Where Do We Go From Here...?

Welcome to Wondercafe2!

A community where we discuss, share, and have some fun together. Join today and become a part of it!

wait, what? I really am not following your logic, GeoFee. What is the remedy that you are proposing? What is it a remedy for?

Apologies for the lack of clarity. We face a problem. That problem is rooted in our collective determination expressed as democracy. Governments have been elected and those governments have endorsed and encouraged the misuse and abuse of power for the sake of profit. This has led us into a predicament. That predicament has reached critical proportions specific to the integrity of the planet's air and water. These are two key molecular structures foundational to the whole of our biological integrity.

This problem has a remedy. Think of a person addicted to crack cocaine. The addiction brings forward negative health outcomes. Persistence in the addiction brings strong negative consequences. It is only in addressing the addiction and deciding against it that the hope of health and happiness may be restored.

Power is as addictive as crack cocaine. The consequence of misuse and abuse is far reaching. Affecting not only persons misusing and abusing power but also the broad context in which the misuse and abuse is expressed. Tolkien's "Lord of the Rings" trilogy explores the pattern and indicates the way of resolution. The pattern may also be explored by critical inquiry into the exemplars Socrates, Gautama, Confucius, Jesus, and the sages of all times and places.


George

 
This is pretty self-evident, actually. If there weren't the huge profits to be made via alcohol and refined sugar, particularly high glucose corn syrup, there wouldn't be the huge profits from liver and diabetes treatments.
Are you saying that diabetes is caused by consuming refined sugar? By high glucose corn syrup in particular? Being overweight is a risk factor for type 2 diabetes but I don't think you can necessarily blame refined sugar.
 
Are you saying that diabetes is caused by consuming refined sugar? By high glucose corn syrup in particular? Being overweight is a risk factor for type 2 diabetes but I don't think you can necessarily blame refined sugar.
The causal relationship is not direct. We do know that the increase of refined sugar consumption corresponds to an increase of obesity, diabetes and many other manifestations of organic failure to thrive.

George
 
Last edited:

Apologies for the lack of clarity. We face a problem. That problem is rooted in our collective determination expressed as democracy. Governments have been elected and those governments have endorsed and encouraged the misuse and abuse of power for the sake of profit. This has led us into a predicament. That predicament has reached critical proportions specific to the integrity of the planet's air and water. These are two key molecular structures foundational to the whole of our biological integrity.

This problem has a remedy. Think of a person addicted to crack cocaine. The addiction brings forward negative health outcomes. Persistence in the addiction brings strong negative consequences. It is only in addressing the addiction and deciding against it that the hope of health and happiness may be restored.

Power is as addictive as crack cocaine. The consequence of misuse and abuse is far reaching. Affecting not only persons misusing and abusing power but also the broad context in which the misuse and abuse is expressed. Tolkien's "Lord of the Rings" trilogy explores the pattern and indicates the way of resolution. The pattern may also be explored by critical inquiry into the exemplars Socrates, Gautama, Confucius, Jesus, and the sages of all times and places.


George

I do not concur with your arguments.

I, as an individual, can go to a small bake shop, run independently.
I can choose to buy a small treat, enough for each person in our family to have one piece.
I can also choose to buy a few pieces, and we "pig out" on sugar & treats.
Finally, I could choose to go to our local market garden stall, and buy healthy vegetables, and ead a carrot.

In those choices, I am workign with an independent store owner, who is not marketing to me, or getting support from government to drive for power & profit.

I make my choices. I decide if I wish to consume or give.

I make the same choices when I go to buy a car vs take a bus, to have a holiday away vs doing a puzzle at home.
You like to blame the big bad guys. My feeling is that the big bad guys are a small minority, with the majority just being people trying to do a good job for themselves, their peers and their families, and in some cases, the country.

I place more accountability at the foot of the consumer. I suggest that the role of churches is to help present alternatives to consumerism. To help develop a culture where there is more honour in value village buys, than 5th avenue purchases.
 
Hi Pinga,

We are not very far apart on matters of personal choice. Each of us may choose to be a citizen or a consumer. My preference is for citizen. Where the responsibility of citizenship is neglected totalitarian forces will come into play. This is now the case whether the majority accepts it or not. Pretending there is no problem, or that the problem may be resolved by resort to the methods which generated it, will bring no good outcomes. This is simple cause and effect.

Can we leave it at that for now?

