCprogressive/studmuffin/Mystic is a failed minister. He has bounced around between small and very small churches for someone with a PhD from Harvard, or Princeton, or wherever. We aren't the only people who can't stand his lecturing, and he was banned from at least one other religion forum. The reason he stays away from us is that I know who he is. A couple council members know as well, so they know when he gets a new username, though I think most of us can spot his posts from a distance. He bragged so much on WC1 that he gave away his identity, so after he claimed I didn't care about my son, I sent a selection of his post history to his supervisor and the United Methodist area bishop. His supervisor tried to get him to take a course on social media. Instead, Berserk retired.

 

[Luce NDs]

Retired is good for brute weals ... they leave marks up the backs of society! Odd what is sometimes supported ...

 

[Delightful Life]

@chansen
Berserk did an evil thing to you
And you are a legend
Lots of character and strength
And I'm glad you are also strong and wise enough to know that words on a page here are meaningless and only have power over you if you let them...all feelings and thoughts come from you in regards to these words...
And even so I was larnin things from Berzerk...

I acknowledge that he left voluntarily

And that when thr shields are up, no matter what Berzerk wrote, none of that info could vet through anymore...

I wasnt trying to chastize anyone

But in my way to be playful and remind those that Berzerk wrote aboot the prevalence of the Divine feminine in Christianity for those who want to look at it...there could have been more but *shrug*

Sorry 4 the derail

LA DI DAH!

 

[Mendalla]

But in my way to be playful and remind those that Berzerk wrote aboot the prevalence of the Divine feminine in Christianity for those who want to look at it...there could have been more but *shrug*

As I said, the guy actually had some good thoughts and ideas at times but his arrogant and confrontational approach, which largely consisted of waving his dic ... er ... I mean doctorate around and belittling anyone who questioned or didn't accept his propositions was simply not going to endear him to anyone on here.

 

[Mendalla]

Now, back on topic. If God as Father is too patriarchal and ties God to a gendered human image and God the Creator is too impersonal, what is the middle ground. What is the image of God that defines God as a creator/parent figure? God the mother simply reverses God the Father and creates similar issues (ties God to a specific human, gendered image) so that can't be it.

Or do we need to do a sort of quantum thing and say that God is both Mother and Father with us seeing the image that we most need to relate to at any given time?

 

[crazyheart]

Bring many names,
beautiful and good,
celebrate, in parable and story,
holiness in glory,
living, loving God.
Hail and Hosanna!
Bring many names!

Strong mother God,
working night and day,
planning all the wonders of creation,
setting each equation
gen-i-us at play:
Hail and Hosanna,
strong mother God!

Warm father God,
hugging every child,
feeling the strains of human living,
caring and forgiving
till we're reconciled:
Hail and Hosanna,
warm father God!

Old, aching God,
grey with endless care,
calmly piercing evil's new disguises,
glad of good surprises,
wiser than despair:
Hail and Hosanna,
old, aching God!

Young, growing God,
eager, on the move,
saying no to falsehood and unkindness,
crying out for justice,
giving all you have:
Hail and Hosanna,
young, growing God!

Great, living God,
never fully known,
joyful darkness far beyond our seeing,
closer yet than breathing,
everlasting home:
Hail and Hosanna,
great, living God!
Brian Wren
Words © 1989 Hope Publishing Company

 

[crazyheart]

Love the above hymn.

 

[Luce NDs]

Yet so many believe they have god in their power and can wail it about to injure others ... bringing them to their knees in submission!

Submit to whom? This is a decent question ... nor for one way intercourse but dialectic ... we've already been screwed about muchly ...

 

[Mendalla]

Love the above hymn.

Not familiar with it. Even a theistic UU could get behind that one. Nothing really Trinitarian in a traditional sense or specifically Christian doctrinally speaking.

 

[revjohn]

Now, back on topic.

Every party needs a pooper. Maybe you'd feel more at home in this thread:
Poop Cafe

If God as Father is too patriarchal and ties God to a gendered human image and God the Creator is too impersonal, what is the middle ground.

