TRUMP - Some people think......... How do you feel?

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No. I won't. He demonstrates something other than what Jesus represents. If so called Christians are fooled by that and adore such a leader, I don't think they're being Christian in principle, at heart, only by name. It's one thing to believe in doing the right thing and not being exemplary at following it through but - forgiving and seeking forgiveness - recognizing errors, getting back up when one screws up and trying to do better. It's another thing to be totally committed to hateful, greedy, principles. That's not Christianity!
Doesn't matter what you think. They're still Christians. You don't get to make that call, just like they don't get to say you're not a Christian. Which they would do if they were here.


Self absorbed and hedonistic were serious observations. Heathen was more pejorative and I could've left it off - but I was pointing out how I'm used to the use of the word, even my own family amongst ourselves.
Right, so "heathen" was perjorative, which was my point from the outset, before you told me it was a flippant thing you called yourself.


So I'll go back to my original point, that you will identify him as a heathen in a pejorative fashion, but you won't admit that his campaign has been powered by Christians. That doesn't fit what you want to be true, so you'll insist they aren't Christians.
 
I'll say that the irony of using this song was not lost on the Donald. It is about what Christianity is not about. Christianity is about at the very least trying to follow Christ's example - even though mistakes are made, but believing he's got the right example. And, throughout the centuries many factions of institutional Christianity have not done that! That's the point. That's the point Jesus himself made when he overturned the tables in the temple - He's "God's son" - allegorically, a human example of what God expects from human behaviour and values. Put another way - he exemplifies our best chance at survival and maintaining our place in existence, and not destroying the human race. That's Christianity - following Christ's example - not "the man of wealth and (so called) taste". That's the wrong guy to follow. And that is a gut feeling. It can't be more succinct than that, than a belief - except to say "look at the consequences". Are the fruits "love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self control?" Does it look anything like that? No? Then it's not Christian teaching.

http://www.lyricsfreak.com/r/rolling stones/sympathy for the devil_20117881.html
 
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I don't think white supremacists who go to church carrying their bibles and their guns, to hear sermons loaded with fear and hate, are Christians. I don't think they're preaching anything that resembles Jesus. And anyone who sits there, and sees and hears that behaviour and it doesn't make them uncomfortable is not Christian.

Did you know that at the RNC convention they had, up on the big screen, online comments posted by a white supremacist group? The posts themselves were benign I think, those ones, but the group is not. And the live online discussion got so hateful and racist that the RNC mods had to shut it down.
 
And...I am hoping that Kaine and a more socially progressive congress can temper Hillary and she won't be so hawkish herself, as she may have been in the past. Her picking Kaine, shows that. I think she and Obama both had their hands tied by a Republican Congress - and Hillary was a bit Hawkish and she made mistakes. But I have more "faith" that she can change, she can cooperate and compromise, and the tone of politics there can change with a progressive democrat congress. I think she's safer and more reasonable -albeit imperfect -than Trump. I think the Donald will never change. At least - never say never - not nearly soon enough.
 
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I don't think white supremacists who go to church carrying their bibles and their guns, to hear sermons loaded with fear and hate, are Christians. I don't think they're preaching anything that resembles Jesus. And anyone who sits there, and sees and hears that behaviour and it doesn't make them uncomfortable is not Christian.

In the bible, God wipes out entire cities for their unrepentant "sinful" ways. In the NT, Revelation has been described here by people other than me as "horror porn".

Your happy-clappy version of Christianity doesn't square with the book it says it follows. These Christians will always wipe the floor with you in a debate about who is Christian and who is not. You have a book that contains a lot of hate, and so it has followers who harbour a lot of hate.

Deal.
 
In the bible, God wipes out entire cities for their unrepentant "sinful" ways. In the NT, Revelation has been described here by people other than me as "horror porn".

Your happy-clappy version of Christianity doesn't square with the book it says it follows. These Christians will always wipe the floor with you in a debate about who is Christian and who is not. You have a book that contains a lot of hate, and so it has followers who harbour a lot of hate.

Deal.

Humans tend to love fearful things ... thus horrors we cannot imagine ...
 
I don't think white supremacists who go to church carrying their bibles and their guns, to hear sermons loaded with fear and hate, are Christians. I don't think they're preaching anything that resembles Jesus. And anyone who sits there, and sees and hears that behaviour and it doesn't make them uncomfortable is not Christian.

Did you know that at the RNC convention they had, up on the big screen, online comments posted by a white supremacist group? The posts themselves were benign I think, those ones, but the group is not. And the live online discussion got so hateful and racist that the RNC mods had to shut it down.
What live online discussion Kimmio? I took part in the live video feed from the RNC and it wasn't shut down during the time I was on. Neither do I recall a shut down nor white supremacist messages being mentioned on the news.
 
In the bible, God wipes out entire cities for their unrepentant "sinful" ways. In the NT, Revelation has been described here by people other than me as "horror porn".

Your happy-clappy version of Christianity doesn't square with the book it says it follows. These Christians will always wipe the floor with you in a debate about who is Christian and who is not. You have a book that contains a lot of hate, and so it has followers who harbour a lot of hate.

