Transgenderism ..... ask your questions!

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Pr. Jae said:
Whereas I would do ministry with anyone so interested. Guess that makes me more inclusive. :LOL:
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I sincerely hope your "inclusiveness" never includes a person that happens to be transgender.
The tepid non-support that you offer is too dangerous.
Pat yourself on the back for being "inclusive" if you feel you must for it is a trophy for something you do not deserve.
 
RitaTG said:
Also offer the single stall washroom as an option but please make sure that it is clear that this facility is simply an option and that the person is not required or expected to use it.
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This aspect was an eye-opener for me. I'll have to think about how this impacts our church's washrooms.
In our main hallway we currently have two stalled washrooms, one each indicated for males and females, and a single stall with a sign on the door indicating that it is barrier free, gender neutral, and has an infant change table. I see now that this might make people feel that they don't have the option to use the room designated for the gender that they are regardless of how they present.

Is it okay to say "how they present"? It feels outdated, but I don't know how else to express the way that others may perceive a person's gender thereby judging which washroom they should be using.
 
Hilary said:
This aspect was an eye-opener for me. I'll have to think about how this impacts our church's washrooms.
In our main hallway we currently have two stalled washrooms, one each indicated for males and females, and a single stall with a sign on the door indicating that it is barrier free, gender neutral, and has an infant change table. I see now that this might make people feel that they don't have the option to use the room designated for the gender that they are regardless of how they present.

Is it okay to say "how they present"? It feels outdated, but I don't know how else to express the way that others may perceive a person's gender thereby judging which washroom they should be using.
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Thank you for your post Hillary...
Yes indeed .... "how they present" is a very accurate and proper way to address that aspect of the issue.
Please understand that not all of us will have the option to "present" as we wish.
However that does not change nor reflect upon our internal sense of gender identity.
Even when I am forced to present as a male (crossdress) I am still and always will be Rita.
Under those circumstances in lieu of the perception and for the comfort of others I will use a washroom that matches my presentation. I feel that this is an expression of empathy and kindness that I need to give.
But please keep in mind that a person who happens to be transgender and is in turmoil may feel welcomed and safe enough to dare to try an use a washroom at your church even though their presentation does not seem to fit.
It is at that moment that you have a vulnerable soul that is struggling to emerge.
What you as a church do and how you protect this person will be a huge contributor to their well being and their perception of God.
Thank you so much for asking!!
 
Rita we are quite aware of the trans washroom issue at the church I attend. One of our members is trans.. It is something that we considered when we were looking at alternate spaces. It was one (of many) issues discussed as we explored becoming affirming. We do not have nor are likely to get multi-stalled washrooms. We do need to add one more toilet to increase our building usage permit numbers. I am quite sure a 3rd single stall washroom will be added (exactly where a closet is now). That is the design of this building we rent.
 
Tabitha said:
Rita we are quite aware of the trans washroom issue at the church I attend. One of our members is trans.. It is something that we considered when we were looking at alternate spaces. It was one (of many) issues discussed as we explored becoming affirming. We do not have nor are likely to get multi-stalled washrooms. We do need to add one more toilet to increase our building usage permit numbers. I am quite sure a 3rd single stall washroom will be added (exactly where a closet is now). That is the design of this building we rent.
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Wonderful!!! .... now this is inclusive ministry in action!
thank you!
 
Hilary said:
You're going to put people in the closet?! ;)
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What, you don't have people in your closet? I have several in mine.:eek: I'm not actually sure who they are or how they got there. o_OThey just turned up one day. I offered them tea and goodies and they stayed.:D
 
Tabitha said:
Of course. all truly inclusive churches have a closet for those who would rather be in the closet.
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LOL ... I see the humour but there is also a more serious side.
Some of us may be out to just a few trusted individuals in the church and due to fear and perhaps family need to stay in the closet.
It is all actually very complicated but never ever easy nor straightforward.
 
Tabitha said:
Rita we are quite aware of the trans washroom issue at the church I attend. One of our members is trans.. It is something that we considered when we were looking at alternate spaces. It was one (of many) issues discussed as we explored becoming affirming. We do not have nor are likely to get multi-stalled washrooms. We do need to add one more toilet to increase our building usage permit numbers. I am quite sure a 3rd single stall washroom will be added (exactly where a closet is now). That is the design of this building we rent.
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Will the building owners let you put a new washroom in? If so, that'd be great. Single user washrooms are the way to go.
 
