Where Do We Go From Here...?

[Ritafee]

Sounds very Ubuntu to me ...

"Every socio-political system we have ever had as the human race has failed us dramatically – not because of incompetent people, but because of money. Some people jump to the conclusion by saying that Contributionism is just another form of communism or socialism. Those assumptions are absolutely wrong. Every system we have had was always based on money, including communism. And any system that uses money, barter or trade, will remain a failed system of enslavement and we as the majority of this planet have to move beyond it."

"Some people think that living without money is like going back to the dark ages or living in caves. This is very indicative of our poisoned minds by consumerism and the trap of money. Without money we actually achieve the complete opposite. The unleashing of scientific knowledge, sharing of the most advanced discoveries in technology, free energy, engineering, design, construction, and every other area of society. By removing money, we remove all obstacles to discovery and progress in every sector."

"As unimaginable as it may be for some, you will soon see how liberating it is, when you embrace this simple philosophy or the “natural order of things” and imagine the possibilities. A system where people contribute to the greater benefit of all in their community, locally and globally, rather than chasing money to buy bread. Where they can follow their natural talents or acquired skills and love every moment of every day, living a fulfilled live. Whether they are farmers, scientists, shoemakers, civil engineers, or anything else they choose, the positive energy generated by these conditions is unimaginable to us at present."

"They say that history has taught us nothing. Well - this is the time when we finally have to learn from history and choose a completely new course. This potentially catastrophic economic situation presents us with a shining opportunity to consciously change our course and secure our destiny as the human race – a destiny of abundance for all"

"Not Utopia – but The Natural Order of Things"

“Let each citizen contribute their natural talents or acquired skills to the greater benefit of all in the community.”

Source: http://www.ubuntuparty.org.za/p/contributionism-part-1-introduction.html

 

[Luce NDs]

Utopia ... an imaginary state ... sort of like existing in a state of mind ... when the understanding of sol-spirit is yet beyond those with physical attachments ... with some Shadow of dubiousness!

Could be a' thorn in the behind to those believing totally in the physical system and having not concerns for the aria ... but then is the anal view ... a tight host? Relax and the thoughts pass ...

To the physically successful is a larger stack of words just more chit in the wings?

 

[GeoFee]

I am not quite sure of what you are trying to say, It does sound a bit like Karl Marx.

Thanks. Got Marx off the shelf and thumbed through the pages of the "Communist Manifesto." A minor influence in my thinking which comes into the foreground now and then.

"From each as they are able and to each as they have need."

"They gathered as each was able and none had too much and none had too little."

Ancient ideals rarely realized.

Why?

George

 

[BetteTheRed]

Why? is what I've never understood. It's clearly in at least most modern culture's capacities to feed and house their populations and have leftover 'goods'. I'm not sure why we don't start constructing a society by making sure everyone has sufficient to meet their needs for shelter, food, warmth, clothing and then figure out a system to divvy up the "excess". I think ultimately, as a species, if we survive, we will have to be a lot less individual, a lot more communal.

 

[Ritafee]

“As long as the general population is passive, apathetic, diverted to consumerism or hatred of the vulnerable, then the powerful can do as they please, and those who survive will be left to contemplate the outcome." - Noam Chomsky

 

[Luce NDs]

“As long as the general population is passive, apathetic, diverted to consumerism or hatred of the vulnerable, then the powerful can do as they please, and those who survive will be left to contemplate the outcome." - Noam Chomsky

Hints of the great escape that the survivors believe to be a gross option? Co Po Real; a lesser form of reality as subtle virtue ... humilitiy ... or erroneous AUM'r? None the less then ... one is out there ... with that farce ID gaze! The primal IDe has departed?

 

[GeoFee]

"To be or not to be?"

Communal is key. A free association of persons serving the common good. Tolstoi comes to mind. As does Ghandi.

Nicely pictured in the apostolic community. One spirit. Diverse resources serving a common purpose; inclusion of all in the available social good.

Opportunity for a Church looking for a way to go?

George

 

[BetteTheRed]

I'd suggest that the budding Baba Yaga movement (elderly people co-purchasing housing and living and supporting each others) is an example of what this looks like, practically. Also, Camphill communities.

 

[Luce NDs]

"To be or not to be?"

Communal is key. A free association of persons serving the common good. Tolstoi comes to mind. As does Ghandi.

Nicely pictured in the apostolic community. One spirit. Diverse resources serving a common purpose; inclusion of all in the available social good.

Opportunity for a Church looking for a way to go?

George

Some people reject this gathering sense ... gravitas? Stoic, upstanding support as ET! Few see IDe ...

 

[Pinga]

In general, it is because the concept has not worked.

I choose to work at a certain level with certain added stresses due to the compensation that I receive.
I could sit at home now and live off a decent pension. I choose not to. Note: there is a shortage in the skillset that I have so I am not stopping someone from getting a job.

I do not mind my higher income being taxed at a reasonable layer. I do expect; however, that because I choose to do that extra work that I will get income for it.

In a communal society, there is no incentive, other than the greater good. If there was no additional income for doing that work, then, I would say " i have done my share of working for society, it is time to live off of the pension".

I can think of others who are quite happy to not work and will always take the easiest way out.
Based on givings and sharing in our country, the concept of the majority of people working for the good of society, rather than for personal gain, is highly unlikely.

 

[Luce NDs]

Are some deeper skills of adepts rejected as the ugly authority deny the aesthetics of MOG ... a natural thing beyond us?