Deal.
That hateful behaviour is not Christian. The haters will gravitate to the hateful stuff and miss the things that Jesus was pointing out. The hateful stuff is in contrast to Jesus of Nazareth. I'm not a happy-clappy Christian. I don't think Jesus was happy clappy either. He had a tough life, as we're told. Especially at the end of his natural life. He also called it like he saw it. He was rather abrasive at times, with those he challenged. That comes through in the stories. But he cared and he envisioned a peaceful, healed world.

Revelation, as I read it, is more of a warning. It's a weird cryptic dream/ vision. I believe that John who dreamt it up understood the bad things humans can bring upon themselves. And by being obsessed by that book, it brings out the worst. Like a self fulfilling prophecy. However, it ends well. But it's also chronologically not the last book to be written.

Since we're here moving the particles around - that we didn't create or create the potential for in the first place - for better or worse - how about trying for better?
 
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So, after this side trip into defining Christianity and interpreting the Book of Revelation (good luck on both of those, by the way) - back to Donald Trump and the presidential campaign.

I note today that after he was tamed a little bit by the teleprompter at the Republican convention he's now been set free and he's frothing at the mouth, threatening to put as much of his own money as necessary into efforts to destroy the political careers of Ted Cruz and John Kasich - both former rivals for the Republican nomination who refused to endorse him.

I've never really been convinced that Donald Trump actually wanted to be the President of the United States. I think he's surprised even himself by getting this far. I think he likes putting on the show, and I think he likes the attention he gets - because he is clearly a narcissist with an ego at least as big as any of the "Trump towers" that he's built. But whether he originally was serious or not, now I think he wants to prove all his critics and all his opponents wrong and show people just how big and tough and powerful he really is. If by chance he gets elected I don't think he'll even like the job - long hours, lots of work, lots of criticism, and he really can't do all that much unless Congress agrees, and there's enough people in his own party that don't like him that even if the Republicans maintain control of both the House and the Senate, he'll find himself blocked on a lot of things. He's not used to that. I assume that he has few checks and balances in the Trump organization. He runs the show, does what he wants and tells other people to do what he wants, and they do it. Being president will be very different. I could see him getting elected, getting frustrated with the job, and throwing his hands up and resigning after a couple of years - "let Pence do it."

Meanwhile, there's now pretty solid evidence that the Democratic National Committee (with support from some of Hillary Clinton's people) was indeed actively involved in efforts to undermine the Bernie Sanders campaign, and the chair of the DNC has resigned, although supposedly she's going to chair the convention and her resignation will take effect afterward - which could make for some interesting floor scenes with Sanders' delegates. Some of Sanders' supporters rallied at the convention site and took a page from the Republican playbook, chanting "lock her up!" in reference to Hillary Clinton.

This is getting ugly just within the respective parties. Once the Democratic convention is over, it will be interesting to see Clinton and Trump swinging at each other while still dealing with turmoil within their own parties. This presidential election is a true farce.
 
Thanks for the link Kimmio. You said tweets, but Time speaks of just one tweet. And while the Twitter account was white supremacist, the tweet was not racist. Still want to know what conversation you think was shut down.
There was a tweet on Monday by another group, the article states. The tweets were benign but others on their accounts are not (as you can see in the article).

This was the conversation I read about.
http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/u-s-election-2016/1.731920

This is really terrible. Really, he should've been out of the running long ago.
 
There was a tweet on Monday by another group, the article states. The tweets were benign but others on their accounts are not (as you can see in the article).

This was the conversation I read about.
http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/u-s-election-2016/1.731920

This is really terrible. Really, he should've been out of the running long ago.
Thanks again for the link. Seems some nutjobs did cause a shutdown. Course, there's no way of knowing whether they were genuinely Trump supporters. With the sneaky ways of the Democrats, they could have been plants. Props to the RNC for shutting down the stream. I do wonder why said shutdown didn't make the mainstream media. As for Trump himself - you say he should have been out of the race? Clinton shouldn't have even been able to run. We're clearly on opposite sides here Kimmio.
 
Like this:

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This is what Americans are dealing with. They want to present the illusion that they are not bigots, and that they have wide appeal. Show the hypocrisy. Make fun of the idiots. Make fun of them every time they do something stupid. Highlight the idiocy. Move from example to example. Make them laughingstocks.
Like this also
https://www.google.ca/search?q=hillary not a racist sign&client=ms-android-samsung&prmd=inv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwji77iF8o7OAhUDzmMKHd3KCG4Q_AUIBygB&biw=640&bih=279#imgrc=2y_OcFydgpLKUM:


This is what Americans are dealing with. Show the hypocrisy. Make fun of the idiots. Make fun of them every time they do something stupid. Highlight the idiocy. Move from example to example. Make them laughingstocks.

Funny how some people have turned Trump into a racist sexist criminal when Clinton's campaign has been all sexist n racist...ahh in group vs out group...g_d is all loving look at how he genocides people...ahh feelings and confirmation bias...:3

N now wikileaks has released thousands of Hillary emails...some showing how the DNC peeps were working against Bernie before Hillarys win was announced....ohh dirty n unfair tricks...
 
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