TRUMP - Some people think......... How do you feel?

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Graeme Decarie said:
Yes. It would be the same under Clinton. You have missed the point I have been trying to make from the start. This is not about individuals or personalities. It doesn't matter who got elected. America as the land of freedom and equality was always more than a bit of a myth. That America has come crashing down.
Indeed, the U.S. has been pursuing world conquest even before World War Two, and the collapse of the European empires. Way back in the nineteenth century, Hawaii was annexed to become the major naval base of the U.S. Have you never wondered why they chose to build their naval base way out in the middle of the Pacific? That's because it was intended to be used for wars of aggression in Asia - particularly against Chna.
Trump ( and Clinton) have been following the dream of American corporations, a world empire with absolute power in their hands. The difference between Trump and Clinton is style, not substance.
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No, Graeme. You're wrong. Personalities do matter. The reality at home would look much different. And even if Trump resets things with Russia he's still ruffled the feathers of every other country.
 
As for reporting on the election, it's been disgusting. News media openly favoured either Clinton or Trump. The ignored the childish speeches of both of them. They ignored the lack of any policy of substance from either of them. The American news media have sunk as low as they can.
 
Kimmio- you still haven't understood anything.
Clinton would not have accepted the counsel of a Sanders. She has long since been bought and paid by the Koch brothers and people like them.
Americans voted for Trump because they have been robbed blind by the very wealthy. The proportion of Americans in poverty is the highest in the developed world. The Clintons and Obama very actively cooperated in allowing that to happen.
This has little to do with Trump or Clinton. They are just the garbage popping to the surface. The U.S. was never what it claimed to be.
He who has eyes to see, let him see....
 
The only reason Clinton speeches were lacking in policy substance is because she had to compete with Trump's media spectacle reality show circus. With that going on - her trying to discuss policy while Trump supporters want a monster truck show or entertainment wrestling match, would've been like watching grass grow. Trump got elected on spectacle. I am disappointed that the media allowed him that and contributed to it.
 
Graeme Decarie said:
Kimmio- you still haven't understood anything.
Clinton would not have accepted the counsel of a Sanders. She has long since been bought and paid by the Koch brothers and people like them.
Americans voted for Trump because they have been robbed blind by the very wealthy. The proportion of Americans in poverty is the highest in the developed world. The Clintons and Obama very actively cooperated in allowing that to happen.
This has little to do with Trump or Clinton. They are just the garbage popping to the surface. The U.S. was never what it claimed to
He who has eyes to see, let him see....
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Some Americans voted for Trump because they feel the reason they are poor is because of immigration and trade agreements....and he agreed.
 
Graeme Decarie said:
Kimmio- you still haven't understood anything.
Clinton would not have accepted the counsel of a Sanders. She has long since been bought and paid by the Koch brothers and people like them.
Americans voted for Trump because they have been robbed blind by the very wealthy. The proportion of Americans in poverty is the highest in the developed world. The Clintons and Obama very actively cooperated in allowing that to happen.
This has little to do with Trump or Clinton. They are just the garbage popping to the surface. The U.S. was never what it claimed to be.
He who has eyes to see, let him see....
Click to expand...
Yes. She would've.

Americans voted for Trump because they bought the spectacle and took the gamble like a fancy Vegas room full of slot machines.

America is probably the greatest country in history. It has had some very bumpy and ugly chapters but people of all ethnicities sharing one national identity, the bold freedom of expression, the long brazen fight for human rights (that will not stop now). Spreading of Americanism as an idea in that sense is not so bad, in my opinion. There are billions who would love the freedoms and opportunities the U.S. offers, despite its shortcomings. They do need to get the money out of politics though. Trump is a shining example of how not to do that, ironically.
 
I have heard many Clinton speeches. Can you name one at any time that had policy substance?
Try to understand, Kimmio, the american political system is enormously corrupt. It has been for a very long time. The Clintons because millionaires to the tune or 200 million or so in just a few years. Ever wonder why the corrupters called lobbyists are called that? It's because, back in the nineteenth century, they used to gather in the lobby of congress to buttonhole elected members, and buy their votes. The can't do that any more because they now number in the thousands - people waving cash to buy governments. The Clintons floated on that tide.
Canada is similar, but not as blatant.
And try to understand that Trump got support because there are millions who have suffered from the deals for the rich. They aren't just morons. They are people who have good reason for being angry with what the Clintons and their friends have done to them. And if the Clintons have hundreds of millions, it's because those people don't have basic necessities - like food and housing.
Most of all, forget Clinton and Trump. The American system was like that before they were born.
 
There are more important things that money. The end to racism, sexism, ableism - is more important than money. I don't give a hoot about a few people with lots of money if those things are in place and I don't give a hoot about having money if we don't have those human rights. But you are hyper focused on your hate the rich mentality. I can't stand it. The U.S. Is losing it's greatest asset - what it has gained in human rights and civil rights - because of a few "to hell with the rich" types.
 