Sort of Shadowy as a place to go for respite ...

 

[Ritafee]

In general, it is because the concept has not worked.

I choose to work at a certain level with certain added stresses due to the compensation that I receive.
I could sit at home now and live off a decent pension. I choose not to. Note: there is a shortage in the skillset that I have so I am not stopping someone from getting a job.

I do not mind my higher income being taxed at a reasonable layer. I do expect; however, that because I choose to do that extra work that I will get income for it.

In a communal society, there is no incentive, other than the greater good. If there was no additional income for doing that work, then, I would say " i have done my share of working for society, it is time to live off of the pension".

I can think of others who are quite happy to not work and will always take the easiest way out.
Based on givings and sharing in our country, the concept of the majority of people working for the good of society, rather than for personal gain, is highly unlikely.

Wow. Just Wow.

 

[Pinga]

What part of that makes you go "wow, just wow", @monk?

 

[Ritafee]

@Pinga while there may be a shortage of people with that particular skill set - I lean towards a world where capitalizing on people's security fears will become obsolete ... I favor the incentive of common good and consider myself a common person - you consider yourself an expert person. We seem to be being on different playing fields ... for now.
[edited to remove personal information]

 

[Luce NDs]

"capitalizing on people's security fears will become obsolete ... I favor the incentive of common good"

Is that denied utilitarianism or pragmatic as out 've here and now given the follow the desire addax mode ... with the chi as a cross! First ignore the small dots and points as detailing ...

 

[Pinga]

Hi @monk, I have asked the moderators to adjust your post to remove specifics regarding my business.

Now, regarding your content, if anything, I help to put to put controls back in organizations hands, and do so to reduce fear. The reality is that there are organizations who are thieves and agents of "enemies". As one co-worker described them, and he was serious "agents of the devil". I tend not to think that way, as I recognize the various reasons that people take actions. This isn't make-believe that there are hackers out there. It is real, and it has financial and safety impacts.

Regarding common good:
I love the incentive of common good.
Yet, I recognize that most people do not take the jobs of garbage truck driver, or book keeper, or manufacturer in the interests of benefiting the common good.
They do so to have a living for their family to suit what they feel is appropriate. For some, that need will be more than others.
They also contribute to the common good through sharing income, or providing volunteer hours. They do it through their lives of being good people.
Each individual will make decisions on what % of their time and talents goes to that.

I used to be a cost accountant, for sure, that was about corporate work, but, in my time, I helped to bring about LGBT benefits in our canadian organization, and things like wig allowance increased, and a day care started. I volunteered in the community.
Now, I needed that job to pay my bills and to allow me to live the way that I wanted to live.

[FONT=Open Sans, sans-serif]My point is, that we don't do it for the common good, or the vast majority don't, but, as we live our lives, most people will want to at least end up even, if not ahead on the scale of contribution to good part of the world.[/FONT]

 

[GeoFee]

"In a communal society, there is no incentive, other than the greater good."

This nicely states the Capitalizing mind on encounter with indigenous sensibility. We may look at this by considering tobacco as a natural substance used by an indigenous people. How was it regarded by the indigenous people? How was it regarded by the Colonizers?

Hebrew scriptures notice the problem of harlotry. The selling of one's productive ability for use by another. Working for money. Why? To transcend the natural order and occupy the manufactured order? The eclipse of the natural by the rise of the artificial?

Private interest has eclipsed the common good. A particular has crossed a boundary and the universal is in jeopardy.

George

 

[GeoFee]

"Yet, I recognize that most people do not take the jobs of garbage truck driver, or book keeper, or manufacturer in the interests of benefiting the common good. They do so to have a living for their family to suit what they feel is appropriate. For some, that need will be more than others. They also contribute to the common good through sharing income, or providing volunteer hours. They do it through their lives of being good people." Pinga

All of this is in play only where money is involved. Capitalism has effectively "monetized" all our relations. This as an imposition by which the natural is suppressed and the artificial endorsed and promoted. There are alternatives in which worth is not measured by money or what money can obtain. These alternatives have been present to human experience in all the ages. At times they have been explored and developed. Invariably to fall back as the struggle for power through profit finds opportunity and takes advantage.

George

 

[Mendalla]

Hebrew scriptures notice the problem of harlotry. The selling of one's productive ability for use by another. Working for money. Why? To transcend the natural order and occupy the manufactured order? The eclipse of the natural by the rise of the artificial?

How is working for money equivalent to being a prostitute, George? Sorry, I don't buy it. Even if one is paid by an exchange of goods (I fix your computer, you give me food from your garden), payment is happening. Money simply adds a layer of abstraction to value services whose value in tomatoes or cows or other services is not easily figured out. Once again, as I have said before, capitalism isn't the problem. Even profit is not the problem. The problem is when we let pursuit of profit overwhelm and outweigh other ends, including caring for the needs of the world and others. I see no reason to think I would be happier in a communal society than I am where I am and I see no reason to believe that my accepting pay for my services is immoral or damaging or has turned me into an uncaring cog in the wheel. You and monk are pushing an extreme understanding of capitalism as a strawman to support your moral order and it simply does not reflect the reality I live in. We need a balanced world, not one tilting to extremes and I'm sorry, but the idealistic dream of communism or whatever you call it is not balanced.

 

[Ritafee]

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it’s just the opposite. –John Kenneth Galbraith