Nicely put.

I wonder what we are allowing to define either term by the way. Our experience of one or the other or common expression of the one or the other? That probably can wait for the moment.

One of the things I have appreciated about friend Panentheism and his Process Cheese Theology (thanks EZed) is his insistence that theology, even the best theology, is an approximation. We cannot comprehend the whole of God so any image/description of God must, of necessity, fall short of perfectly summarizing God.

Forcing any one image to hold more of God than it was ever intended to contain will eventually destroy the container or result in much spillage. Work at it long and hard enough and you may accomplish both damage to the container and much spillage. It may be why the best theology requires more room to explain and define unless one finds the right words that expand in just the right ways to capture more than we typically allow language express.

Father/Mother language ties us to the idea that God is personal and relatable. Our experience with mothers and fathers may not make such language an endearment when applied to God. My father, for example, is an alcoholic who decided the bottle was more important to him than family. Must I, because of his failings, assume that God as Father is just as much a drunk as my father was? Am I, because of who my father was, failing to be a father to my children because I have demonstrated more love to them than I have alcohol? Are the questions so ridiculous that they didn't even need to be asked? And if I decide to address God as Mother do I not run into similar issues? Did my mother not marry my father the alcoholic, demonstrating that she either could not see the problem or she thought she would be able to correct it? And after my father is out of the picture my mother hooks up with yet another alcoholic who is far more prone to violence? Is God as Mother just as content to provide a dysfunctional and at times dangerous home for her children? If those questions aren't as ridiculous as the ones asked about using my father as a template for God as father then I clearly do not understand what is meant by the word ridiculous.

Or, if I start with the definitions of mother and father do I not find that God is better at both than my mother and father combined? Is that problematic?

Some people have a hard time with God as person and much prefer God to be something less personable. I suspect that is to alleviate the guilt of disappointing a person. How does one disappoint a force of an energy?

And so economic Trinities were brought forward. Where God is far less a person than God is a notion. God creates, redeems and sustains because none of that is personal I guess.

What is the image of God that defines God as a creator/parent figure? God the mother simply reverses God the Father and creates similar issues (ties God to a specific human, gendered image) so that can't be it.

I doubt that there is any one image which is "The" image. I suspect we are forced with a veritable buffet of "an" images which we combine into a complex and still incomplete image we dare to say is "The" image. It is doubtful we do that loudly and with a great deal of confidence. And those who do, are probably the people we should listen less to because they clearly do not believe there is anything of God beyond their ability to see and comprehend.

Their too small God cannot begin to satisfy.

Or do we need to do a sort of quantum thing and say that God is both Mother and Father with us seeing the image that we most need to relate to at any given time?

I expect this is the way most travelled in the history of God. Otherwise God would not have so many titles and descriptors applied to God. Master of the Universe, Creator of Sea and Sky, the Lord of hosts, Mighty God, Everlasting, Rock and so on and so on.

It is probably well near time that we developed a bit of maturity and realized that there will be no one name and no one qualifier that will speak identically to all people. So you might have a hard time with Master or Lord. So what? I don't and that is how I address God. I might have a problem with however you choose to identify God. So what? If it is what works for you then go for it. I can have a relationship with God even if yours is dramatically different and if your relationship with God suffers just because you can't control how I address God your biggest problem is not your relationship with God but you desire to control me.

 

[chansen]

Weird, flexy God,
can be anything,
shapeshifter and chameleon in one,
can also be his son,
and left or right wing:
Hail and Hosanna,
weird, flexy God!

As soon as I see hymn lyrics, I have to parody them.

 

[revjohn]

As soon as I see hymn lyrics, I have to parody them.

I have the same hobby.

 

[Mendalla]

I have the same hobby.

Yeah, if only atheists parodied hymn lyrics, Christian youth wouldn't have nearly as much fun.

"We three kings of Orient are, trying to smoke a rubber cigar..."