Where Do We Go From Here...?

[GeoFee]

"I wish you would ask more of real-life and how people are and what their lives are like." Pinga

What leads you to assume I ask little of real life? And what do you know of my intimate experience with persons suffering chronic and terminal illness? What insights were gleaned as I invested my creative energies in support of persons no longer able to fend for themselves? Then there are the years in the inner city of Vancouver among some of Canada's most vulnerable persons. Beyond vulnerable, these persons were despised by the consensus. With a small company of neighbourhood participants we took them in. We fed them. We provided harm reduction resources. We worked with them to establish new possibility. Sometimes simple as getting a room. Safer doing tricks in a room than in the street.

I wish you well along your optimistic way...

George

 

[Pinga]

Aaah, Geo, those people I have no doubt you have lots of wonderful understanding of and how we can help. I have great respect for your knowledge of same.

My comments , and I apologize if not explicit earlier, are your overall despising and lack of trust of corporate worlds or the middle class person's engagement with corporations.

 

[Ritafee]

Aaah, Geo, those people I have no doubt you have lots of wonderful understanding of and how we can help. I have great respect for your knowledge of same.

My comments , and I apologize if not explicit earlier, are your overall despising and lack of trust of corporate worlds or the middle class person's engagement with corporations.

This is too funny coming from one whose gainful employment is based on their expertise in managing 'lack of trust of corporate worlds or the middle class person's engagement with corporations.'

 

[Pinga]

Umm, @monk -- - say what?
I am like a locksmith , but I do systems versus doors. I am not sure if you are suggesting that we shouldn't have locks on doors or there isn't a need. In the case of systems, orgs are not aware of the ways that people can walk in, so yes, I help to educate, and also, help to install locks and alarms

 

[Ritafee]

Hmmm, I don't see how my right to working harder and gaining more income is at the expense of the common good. In fact, my working harder and gaining more income is at the benefit of the common good. My givings have risen and will continue to rise with my income.

The censoring was due to the explicit naming of a few aspects of what I do. I am happy to have you speak regarding IT professionals, but, would rather not be more specific due to google searches.

I have searched for "easy way out" and "more than adequate" in any post that I have done, and cannot find any. If you could point them out, that would be awesome. What I sense is you are reading into other things that I have said in this thread or in "covet".

If economic catastrophe occurs, we will likely see the worst and the best. There will be those who are kind and generous, but, I guess I am guessing that those pockets of people will be overrun/ruled by those who are more about the fittest and the strongest. (I would love for you to give me an example of a place where in the midst of war, famine or flood, that generosity was how society responded.

I could sit at home now and live off a decent pension. I choose not to.
I do expect; however, that because I choose to do that extra work that I will get income for it.
I can think of others who are quite happy to not work and will always take the easiest way out.
.

 

[Pinga]

Ok, you interpreted "decent" as "more than adequate". I would have gone with "adequate".
You also switched around the easiest way out. Actually, retiring when I did was likely not the easiest way out. I had to put up with crap to get that pension, and I also was quite ethical in items related to my end date to get it....so....I wouldn't have referred to the path I took as easiest way out"
It is much better if you are quoting if you use the actual words, and if possible, ensure they are in context.

ps. monk, you really seem not to be happy with me or my career choices. Do you have some personal issue going on here?
***********
back to regularly scheduled programming.

 

[Ritafee]

Umm, @monk -- - say what?
I am like a locksmith , but I do systems versus doors. I am not sure if you are suggesting that we shouldn't have locks on doors or there isn't a need. In the case of systems, orgs are not aware of the ways that people can walk in, so yes, I help to educate, and also, help to install locks and alarms

Open Doors + Open Source = Common Good.

 

[Pinga]

Really?

So open doors in a pharmacy is common good?
How about open doors at the bank, let's not lock the doors to the vault either.
hmmm, how about open doors in the jail

shucks, why have doors at all?

