Where Do We Go From Here...?

[Ritafee]

I am purely misunderstood by many ... my lack of knowing or theirs regarding classic literature (beyond the acceptable book to authority)? All the other books have been exposed to burning at past periods ... where does the smoke of a book go ... into alternate Eire?

• "And, indeed, as he listened to the cries of joy rising from the town, Rieux remembered that such joy is always imperiled. He knew what those jubilant crowds did not know but could have learned from books: that the plague bacillus never dies or disappears for good; that it can lie dormant for years and years in furniture and linen chests; that it bides its time in bedrooms, cellars, trunks, and bookshelves; and that perhaps the day would come when, for the bane and the enlightening of men, it would rouse up its rats again and send them forth to die in a happy city."- Albert Camus'

Monk, what type of chronic diseases are you referring to? Where are your stats from?
I'm curious what impact the increases in diagnosis regarding mental health / anxiety disorders have on stats.

• Well then you should look up those stats. The chronic disease industry as it has been manufactured for your corporate pleasure is significantly inclusive of mental health/anxiety disorders. This thread is about ignoring the signs that we are on the road to hell if we don't soon change our direction. Your detours into sanctimonious statistics do not change the reality of that. You have a chronic disease do you not? How much of a burden has that put on the medical system in your province?

You may not realize it but I think you are helping promote the kind of fear that could lead to the things you suggest. Self fulfilling prophecy, it becomes. Eg. Alex Jones ain't spreading love and goodwill.

• I am tired of mollycoddling everything for the anxiety ridden masses. Again ... shooting the messengers will not be the solution. I am no longer watching Alex Jones because of his attachment to capitalism and the illogical hope that he has put in Trump. Other than that ... he has been proven right in his reporting more than he has been proven wrong. Reporting on what is going on does not make it happen. So if you want to keep your head in the sand and pretend that all is right with the world as long as everything that you don't want to face is 'censored' out of existence - carry on but stop blaming it on the people that are trying to break away from that system of compliance with their own demise.

 

[GeoFee]

Hi Kimmio,

Nice to find the Kierkegaard quote. An author I have wrestled with for many years.

Don Quixote also comes to mind. A simpleton with a purpose is to be preferred to a genius conformed to dominant structures by which planet and people are misused and abused in service to profit and power. This under the sign of hubris. An ancient Greek concept having to do with the relationship of personality, pride and power.

It saddens me to notice persons seeking reputation by pronouncing radical insight. Making names for themselves in the marketplace of ideas. By this obscuring the deep philosophical ground in which the apocalyptic mind takes root. Apocalyptic signifying only the ending of one historical dispensation and the emergence of another. An ending much resisted only by those wholly vested in material advantage. The great majority are in a place of decision. Each having opportunity to bring forward what helps and resist what hinders.

Denial of the psychic disturbance now manifest in the "civilized" world precludes hope of remedy.

A great clown who shared an important point of view:

A minor clown having fun resisting the abuse of corporate power with neighbours and friends:

George

 

[Ritafee]

This is a well written opinion piece called "The Day the Laughter Died"...

https://theawl.com/the-day-the-laughter-died-fbfb980bc7fe#.wni2zt1vb

Conclusion of that piece ...

• "In recognizing comedy’s limits, we should be left with a sense that all of civil government, all of ethics, all of civilization is at stake. We stand with one foot over the edge of an abyss, and the answer is not to avert our gaze, stifle a helpless giggle, and pretend things are all right. Even those of us who have laughed ourselves into a state of despairing skepticism have reason to remain brave and hopeful in our struggles for what is good and right. Otherwise we will lapse into cynicism and indifference, chiding one another for our mistakes and chuckling to ourselves about the impossibility of altering this untenable state of affairs. Comedy isn’t some all-powerful messianic force that can alter the course of history, but it’s right to expect that our comedians will continue alerting us, their voices increasingly strident and urgent, to the fires off in the distance. We must heed their warnings, and extinguish these blazes before it’s too late."

 

[GeoFee]

Conclusion of that piece ...

• "In recognizing comedy’s limits, we should be left with a sense that all of civil government, all of ethics, all of civilization is at stake. We stand with one foot over the edge of an abyss, and the answer is not to avert our gaze, stifle a helpless giggle, and pretend things are all right. Even those of us who have laughed ourselves into a state of despairing skepticism have reason to remain brave and hopeful in our struggles for what is good and right. Otherwise we will lapse into cynicism and indifference, chiding one another for our mistakes and chuckling to ourselves about the impossibility of altering this untenable state of affairs. Comedy isn’t some all-powerful messianic force that can alter the course of history, but it’s right to expect that our comedians will continue alerting us, their voices increasingly strident and urgent, to the fires off in the distance. We must heed their warnings, and extinguish these blazes before it’s too late."

