Yes, ooh, terrible Christians. Wanting their Christian denomination to be led by Christian leaders.
The Rev. Vosper Again
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Yes, ooh, terrible Christians. Wanting their Christian denomination to be led by Christian leaders.
Why do you stay Bette? What is the metaphor you find in the song of faith?
Pontifex Geronimo 13
#walkaway
Kind of like the board of education has night classes, and you sign up for a marriage course. You get there and the instructors turn out to be swingers, and they spend the evening trying to get you to swap wives with somebody else!
They think it's good clean fun and the curriculum is perfect. No swinger sees anything wrong with it.
What if you went to university to become an engineer and all the instructor were hairdressers.
An atheist cannot teach about improving your relationship with God. By definition they are clueless.
They think it's good clean fun and the curriculum is perfect. No swinger sees anything wrong with it.
What if you went to university to become an engineer and all the instructor were hairdressers.
An atheist cannot teach about improving your relationship with God. By definition they are clueless.
Not really ... some Baptist suggest the UCC originates in 'elle ...
Delightful Life
M&M, Cascadian Lovers
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I think they can?
But by your particular Christianity, they can't because they don't have "the special sauce"?
But I think they can. The words in the bibble mean something. Following them can lead to certain behaviours. Jesus's Way as set of behaviours in order to achieve "g_d"...harmonious interaction with reality and each other
What is problematic is for the congregants needing someone who they feel comfortable with
I can understand that. I think this is an important point that can be verified.
But the whole "special sauce" thing reeks to me of elitism. I had encounters with the HS even though I hadn't yet given my heart to the Dead Jew.
To me the concept of g_d is important because the concept of free will is so vitally important for a well functioning civilization...
The placebo effect isnt real but it is real. It is a lie that can actually help.
And so forth and so on
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No those without alien intelligence are clueless .. but the emotional kind will not accept knowledge, information and other wild wisdom states! Furthermore they don't accept anything about them as funny ...
chansen
Had a point all along
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Except her congregants don't feel duped, so the metaphor is inapplicable. You just want them to believe as you do, and they don't, so you have to discount them as "clueless". They are anything but. They seem like a thoughtful bunch. It's them against the denomination, and I have a thing for the underdog.
The UCCan really needs to go after the entire congregation. That's essentially what they are doing, under the guise of Gretta's "fitness" as a minister. If they do DSL Gretta, the fight with the congregation is next. The people she ministers to have no problem with her fitness to minister. It's people who don't personally know Gretta who are threatened by her lack of belief, and the congregation's lack of belief. Maybe their own beliefs aren't as strong as they pretend, and having atheists around makes them doubt more.
crazyheart
Rest In Peace: tomorrow,tomorrow
BetteTheRed
Resident Heretic
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I stay because I'm godstruck, I guess. Also, because I'm part of a community of 'faith' that comprises people I like, who like to talk about religion in a nonjudgmental way, that's into social justice, and also into food.
The metaphor?
"We also speak of God as
Creator, Redeemer, and Sustainer
God, Christ, and Spirit
Mother, Friend, and Comforter
Source of Life, Living Word, and Bond of Love,
and in other ways that speak faithfully of
the One on whom our hearts rely,
the fully shared life at the heart of the universe."
Godde as Bond of Love? or in other ways that speak faithfully? Summed up, the above says,
We don't understand god, we like sets of three, we believe in the power of love to transform, we believe that there is something, a breath, that distinguishes life from death.
chansen
Had a point all along
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I should add, it's not that I think she belongs in a church, it's that the UCCan *allowed* this to happen. They allowed people to find a home and get comfortable. The UCCan should be blaming itself for this. They failed half the earlier congregants of West Hill, but now those people are gone. That's water under the bridge. If they remove her now, they are penalizing the current congregation more than anyone else.