George



 
Hi Pinga,

No. I am suggesting that you and I are not likely to agree on key factors in play. We can go on sending sentences if you like. I enjoy shaping them in the hope of making some connection with your side of the conversation. I have no need to do so and am able to let matters rest between us. Other posters may offer insight helpful to each of us going forward. I will watch and add my two cents where it seems fitting.

George
 
Here is Socrates on topic:

"That then is the position I adopt and maintain to be true. If I am right, then it appears that each of us who wants to be happy must pursue and practice self-discipline, and run as fast as our legs will carry us from licentiousness. We must make it our main endeavour not to need correction, but if either he or anyone he is interested in, be they individuals or a whole state, should stand in need of it, correction must be engaged and the cost paid if happiness is to be achieved. This seems to me the goal that one should have in view throughout one's live; we can win happiness only by bending al our own efforts and those of the state to the realization of uprightness and self-discipline, not by allowing our appetites to go unchecked, and, in an attempt to satisfy their endless importunity, leading to the life of a brigand." Plato's "Gorgias"

George
 
@Pinga ... perhaps you can find the 'rainbow' in this clever marketing story as well...

"This is the story of how Patent ‘738 sparked the opioid crisis in Canada, with OxyContin serving as the gateway to an epidemic of addiction that has since spread to other, more hazardous substances such as fentanyl. It has left many dead, and many more ravaged by the drug and its implications"

"It is also a tale of how marketing – not necessarily sound medicine – helped turn Patent ‘738 into one of the most profitable drugs the industry has seen in recent memory, and how careful Purdue has been to protect that empire, even as the damage spread"

source: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news.../+Media&utm_campaign=Shared+Web+Article+Links
 
Why would I find a rainbow in that one.

What we have read is of a drug that should have been kept and maintained as a treatment for pain in extreme circumstances or end of life.
Instead, a company chose to market it in an upswing, and some doctors chose to subscribe it. Desperate patients wanted to get rid of pain.
I happen to have awareness of this pattern from a few people'. Ugly drug. Ugly pattern.
 
Can immoderate addiction cause one to deny the depth of superficial things that have no end to them ... like; love, greed, intelligence and hunger for the ongoing awareness? Thus one eliminates God as eternal in choice for a mortal god ... with limited capacity to accept ongoing process as good or bad and thus make decisions with care and wisdom. The latter entities being in determinate ... simple qualities that can't be quantified for those that look for quantity ... instead of quality ... which is slowly being disposed of like air and water ... recycle rates are limited due to vegetable functions and thus Vege life is encouraged as grass roots while mankind loves deserts ... well toasted environments as in ignited heresy!

Corporate concern: burn those that do not conform ... thus heated boardrooms when controls are hinted at ... a plank Constantine ... of a BM'r when a well rounded brick would serve as a stone ... immovable? A myth? A sure as the return of the auroch ... a primitive Taurus ... 6000 pounds of obstinacy ... as a metaphor there is the stone bull ...
 
It appears there is a fair bit of objective evidence that your view is too pessimistic.

https://www.google.ca/amp/www.vox.c...14042506/steven-pinker-optimistic-future-2016

"John Gray: Steven Pinker is wrong about violence and war
A new orthodoxy, led by Pinker, holds that war and violence in the developed world are declining. The stats are misleading, argues Gray – and the idea of moral progress is wishful thinking and plain wrong

The ancient world, along with all the major religions and pre-modern philosophies, had a different and truer view. Improvements in civilisation are real enough, but they come and go. While knowledge and invention may grow cumulatively and at an accelerating rate, advances in ethics and politics are erratic, discontinuous and easily lost. Amid the general drift, cycles can be discerned: peace and freedom alternate with war and tyranny, eras of increasing wealth with periods of economic collapse. Instead of becoming ever stronger and more widely spread, civilisation remains inherently fragile and regularly succumbs to barbarism. This view, which was taken for granted until sometime in the mid-18th century, is so threatening to modern hopes that it is now practically incomprehensible.

Unable to tolerate the prospect that the cycles of conflict will continue, many are anxious to find continuing improvement in the human lot. Who can fail to sympathise with them? Lacking any deeper faith and incapable of living with doubt, it is only natural that believers in reason should turn to the sorcery of numbers. How else can they find meaning in their lives? Happily, there are some among us who are ready to assist in the quest. Just as the Elizabethan magus transcribed tables shown to them by angels, the modern scientific scryer deciphers numerical auguries of angels hidden in ourselves."

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/mar/13/john-gray-steven-pinker-wrong-violence-war-declining
 
Why would I find a rainbow in that one.

