How do we know what is true?

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Maybe I do. I don't want a fight. I just want people to respect different modes and ways of looking at people, life, health, and well being. And sometimes something helps just because it does and a person feels better about their quality of life - which is as important as anything. I've met at least 100 people in my life, smart, stable, who feel similarly so at least i know it's not that crazy to think as I do.
 
Lastpointe said:
Kimmio

If doctors are meeting up with friends and colleagues and discussing mew treatments and meds they are still talking about well researched drugs. One may say that he has had good results with patient A taking this but all the rest will still look at the info and decide
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you put too much stock into the doctors and pharmaceutical companies when there bottom line is profits,

it was the Canadian government that had to step on after 10 yrs of deaths from percocets and opiate drugs that a law was pasts making the doctors now responsible for prescribing such drugs in large amounts

did you know thous painkiller drugs are superior to street harion , of course not the drug companies forgot that part


how convenient
 
Lastpointe said:
What on earth do you mean by

"In dependant studies based on unadulterated science"

All medical studies are funded. Of course they are . For millions of dollars. A lone doctor could not possibly fund a study.

My son participates in a study for the past 20 years. He started when he was 6. An asthma study run out of Atlanta With several thousand children around the continent.

But it cost millions. He was put on blind meds to assess their effect on asthma. He still has an annual checkup for long term effects.


It.is just an example of what is done to assess treatments. If this case, asthma meds had not yet been tested on children, just adults and so the study looked at all the growth parameters as well as effects of the meds.


Did money come from pharma? Likely. Did it affect how my son participated. No


You have some odd perception of medicine and scientific studies.
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Big pharma is not likely to fund a study about how to treat disease with garden plants that people can grow for free, are they? So even if what they make works, they want something that they can manufacture and sell most widely and doctors are their best distributors - of course - that's the business. Something readily available in nature and free is a threat to business. And some naturopathic gardener is not going to fund a study. They just use stuff because it works for them - from experience.

Granted, I think herbal supplements are too expensive and that is business too. It's easier to buy a bottle of herbal supplements at whole foods than to figure out how to grow my own and how many flower petals contain how much substance that I can ingest safely. So, naturopaths have made it more convenient and profitable too. I can live with that.
 
ChemGal said:
Is that an occupation, or a hobby?
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Does it matter? Perhaps it started as a hobby, an interest, for some and became an occupation? The field came about because of holistic remedies being used for years - things people grew in their gardens and knew about. ...something that has come about with how we look at this has to do with moving out of the rural agrarian economy into an industrialized economy, into marketing and commercialization...but that's history and sociology. It's all tied together (ichthys explained it beautifully).. And my brain is too fried now to try to communicate my intuitions and try to back them up with evidence you'll appreciate. So I give up. I am as I am.
 
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ChemGal said:
What do you mean by this?
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i mean, drug companies tell you what they want you to know and omit or play down what is not good, in today's political correctness world its called advertising , just like there small small really small disclosesers that no body can read or 300 words said in 2 secons on TV that leaves you with

what they say??????????????????????????????????
 
blackbelt1961 said:
i mean, drug companies tell you what they want you to know and omit or play down what is not good, in today's political correctness world its called advertising , just like there small small really small disclosesers that no body can read or 300 words said in 2 secons on TV that leaves you with

what they say??????????????????????????????????
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The drug companies forgot that the painkillers are superior to a street drug though? :confused:
@chansen is there some sorta translate tool or something?
 
Kimmio said:
Does it matter? Perhaps it started as a hobby, an interest, for some and became an occupation? The field came about because of holistic remedies being used for years - things people grew in their gardens and knew about. ...something that has come about with how we look at this has to do with moving out of the rural agrarian economy into an industrialized economy, into marketing and commercialization...but that's history and sociology. It's all tied together (ichthys explained it beautifully).. And my brain is too fried now to try to communicate my intuitions and try to back them up with evidence you'll appreciate. So I give up. I am as I am.
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I have just never heard of that term before.
 
is everything alright, blackbelt? usually when your posts have a lot of typos that means that you're angry or somehow stressed?

i hope things are ok
 
@ChemGal I was drawing a difference between a hobby farmer who just finds herbal remedies helpful - who may or may not start a small herbal supplement company - and a drug company worth loads of money that has a bottom line and is in business to get big and profitable and stay big and profitable. They are not going to fund a study on how to grow health remedies for free and they don't want it proven. That would change things a lot and not to their benefit. And not to the benefit of industry and trade and the GDP either. Make sense?

Now, marijauna is not for everyone (neither is a lot of things - like alcohol)...but it does help a lot of people. It obviously has chemical properties that not everyone will tolerate well. And there are studies to prove it works for some people after years of people using it anyway because it helped. How many hippies already knew that? Now look at how it is being controlled. It would be simple just to let people grow it if it helps them, and have doctors monitor problems they encounter with it, but there's no money in that.
 
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ChemGal said:
The drug companies forgot that the painkillers are superior to a street drug though?
:confused:
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superior in addiction and more mind altering than harion yep you got it! , how do I know??????????????

thous were my brothers drugs of choice, percets and opiets , he lost, the drugs won , 10 mths latter and many deaths, the Canadian government had to step in


so much for the truth of drug companies uh
 
Kimmio said:
Big pharma is not likely to fund a study about how to treat disease with garden plants that people can grow for free, are they?
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blackbelt1961 said:
100% correct
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No, 50% correct. Big pharma will not fund a study for any drug they can not patent. That's where universities and research hospitals need to jump in.

And sometimes they do. Sometimes, those studies are about homeopathic remedies. The more methodologically sound the study, the closer the effects of homeopathic remedies are to placebos, which isn't surprising, because there are no active ingredients left in homeopathic remedies once they are diluted.

Some naturopathic remedies have medicinal value. Some don't. As Chemgal pointed out, many drugs we use are derived from plants as well. Do you know why they are considered drugs and not "naturopathic remedies"? Because they were proven to work. A lot of stuff that falls under naturopathy is quackery, like homeopathy, but not all. We know some plant extracts have medicinal properties, and they are not regulated, so they are the domain of naturopathic doctors and some medical doctors who delve into those solutions. But homeopathy is all bulls**t.

We helped fundraising efforts to study the use of an old diabetes drug for brain injury repair. Drug companies are not interested, because the patent long expired. Sick Kids is working on it.

FFS, people. There are scientists trying to heal children's brains. There are scientists for big pharma, doing good work in areas that are patentable. Yes, people want to make money, but is it not better that diseases are cured and some people make billions as a result, than the disease is not cured at all? Regulatory bodies try to do their part. I've been around as my wife tried to clear FDA hurdles. They aren't trivial. Yes, some companies cut corners. Yes, some try to fudge results and ignore side effects. It's not a perfect system, but it's the best we've got, and far more people are alive than dead because of it.
 
chansen said:
No, 50% correct. Big pharma will not fund a study for any drug they can not patent. That's where universities and research hospitals need to jump in.
.
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the statement was this: "Big pharma is not likely to fund a study about how to treat disease with garden plants that people can grow for free, are they?"

big pharma will not fund something with NO or LIMITED possibility of profits , that is 100% true
 
Kimmio said:
Any way that diseases can be cured is good - why does it have to be tied to big pharma and big money?
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There are lots of small pharmaceutical companies too.
It isn't all tied to big pharma and big money. Where do you think that money goes from cancer runs and the diabetes campaigns? A fair bit goes to universities - grants that supervisors can use for research materials, instrumentation, paying a post doc, stipends for grad students, etc.
 
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