 

[Pinga]

• Well then you should look up those stats. The chronic disease industry as it has been manufactured for your corporate pleasure is significantly inclusive of mental health/anxiety disorders. This thread is about ignoring the signs that we are on the road to hell if we don't soon change our direction. Your detours into sanctimonious statistics do not change the reality of that. You have a chronic disease do you not? How much of a burden has that put on the medical system in your province?

The chronic disease industry has been "manufactured for your corporate pleasure"? I have no idea what you mean by that.

My detours to sanctimonious statistics? How can stats be sanctimonious?

Hmmm, I guess you could call my obesity and my Type II diabetes chronic diseases. The burden for the medical system has been really low. I get checked as part of my doctor's appointment.

Note: Those two items were conditions that my father, my paternal grandmother, and her mother ..(and various other cousins) have had for generations. Although not necessarily diagnosed back in the day, or treated as we do, by the images it is clear this pattern is genetic in nature.

Am I missing some point that youwere trying to make?

 

[GeoFee]

Hi...

Lest you take me for a pessimist.

I clearly see the sun setting and wholly appreciate the gifts of the dark. Always in anticipation of sunrise and the breaking forth of a new day.

With great appreciation for surprising encouragements along the way of critical inquiry!

George

 

[Ritafee]

The chronic disease industry has been "manufactured for your corporate pleasure"? I have no idea what you mean by that.

My detours to sanctimonious statistics? How can stats be sanctimonious?

Hmmm, I guess you could call my obesity and my Type II diabetes chronic diseases. The burden for the medical system has been really low. I get checked as part of my doctor's appointment.

Note: Those two items were conditions that my father, my paternal grandmother, and her mother ..(and various other cousins) have had for generations. Although not necessarily diagnosed back in the day, or treated as we do, by the images it is clear this pattern is genetic in nature.

Am I missing some point that youwere trying to make?

Many physicians and practitioners consider patients being treated for some types of cancer as living with a chronic condition.

 

[Ritafee]

[QUOTE="GeoFee, post: 154233, member: 14"

With great appreciation for surprising encouragements along the way of critical inquiry!

George[/QUOTE]

Indeed!

 

[chansen]

We have names for things that people have been suffering from long before. Chronic conditions aren't getting worse - we just recognize more conditions.

Yes, sometimes the pharmaceutical industry will look to drive up demand by telling people they suffer from something that can be cured with a pill. How is that different from Christianity telling people it can cure people of the curse that Christianity tells them they have?

 

[GeoFee]

"The chronic disease industry"

Found Ivan Illich on "iatrogenesis" encouraging. What follows where medicine is considered commodity and disease as opportunity for profit? Some profit by the advertisement and sale of noxious substances producing negative health outcomes. Others profit by the advertisement and sale of corrective substances and therapies producing, ostensibly, positive health outcomes. Considered by market logic this is good for money and therefore it is good for us.

A bit about Illich's persepctive:

"Health, argues Illich, is the capacity to cope with the human reality of death, pain, and sickness. Technology can help, but modern medicine has gone too far—launching into a godlike battle to eradicate death, pain, and sickness. In doing so, it turns people into consumers or objects, destroying their capacity for health." SOURCE
​

George

 

[GeoFee]

We have names for things that people have been suffering from long before. Chronic conditions aren't getting worse - we just recognize more conditions.

Yes, sometimes the pharmaceutical industry will look to drive up demand by telling people they suffer from something that can be cured with a pill. How is that different from Christianity telling people it can cure people of the curse that Christianity tells them they have?

Not at all different. The stimulation of need in the service of profit and power. Costumes hardly matter.

 

[Pinga]

Umm, yes, some forms of cancer are chronic...they are not cured, only put into remission or control.
Other forms are considered curable. In my case, I happen to have the latter.

I'm not clear, are you thinking that corporations are at fault for my cancer? I am not sure how that at all lines up with the nature of this thread.

 

[GeoFee]

"I'm not clear, are you thinking that corporations are at fault for my cancer?" Pinga

I am thinking that we have made decisions by which the statistical probability of cancer has been increased. This implies we may now make decisions by which the statistical probability of cancer will be diminished. Our primary concern is with air and water. What harms these molecular structures harms our common biological integrity.

We have a problem. There is a remedy. Cure will not be easy and preferred outcomes are not guaranteed. No doubt some will prefer the disease to the remedy.