What we have read is of a drug that should have been kept and maintained as a treatment for pain in extreme circumstances or end of life.
Instead, a company chose to market it in an upswing, and some doctors chose to subscribe it. Desperate patients wanted to get rid of pain.
I happen to have awareness of this pattern from a few people'. Ugly drug. Ugly pattern.

An almost inevitable circumstance when you combine an unmanipulated market for pain control (which is so huge, on so many levels, that we just don't talk about it) with for-profit pain relief providers, and very limited pharmacare?
 
From Col. Chris Hardfield:

This year saw a great many positives. Let’s look.

1. The Colombian government and FARC rebels committed to a lasting peace, ending a war that killed or displaced over 7 million people.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-38153932

2. Sri Lanka spent five years working to exile the world’s deadliest disease from their borders. As of 2016, they are malaria free.
http://www.searo.who.int/mediacentre/releases/2016/1631/en/

3. The Giant Panda, arguably the world’s second cutest panda, has officially been removed from the endangered species list.
http://www.nbcnews.com/…/giant-pandas-are-no-longer-endange…

4. Tim Peake became the first ESA astronaut from the UK, symbolizing a renewed British commitment to space exploration.
https://www.theguardian.com/…/tim-peake-nursing-worlds-wors…

5. Tiger numbers around the world are on the rise for the first time in 100 years, with plans to double by 2022.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/…/160410-tiger-numbers-…/

6. Juno, a piece of future history, successfully flew over 800 million miles and is now sending back unprecedented data from Jupiter.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/…/juno-probe-nasa-celebrates-as…/

7. The number of veterans in the US who are homeless has halved in the past half-decade, with a nearly 20% drop in 2016.
http://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/veteran-homelessness-droppe…/

8. Malawi lowered its HIV rate by 67%, and in the past decade has seen a shift in public health that has saved over 250,000 lives.
http://www.aljazeera.com/…/malawi-reduced-hivaids-infection…

9. Air travel continues to get safer, and 2016 saw the second fewest per capita deaths in aviation of any year on record.
http://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/2016-one-safest-years-aviat…/

10. India’s dogged commitment to reforestation saw a single day event planting more than 50 million trees, a world record.
http://www.forbes.com/…/india-bet-6-billion-carbon-storag…/…

11. Measles has been eradicated from the Americas. A 22 year vaccination campaign has led to the elimination of the horrific virus.
http://www.theatlantic.com/…/09/measel-free-americas/501887/

12. After a century, Einstein’s theory of gravitational waves has been proven correct, in a ‘moon shot’ scientific achievement.
https://www.nasa.gov/…/nsf-s-ligo-has-detected-gravitation…/

13. China has announced a firm date for the end of the ivory trade, as public opinion is becoming more staunchly environmentalist.
http://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/china-announces-ban-ivory-t…/

14. A solar powered airplane flew across the Pacific Ocean for the first time, highlighting a new era of energy possibilities.
http://www.cnn.com/…/trav…/solar-impulse-2-plane-california/

15. Costa Rica’s entire electrical grid ran on renewable energy for over half the year, and their capacity continues to grow.
http://thecostaricanews.com/costa-rica-used-100-renewable-…/

16. Israeli and US researchers believe they are on the brink of being able to cure radiation sickness, after successful tests this year.
http://www.reuters.com/…/us-israel-radiation-treatment-idUS…

17. The ozone layer has shown that through tackling a problem head on, the world can stem environmental disasters, together.
http://www.cnn.com/…/…/health/antarctic-ozone-layer-healing/

18. A new treatment for melanoma has seen a potential 40% survival rate, taking a huge step forward towards long-term cancer survivability.
http://www.bbc.com/news/health-36304018

19. An Ebola vaccine was developed by Canadian researchers with 100% efficacy. Humans eradicated horror, together.
http://www.newsweek.com/ebola-vaccine-small-pox-outbreak-va…

20. British Columbia protected 85% of the world’s largest temperate rainforest, in a landmark environmental agreement.
http://www.reuters.com/…/us-canada-environment-rainforest-i…

21. 2016 saw the designation of more than 40 new marine sanctuaries in 20 countries, covering an area larger than the United States.
http://www.reuters.com/…/us-environment-oceans-pledges-idUS…

22. These marine reserves include Malaysia’s 13 year struggle to complete a million hectare park, completed this year.
https://www.theguardian.com/…/malaysia-just-established-a-o…

23. This also includes the largest marine reserve in history, created in Antarctica via an unprecedented agreement by 24 nations.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/…/ross-sea-marine-prote…/