Kimmio said:
Americans voted for Trump because they bought the spectacle and took the gamble like a fancy Vegas room full of slot machines.
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I think it is more than that. I think he successfully sold himself as the outsider who will shake up the establishment. Never mind that he's a billionaire property developer or that his daughter moves in the same social circles as Chelsea or that Bill and Hill were at his last wedding, it's the image that he is somehow "outside" and that being "outside" matters that sold him to a lot of people. Bernie ran on much the same thing even though he's been in politics for a fairly healthy chunk of my lifetime.

In modern politics, selling your image is more important than who you actually are. And I'm afraid that applies to our boy as much as it does Trump.
 
Kimmio, the idea of the U.S. as the greatest nation in history simply means you have bought the American kindergarten version of history. There are been some quite wonderful civilizations in the past - including those beyond the western world. And all ethnicities share one national identity? Well, that wil be a nice surprise for blacks, latinos and native peoples. And they are fearlessly outspoken? Are you serious? This is the most spied upon nation in human history. opportunities? Yeah. Lots of opportunities if you're a Trump or a Hilton. In fact, it is on the low end of the scale for opportunity in the developed world.
And, Kimmio - who had the biggest budget in history for a U.S. election campaign? It wasn't Trump. But far, far, far, it was Hilton.
 
Well basically if Trump does succeed in wooing more business to the US or investing in companies to create more jobs, they will just become the future sources of the millions it takes to buy a candidate for president. They should put the brakes on how much can be spent on a campaign and there should be no ties to anyone placed in office to money that was used to support any party. Every four years the current gov't should hand over equal amounts of money to each party to run their campaign and that's it.
 
The US is a big leader in civil rights? Dream on. American are the most spied on people in history.
Ever check the numbers of blacks and native peoples killed by U.S. police? You can find it at a site called The counted.
 
Well, how about Obama? It took a long time but a black person was elected to the highest office of the land - and this latest election was in large part a racist reaction to Obama, perpetuated by Trump's birther efforts, unfortunately. Mark Cuban is a CEO boss I can think of.

There is nowhere quite like the U.S. in it's fight for civil rights and equality. It is other countries that have followed them. European countries default to nationalism and ethnocentrism - and unfortunately that is what the white nationalist surge in the U.S. is about. As far as I am concerned that's the real shame about Trump's election. That should've "trumped" any economic reason people might've considered voting for him. The greatest thing about the U.S. - it's diversity - will be challenged because of it. But they'll come through it.
 
That is a serious answer, Jae. I tried to tailor it to your opinions. You demonstrate against Canadian women killing babies. You don't demonstrate against Americans killing Muslim and Asian babies by the millions. Does it count only if the babies are killed by a trained doctor? is it okay to kill them by bombers - or starvation as in Yemen?

Obama was a disaster as president. A lot of the support for Trump came from the general disappointment with Obama.

Kimmio, your understanding of American history and its current events is deeply flawed. other countries have far better records of civil rights, equality and opportunity than the U.S. does. The U.S. also has a long history of mass murder all over the world, starting with its own native peoples.
Obviously, you have never heard of Norway, Sweden, Denmark - all of whom are far superior to the U.S. in living standards and protection of rights. You have never heard of what the U.S. did to Cuba - or of how the Cubans achieved things like universal education despite american bullying. You have never heard of the hundreds of thousands killed in Guatemala, of the overthrow of democratic countries all over latin America, Iran, Egypt, the impositions of dictators, the looting of natural resources of other countries (a field in which Canada is also a leader with its mining companies all over the world that abuse local people, destroy the environment, and murder anybody who objects.)
Ah, Jae and Kimmio, you are so lucky to live in your mirror houses of illustions.
 
Think hard Kimmio. Almost half the voters, millions of them, voted for Trump. If your view is correct, those millions of people must be quite deranged. And, if they are quite deranged, how can you believe that a nation of such deranged people can have the greatest civilization in history?

Yes, they have become bigots. That's a comman reaction of a society that has been abused and impoverished by its leaders.
 
The biggest problem with the Scandinavian countries is they do tend to be xenophobic toward non-white immigrants - and they are increasingly lax in allowing euthanasia to disabled people - even kids. Economically...otherwise, they are doing something right I guess - or maybe they just aren't putting money into helping people of colour and the disabled. In the Netherlands parents can have children euthanized up to the age of 12. I guess it saves money for their stellar social system.

Graeme...you have what you have and the choices and chances and voice that you have because you grew up here, in Canada, in the shadow of the U.S. The same goes for all of us who have. As a disabled person I might not even be here if I lived anywhere else.
 
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