TRUMP - Some people think......... How do you feel?

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Graeme Decarie said:
So let's make it simple. Do you seriously believe that one of the outsider candidates has the slightest chance of winning?
Now, I must sleep to catch a flight to Montreal tomorrow.
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I feel I already addressed that Graeme when I said, "However, we don't truly know that the others can't win. The only important poll is the one voters cast on election day." Have a nice sleep and a good flight. Remember to recline to be comfortable.
 
Kimmio said:
And I think the opposite about who is most likely to let us survive.
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So you admit that the government owns us rather than serves us and are free to dispose of us at their will.

Historically, racism has been used as a motivation for the most catastrophic violent atrocities. All racial judgements are subjective evaluations, but when a judgement of superiority is combined with a government's belief that it owns everyone in it's territory and can engineer society by violence, mass murder is often the result.
 
Yes and no. I agree that we have a social contract to live by certain laws that keep peace and order. In Canada, I think we have pretty fair laws. We have a "pretty good" system. We live, comparatively, in one of the best countries in the world. And we are pretty fortunate for that. I don't know how many you've met from places with way worse laws and bigotry and crises and way worse poverty - but we are fortunate. We can improve. But without basic laws, no I do not think people will just naturally treat each other well or not steal or harm each other. Certainly enough people would not. Especially in desperate times. If all of a sudden there were no laws - like when civil wars happen and there is sudden statelessness it is complete mayhem. No thank you. I do not trust the human condition enough to think that if laws ceased to exist some authoritarian arseholes wouldn't come along and make new worse laws anyway. And vigilante justice is not a just replacement. So...I am okay with servitude to fair laws while working to make them more fair within a structured system. That's ok with me.
 
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Kimmio said:
Yes and no. I agree that we have a social contract to live by certain laws that keep peace and order. In Canada, I think we have pretty fair laws. We have a "pretty good" system. We live, comparatively, in one of the best countries in the world. And we are pretty fortunate for that. I don't know how many you've met from places with way worse laws and bigotry and crises and way worse poverty - but we are fortunate. We can improve. But without basic laws, no I do not think people will just naturally treat each other well or not steal or harm each other. Certainly enough people would not. Especially in desperate times. If all of a sudden there were no laws - like when civil wars happen and there is sudden statelessness it is complete mayhem. No thank you. I do not trust the human condition enough to think that if laws ceased to exist some authoritarian arseholes wouldn't come along and make new worse laws anyway. So...I am okay with servitude to fair laws while working to make them more fair.
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Is saying you do not trust the human condition saying that you do not trust yourself?
 
monk said:
Is saying you do not trust the human condition saying that you do not trust yourself?
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No. Not necessarily. I do not entirely trust others will not screw me over. From experience. (And you don't trust government but they are just people and the same people would exist government or not). And I have seen street fights outside of bars and whatnot. I've been nearly hit by speeders more times than I can count. I've been spit on at a bus-stop. I've been drugged. I've had my purse robbed. People do not always automatically practice self control or care for others. I lived in a place where there were riots after a freakin hockey game. I don't think not having laws would improve that. I don't think overly punitive penalties are the answer for breaking the law (in fact I felt sorry for the person who stole my purse - but I was equally ticked off and freaked out that he had my keys and address and I needed to replace some things. And I asked the cops not to press charges against the guy who spat on me, but to talk him down).
 
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Again
Voluntaryism does not mean no laws
If you Kimmio were in some kind of Voluntary-type society or commune you would along with everyone else would be working together in agreement with whatever laws that particular society had.

Those that don't agree don't live in that society.

That's why Monk asked you if you trusted yourself. Because in that hypothetical society I'm writing aboot here you would be integrally actively involved with the society and the laws...you woulnd't be a passive consumer like you can be today.