24. Atmospheric acid pollution, once a gloomy reality, has been tackled to the point of being almost back to pre-industrial levels.
http://sciencebulletin.org/archives/5347.html

25. Major diseases are in decline. The US saw a 50% mortality drop in colon cancer; lower heart disease, osteoporosis and dementia.
http://www.nytimes.com/…/a-medical-mystery-of-the-best-kind…

26. Uruguay successfully fought tobacco companies to create a precedent for small countries looking to introduce health-focused legislation.
http://www.csmonitor.com/…/Uruguay-The-little-country-that-…

27. World hunger has reached its lowest point in 25 years, and with poverty levels dropping worldwide, seems likely to continue.
http://www.nytimes.com/…/is-the-era-of-great-famines-over.h…

28. The AU made strides to become more unified, launching an all-Africa passport meant to allow for visa-free travel for all citizens.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/…/the-opposite-of-brexit-af…/

29. Fossil fuel emissions flatlined in 2016, with the Paris agreement becoming the fastest UN treaty to become international law.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/…/rise-in-global-carbon…/

30. China announced a ban on new coal mines, with renewed targets to increase electrical capacity through renewables by 2020.
http://www.wri.org/…/chinas-1-2-3-punch-tackle-wasted-renew…

31. One third of Dutch prison cells are empty as the crime rate shrank by more than 25% in the last eight years, continuing to drop.
http://www.dutchnews.nl/…/falling-crime-rates-and-prison-c…/

32. In August went to the high Arctic with some incredible artists. They helped open my eyes to the promise of the next generation.
www.generatorevent.com/arctic/

33. Science, economics, and environmentalists saw a reversal in the overfishing trends of the United States this year.
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/…/how-dwindling-fish-…/

34. Boyan Slat successfully tested his Ocean Cleanup prototype, and aims to clean up to 40% of ocean-borne plastics starting this year.
https://www.theoceancleanup.com/

35. Israel now produces 55% of its freshwater, turning what is one of the driest countries on earth into an agricultural heartland.
https://ensia.com/features/water-desalination-middle-east/

36. The Italian government made it harder to waste food, creating laws that provided impetus to collect, share and donate excess meals.
http://www.independent.co.uk/…/italy-food-waste-laws-news-m…

37. People pouring ice on their head provided the ALS foundation with enough funding to isolate a genetic cause of the disease.
http://www.alsa.org/…/significant-gene-discovery-072516.htm…

38. Manatees, arguably the most enjoyable animal to meet while swimming, are no longer endangered.
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/ex…/manatees-threatened/

39. Grizzlies, arguably the least enjoyable animal to meet while swimming, no longer require federal protection in national parks.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/…/160304-grizzlies-bear…/

40. Global aid increased 7%, with money being spent to help the world’s 65 million displaced people and refugees doubling.
http://www.oecd.org/…/development-aid-rises-again-in-2015-s…

41. 2016 was the most charitable year in American history. China’s donations have increased more than ten times since a decade ago.
https://givingusa.org/giving-usa-2016/

42. The Gates Foundation announced another 5 billion dollars towards eradicating poverty and disease in Africa.
http://www.africanews.com/…/bill-gates-to-invest-5-billion…/

43. Individual Canadians were so welcoming that the country set a world standard for how to privately sponsor and resettle refugees.
http://www.nytimes.com/…/americ…/canada-syrian-refugees.html

44. Teenage birth rates in the United States have never been lower, while at the same time graduation rates have never been higher.
http://www.pbs.org/…/teen-birthrate-reaches-all-time-low-c…/

45. SpaceX made history by landing a rocket upright after returning from space, potentially opening a new era of space exploration.
https://www.wired.com/…/spacex-just-landed-rocket-ground-f…/

46. Finally - The Cubs won the World Series for the first time in 108 years, giving hope to Maple Leafs fans everywhere.
http://www.nbcnews.com/…/chicago-cubs-bury-curse-first-worl…

There are countless more examples, big and small. If you refocus on the things that are working, your year will be better than the last.
 
Still... in the night we hope for peace .. that someone's dreams to make monis ... will cause dissonance in our realm of oppressed thoughts and emotions while off in alien space ... imagining better without a change ... a rye rest? Tis an Isis (kohl'r) conception without knowledge of how it bumps some over the edge ... because of the Taurus of Brahma ... a drinking spot in the forest as a brassiere in Gael nakedness in the pool ... the Lady of the Lake? Tis aD onus, an old expression for a' given or give till it hurts ...

When enough pain you wil be out of here ... a mental condition attached to shock! Some believe it and executive decision ...
 
Back
Top