 

[Pinga]

also, why not have our food manufacturers have open doors, and ability for anyone to manipulate recipes.
You want to throw some nuts into that cookie and then sell it without labellign, no problem.
Open source is awesome....let's have recipes for pharmaceuticals, foods, and medicines be open source, right? no need to protect them?
hmm, water plants, yup, let's make them open source, and have their plc's be accessable by all.
open door, open source --- perfect for our world.

 

[Luce NDs]

Dostoevsky's "The Idiot" marked a turning point for me. Offered an Eastern perspective to question and balance my inherited Western world view. Later Tolstoi encouraged me along the opening way.

With great appreciation for all the authors who inspired and challenged me through the years. By the light of their insight and example I am encouraged to persist as a single one in service to the transcendent whole.

George

Then there was CS Lewis on what was unearthed (non-mired) in the Shadow Lands ...

 

[Luce NDs]

Haute buttons seem to have ben de pressed ...

Do such buttons lead to Moor beyond ... the present states of learn in president?

 

[Waterfall]

Wasn't even Jesus' ministry supported by the wealthy? Joanna, Mary Magdelene, Susanna, and many others?

It sounds to me that Jesus didn't condemn them but rather promoted the community to help the poor rather than the state, because you will always have the poor among you. Not only that you will always have the lazy, the mentally ill, the bereaved, the workoholic,....there's just no accounting for personality's or individualism.

When you have extreme socialism vs extreme capitalism both can be equally detrimental to societies, just ask Sweden.

Why can't both be moved to middle ground and take the good from both, because whether anyone wants to believe it or not, there are definite advantages to capitalism that are of extreme benefit to everyone. Stop with the labels and just look to how BOTH perspectives really can lend itself to improving ALL lives. It's called the "third way"

This is Bolivia:
http://www.theglobalist.com/where-socialism-appears-to-work-a-close-up-look-at-evo-morales/

 

[Luce NDs]

There is that potential ... but then the AEY of the camel ... a stubborn vision ... greatly affected by unknown urges to do different ...

Does that work both ways ... sort of a deuce ... literary device as in metaphor or satyr?

 

[GeoFee]

Wasn't even Jesus' ministry supported by the wealthy? Joanna, Mary Magdelene, Susanna, and many others?

It sounds to me that Jesus didn't condemn them but rather promoted the community to help the poor rather than the state, because you will always have the poor among you. Not only that you will always have the lazy, the mentally ill, the bereaved, the workoholic,....there's just no accounting for personality's or individualism.

When you have extreme socialism vs extreme capitalism both can be equally detrimental to societies, just ask Sweden.

Why can't both be moved to middle ground and take the good from both, because whether anyone wants to believe it or not, there are definite advantages to capitalism that are of extreme benefit to everyone. Stop with the labels and just look to how BOTH perspectives really can lend itself to improving ALL lives. It's called the "third way"

This is Bolivia:
http://www.theglobalist.com/where-socialism-appears-to-work-a-close-up-look-at-evo-morales/

Hi Waterfall...

I appreciate your notice of the well funded women who supported the new social economy inspired by Jesus. These women shift their resources from self interest to serve the common good. They seem to have intuited the insight of Jesus in a way that a certain rich young ruler did not. The apostolic community affirms this shift from private interest to the common good. A key verse indicates that those who followed the way of Jesus did not consider themselves the possessors of private wealth. They are shown to be persons wholly dedicated to the common good.

I like your notice of a blend of the best features of capitalism and socialism. Rather than a battle over which is superior to the other, why not bring forward the best of personal industry and thrift in service to the common good? Each of us who chooses this way contributes to the realization of our shared hope for a restored and revitalized human being in creation.