Or something like that :3
 
Well, I'm practicing that. Just on a bigger scale. There's nothing I'm itching to do that I am not allowed to do. And there are laws I actually want tightened for human rights reasons...:oops::whistle:
 
Inannawhimsey said:
Again
Voluntaryism does not mean no laws
If you Kimmio were in some kind of Voluntary-type society or commune you would along with everyone else would be working together in agreement with whatever laws that particular society had.

Those that don't agree don't live in that society.

That's why Monk asked you if you trusted yourself. Because in that hypothetical society I'm writing aboot here you would be integrally actively involved with the society and the laws...you woulnd't be a passive consumer like you can be today.

Or something like that :3
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Some arsehole could easily screw up a community like that, too. Sure, they might be kicked out but the community is not guaranteed to be problem free. That would be nice but not realistic.
 
Kimmio said:
Some arsehole could easily screw up a community like that, too. Sure, they might be kicked out but the community is not guaranteed to be problem free. That would be nice but not realistic.
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Of course
My point isnt to present it to you as something you should adopt
But rather to show you what it is rather than you relying on your ignorance a la "its lawless"


Similar to how the 2nd amendment in the US isn't aboot stopping crime but part of a human right to self govern etc.

I think it can be said that the Hebrews even showed how it was possible to be a people without an actual state to belong to.
 
Inannawhimsey said:
Again
Voluntaryism does not mean no laws
If you Kimmio were in some kind of Voluntary-type society or commune you would along with everyone else would be working together in agreement with whatever laws that particular society had.

Those that don't agree don't live in that society.

That's why Monk asked you if you trusted yourself. Because in that hypothetical society I'm writing aboot here you would be integrally actively involved with the society and the laws...you woulnd't be a passive consumer like you can be today.

Or something like that :3
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Carolla posted about intentional Christian communities. I could live in one but I am not sure I'd want to be insular and tribal like that. It can be hard enough settling on house rules with roommates if it's inflexible. There's an alpha in every pack. ;) I can see the reverse - the smaller, the less flexible, too. And then you get the alpha weirdos like Jim Jones and David Koresh emerging from some of those small "societies" - alphas with alterior motives. Yeah, actually, I prefer what we have here in Canada - with room for improvement.
 
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Kimmio said:
Yes and no. I agree that we have a social contract to live by certain laws that keep peace and order. In Canada, I think we have pretty fair laws. We have a "pretty good" system. We live, comparatively, in one of the best countries in the world. And we are pretty fortunate for that. I don't know how many you've met from places with way worse laws and bigotry and crises and way worse poverty - but we are fortunate. We can improve. But without basic laws, no I do not think people will just naturally treat each other well or not steal or harm each other. Certainly enough people would not. Especially in desperate times. If all of a sudden there were no laws - like when civil wars happen and there is sudden statelessness it is complete mayhem. No thank you. I do not trust the human condition enough to think that if laws ceased to exist some authoritarian arseholes wouldn't come along and make new worse laws anyway. And vigilante justice is not a just replacement. So...I am okay with servitude to fair laws while working to make them more fair within a structured system. That's ok with me.
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Do anti-social people abide by social contracts? I wouldn't bet on that either as I see chaos coming. Yet there are those that don't believe in chaos theory ... the chaos of passions causing us naïveté ... or even the chaos of a pile of words upsetting desires to do something stupid ... an opposing cause that isolated the medium ... thus the soul or bottom line is unavailable to us in real space ... it is beyond the polity and extremes! We outlanders look on ... except for those that can stand bloody humur and hue mist ... the splatter pattern used in fore NDs IHC investigation? They wait for what follows ... no vision ...

Real men support war ... it is a good business if you don't mind death. Now according to some women prefer non violent confrontation ... so recall that when crossing the line and meeting the Great Grandmother of all ... mitochondrial goo? It is an eternal sticking point ... can suck you right out of reality ... like a tacky myth about Heros ... that could be Neros with a slight err in translation of icons ... the "eta" in particular!
 
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