Pr. Jae said:
Will the building owners let you put a new washroom in?
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Quite probably they would, though the church will likely have to pay for it. All of my employer's offices are in rented space and the facilities are renovated to our spec and at our expense. The owner usually has their preferred contractors but sometimes even that is negotiable.
 
New building owners Jae. And as the long term plan is to tear down building for development Yes. I just know the closet is where there is plumbing.
 
Didn't Jesus say something about preying in the closet ... possibly because it had something to do with healing the soul and that was denied ... especially in Sundays on the coming down of the Shadow of the Law ...

Left us all in the dark as called for in Genesis 2:9 ... and the beginning of chaos of what's in the book on eternity ... more stirring things than you can comprehend ... being that accrued knowledge was out and something to be eternally gathered due to the spread of the pieces of God ...
 
RitaTG said:
This is wonderful!!!
This is what happens when we work together in a positive way.
Yes indeed more cities will take this up.
My city is doing the very same thing in their own way.
Thank you for posting this!
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I'm going to nose into what London is doing. I know the current administration is fairly forward looking socially (even if some of them are in the hip pockets of developers, but that's a different issue) so hopefully we are on track as Vancouver and Sudbury are.

Pride is looking like it will be bigger than ever here, with many public buildings that haven't flown the rainbow flag in the past hoisting it (police HQ, local naval detachment). And London Pride have made their peace with the BLM folks to preserve London Pride's longstanding close relationship with the local police so no disruptions a la Toronto seem likely and we will have a welcome police presence in the parade. My church will be there though not likely me (I'll possibly be away). Pride is the one event that does not require board approval for the congregational banner to be displayed. It was given a blanket approval years ago.

Footnote: Yes, London, an inland city, has a naval base. I've even been there a few times. It's on the river but has no ships. It's an administrative, training and, I think, intelligence gathering operation.
 
Mendalla said:
I'm going to nose into what London is doing. I know the current administration is fairly forward looking socially (even if some of them are in the hip pockets of developers, but that's a different issue) so hopefully we are on track as Vancouver and Sudbury are.

Pride is looking like it will be bigger than ever here, with many public buildings that haven't flown the rainbow flag in the past hoisting it (police HQ, local naval detachment). And London Pride have made their peace with the BLM folks to preserve London Pride's longstanding close relationship with the local police so no disruptions a la Toronto seem likely and we will have a welcome police presence in the parade. My church will be there though not likely me (I'll possibly be away). Pride is the one event that does not require board approval for the congregational banner to be displayed. It was given a blanket approval years ago.

Footnote: Yes, London, an inland city, has a naval base. I've even been there a few times. It's on the river but has no ships. It's an administrative, training and, I think, intelligence gathering operation.
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Wonderful :)
 
Mendalla said:
...London Pride have made their peace with the BLM folks to preserve London Pride's longstanding close relationship with the local police so no disruptions a la Toronto seem likely...
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I hope you're right. From the news reports, Toronto Pride felt they were at peace with BLMTO. The latter were invited guests at the Pride parade.
 
Pr. Jae said:

I hope you're right. From the news reports, Toronto Pride felt they were at peace with BLMTO. The latter were invited guests at the Pride parade.
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I know that they have taken advantage of the Toronto experience (since we're almost a month after Toronto) to learn. Also, Pride has a very good relationship with the current police administration here (note my mention of police HQ flying the rainbow flag) and would be loath to let that be endangered.
 
Mendalla said:
Footnote: Yes, London, an inland city, has a naval base. I've even been there a few times. It's on the river but has no ships. It's an administrative, training and, I think, intelligence gathering operation.
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Off topic response: If you're talking about HMCS Prevost, it is used for militia units. When I was still there, it was 22 Service Battalion and 4 RCR. There was also a Naval Cadet unit there. I think that may have changed since the base closed down, and became more of a militia centre. There is some kind of history about Prevost that is interesting. I can't remember it right now.

Back to the topic - Has anyone been watching America's Got Talent? There is a very open and funny trans woman comic who has gone to the next level. She has been very open, and in fact, last night spoke a bit about how she'd decided to live as a woman, and a little bit about her life as a man.

Here's a clip of her:

 
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