George

 

[GeoFee]

"My comments , and I apologize if not explicit earlier, are your overall despising and lack of trust of corporate worlds or the middle class person's engagement with corporations." Pinga

Hi Pinga,

First let me say that I very much appreciate your engagement. Citizens are strengthened by dialogue. As we wrestle with concepts and ideas our insight is clarified and our resolve strengthened. Where this dialogue permeates the social economy hope is strengthened. The contrary is in play where citizens are lulled into complacency and passivity.

I am not sure where the world "despising" comes from? In a democracy persons are responsible for the notice and resistance of any idea by which the common good may be diminished. I am persuaded that there are ideas now in play which do harm and if these ideas are not questioned and modified that harm will increase. Is it not my responsibility to speak out as I am able?

What I work for is the quickening of critical consciousness and the development of personal responsibility of each directed to the good of all. I am resistant to any advance of private interest entailing negative consequence for the common good.

George

 

[Ritafee]

ps. monk, you really seem not to be happy with me or my career choices. Do you have some personal issue going on here?

A Song of Faith, adopted in 2006, seeks to provide a verbal picture of what The United Church of Canada understands its faith to be in the historical, political, social, and theological context of the early 21st century. It is also a means of ongoing reflection and an invitation for the church to live out its convictions in relation to the world in which we live.

I suppose I do ... does this Song of Faith have any significance for you personally? Would you consider yourself a follower of Jesus? It seems that I am confused as to your 'convictions' in relation to the world in which we live ... I have perhaps placed expectations on you that are unwarranted due to erroneous assumptions on my part.

 

[Pinga]

Absolutely, I consider myself a follower of Jesus. I find the song of faith a bit long, but, yes, it has meaning to me.

What are you confused about?

 

[Ritafee]

Why you so often oppose alternative ideas for living out the vision of Christ's church as outlined in the United Church of Canada's "A Song of Faith".

The church has not always lived up to its vision.
It requires the Spirit to reorient it,
helping it to live an emerging faith while honouring tradition,
challenging it to live by grace rather than entitlement,
for we are called to be a blessing to the earth.

We sing of God’s good news lived out,
a church with purpose:
faith nurtured and hearts comforted,
gifts shared for the good of all,
resistance to the forces that exploit and marginalize,
fierce love in the face of violence,
human dignity defended,
members of a community held and inspired by God,
corrected and comforted,
instrument of the loving Spirit of Christ,
creation’s mending.

 

[Pinga]

Why you so often oppose alternative ideas for living out the vision of Christ's church as outlined in the United Church of Canada's "A Song of Faith".

The church has not always lived up to its vision.
It requires the Spirit to reorient it,
helping it to live an emerging faith while honouring tradition,
challenging it to live by grace rather than entitlement,
for we are called to be a blessing to the earth.

We sing of God’s good news lived out,
a church with purpose:
faith nurtured and hearts comforted,
gifts shared for the good of all,
resistance to the forces that exploit and marginalize,
fierce love in the face of violence,
human dignity defended,
members of a community held and inspired by God,
corrected and comforted,
instrument of the loving Spirit of Christ,
creation’s mending.

Are there specific ideas that you suggest that I have opposed which are supported through the call of faith?
Note: I hope you would agree that if an idea is presented such as "we should honour the tradition of only men being pastors" or "we should honour the tradition of marriage only being between a man & a woman", is something that many of us would oppose, and does not mean that we are not Christian, or do not honour the song of faith.

So, please, give me a specific item that I am in opposition to.

 

[Pinga]

Here is what seems odd to me, @monk.
You seem to have an issue with me.

I wonder, and I ask you this question sincerely.
If I had said that I had taken a minimum wage job to append to my pension, would you have had the same issues? If I said, hey, i got a job at Home Depot, or Tim Hortons, or in retail clothing, how would you have reacted.

It feels that you have some serious issues and it is interesting to see where they come from.

At the same time, this thread is devolving into a Monk doesn't like Pinga thread, which seems kinda odd in wondercafe2....and I am not sure of the value,

So, maybe, if you can name the specifics, it would be easier?