Worse, I think that's what some people want to do. Read the letter from Metropolitan United. Read the Facebook comments. United Church members want action not just against Gretta, but against atheists in the church. This is an attempt to not just remove Gretta, but to evict atheists who have found a home in the UCCan. Almost nobody is expressing concern for the congregation, and some are gleefully looking forward to their exit as well.
To those who would try to tear apart a community of good people they are not a part of, just because they are embarrassed and don't want to be associated with their lack of belief, I offer a resounding, "f*** you." If they want to make this about belief, and make the public debate about why people should believe, they will lose. Badly. This is Canada, not the American bible belt. You have failed to convince most of your teens, 20-somethings and 30-somethings that God even exists. But instead of looking for a way to engage people who do not believe, and can not believe if they wanted to, you're going to alienate them instead.
And that's the point still ignored by the UCCan: Your kids, by and large, do not believe. It's amazing how you all avoid that basic fact, like it was covered in locusts. But instead of looking at Gretta like she might have some kind of answer, I think some people blame Gretta, and people like her. The answer is much more simple: Your beliefs are insane. Don't blame Gretta - blame the bible for lacking credibility. Blame those who believe literally, even internally in the UCCan, for scaring people away. Your credibility problem stems not from having an atheist in a pulpit, but from all the other pulpits paying homage to crazy. Other denominations are more to blame, but the UCCan is not blameless.
And hey, if that's what you want to believe, have at it. But to come out swinging against someone who rejects it, and her entire congregation who also reject it, puts those beliefs into play. It spurs conversation about the actual beliefs that Gretta and Co. are rejecting, and why they should be removed because of that. The best possible outcome for the UCCan, is that Canadians essentially agree that a church should be able to restrict membership and/or leadership to those who believe the wildly improbable. That's the most you can hope for.
Worse, I think that's what some people want to do. Read the letter from Metropolitan United. Read the Facebook comments. United Church members want action not just against Gretta, but against atheists in the church. This is an attempt to not just remove Gretta, but to evict atheists who have found a home in the UCCan. Almost nobody is expressing concern for the congregation, and some are gleefully looking forward to their exit as well.
To those who would try to tear apart a community of good people they are not a part of, just because they are embarrassed and don't want to be associated with their lack of belief, I offer a resounding, "f*** you." If they want to make this about belief, and make the public debate about why people should believe, they will lose. Badly. This is Canada, not the American bible belt. You have failed to convince most of your teens, 20-somethings and 30-somethings that God even exists. But instead of looking for a way to engage people who do not believe, and can not believe if they wanted to, you're going to alienate them instead.
And that's the point still ignored by the UCCan: Your kids, by and large, do not believe. It's amazing how you all avoid that basic fact, like it was covered in locusts. But instead of looking at Gretta like she might have some kind of answer, I think some people blame Gretta, and people like her. The answer is much more simple: Your beliefs are insane. Don't blame Gretta - blame the bible for lacking credibility. Blame those who believe literally, even internally in the UCCan, for scaring people away. Your credibility problem stems not from having an atheist in a pulpit, but from all the other pulpits paying homage to crazy. Other denominations are more to blame, but the UCCan is not blameless.
And hey, if that's what you want to believe, have at it. But to come out swinging against someone who rejects it, and her entire congregation who also reject it, puts those beliefs into play. It spurs conversation about the actual beliefs that Gretta and Co. are rejecting, and why they should be removed because of that. The best possible outcome for the UCCan, is that Canadians essentially agree that a church should be able to restrict membership and/or leadership to those who believe the wildly improbable. That's the most you can hope for.
Delightful Life
M&M, Cascadian Lovers
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g_ddess does indeed work in mysterious ways
crazyheart
Rest In Peace: tomorrow,tomorrow
Chansen and \Bette, both of you make me think.Thanks
Delightful Life
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What a Canadian...
Sounds to me like all inclusive and eternal ... something the Romans and Jud*eans denied in time to cause separating and thus the bagging of wisdom ... and now they can't see it! Some say the Ca'ð has it there ... in the I'z ach ... they see everything from fiddling on the rouff-eL!
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