Examining Western social reality closely reveals a material standard far exceeding legitimate human need. This at the high cost of devastated environments and the dissolution of human trust, happiness, peace and love. Can it be that we have sold our eternal soul for a momentary gratification?
​

George

 

[Pinga]

wait, what?

Again, yes, we have made decisions; however, they are personal decisions not corporate....at least they are with my cancer.
There are corporate decisions and government decisions which will drive down the probability of that cancer; however, there are folks, such as Monk who argue against those actions.

I really am not following your logic, GeoFee.

What is the remedy that you are proposing? What is it a remedy for?

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

I think too many are confusing prophecy with nefarious BS. I don't think AJ's been right about much. And his presentation is more sensationalism than anything approaching fact.

It may not be helpful to coddle the anxious masses. Giving them (electronically transmitted) rabies certainly isn't helpful.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

If I am not mistaken I think George is talking about dependency on material excesses, and how we arrive at those excesses, and the consequences of them - he is saying the remedy is not to be found in corporate or government power to save us from ourselves, but in realizing we need far less materially than we have, and sharing, and not wasting our lives on making the rich and powerful more rich and powerful because he believes it will culminate in something awful, to our detriment. But detaching from material greed is painful. And...I can see that...but I also see that even the rich and powerful are human beings, and even governments are composed of people. I know we don't need as much as we think we do. And yes, we are lied to - even about medical illnesses and cures sometimes - but not all the time!!! So I partially disagree. We have to be skeptical and apply "buyer beware" to everything. Especially when corporations are doing their own research, imo. But the more we have - of stuff in general - the more we think we need. It's easy to confuse desire with need.

In George's ministerial capacity, I think George is asking WWJD?

 

[Luce NDs]

"The chronic disease industry"

Found Ivan Illich on "iatrogenesis" encouraging. What follows where medicine is considered commodity and disease as opportunity for profit? Some profit by the advertisement and sale of noxious substances producing negative health outcomes. Others profit by the advertisement and sale of corrective substances and therapies producing, ostensibly, positive health outcomes. Considered by market logic this is good for money and therefore it is good for us.

A bit about Illich's persepctive:

"Health, argues Illich, is the capacity to cope with the human reality of death, pain, and sickness. Technology can help, but modern medicine has gone too far—launching into a godlike battle to eradicate death, pain, and sickness. In doing so, it turns people into consumers or objects, destroying their capacity for health." SOURCE
​

George

Can you hear the demons giggling in the background as they don't take the stress of life too seriously ... but there are other factors in life more amusing than physical demons that appear dressed up differently! Approximates a cover-up of the facetiae ... and distant rifts of laughter ... can you imagine ... the twilight zone when licencousness is truly appreciative?

Is there something bigger out there ... a Beta Power than physical power as it comes 4th? Pop-ups from where? Tis a mystery ... just to amuse the deviate from mob consideration (variant of the moral majority)!

Does levity release the soul from the stoically institutionalized? The latter will possibly if not probably deny the former and thus the cycling to create wave forms in particular ... thus the lyrical take me to your latter .. a tall tale about extended aspirations to be part of a healthy plan for sunshine dancing on the waters (ancient symbol of the medium of sol causing buoyancy) ! It flows by many bridges without consideration of apocalypse (a version of cogent personality traits)!

Alas one is not to speak of abstracts when among the absolute powers ... Baldacci produced a novel called Absolute Power ... enough to cause shrinking violets ... flowers of kohl'r powers in the uv range? Thus representative of the purple shadow of cool thought ... some splashed on the wall ... as fruit of wrath ... some say ignored wraiths ... as abstract isn't real ... and must be a virtue ... like inversion of a spectre of images ... sighing's in the dark? Approximates Negro Spirituals ... needing some disassembling ... as Malcom X described the Oreo Crumbs ... bits of the greater cookie?

 

[Luce NDs]

Do the great powers of desire despise and delineate thinking demons ... en mass "demos"?

Oh we couldn't do that, could we without a plunge ... St Teresa thought it a delightful passing pain ... learning? In connected sects a means of bridging troubled waters, disturbed by not knowing the Ba T'ing list ... nor the switch hitters that cross the lines of mortal law and live elsewhere ... within the odd imagination that things could be better ... an eternal hope?

There are those that would preserve things just the way they are with the genetic elites retaining and grasping for more than needed ... beyond the paradigm that statistically doesn't exist ...

 

[BetteTheRed]

This is pretty self-evident, actually. If there weren't the huge profits to be made via alcohol and refined sugar, particularly high glucose corn syrup, there wouldn't be the huge profits from liver and diabetes treatments.

 

[chansen]

wait, what?

My response, in a nutshell.