Muslims & Christians: Same God?
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blackbelt1961
Well-Known Member
it is the physical, or as you stated incarnate infinite unconditional Love of the invisible Creator of the universe
Isn't that in definite or thus a Complex Number compared to the physical hosts ... thus an imaginary quantity?
Really screws up surety ...
Delightful Life
M&M, Cascadian Lovers
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one can save 15% off their insurance by switching?
("I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life" = if you keep loving your neighbour as yourselves and never judging (=Jesus) and holding this above all else, then that is the only way to g_d (g_d=humanity existing in harmony with each other & reality)")
unconditional love is risen!
airclean33
Well-Known Member
No.
AIRCLEAN--Post--YES___YES___YES
John--post---
There may be a few who claim to have the Holy Spirit who believe that God exists in seven parts. They are mistaken.
Airclean--post--No John they are right,' an there is a GOD Family. I know, because I am a child that now belongs to it. There are million's of us . Through out the world and time.
John--post--
You appeal to Revelation 4: 5 and I believe that your reading of it is clearly in error.
This one, on the throne is clearly God.
Again, no doubt that the one on the throne is God.
Airclean--post--
Yes John The Head of The GOD Family sets on the throw". His make up, stands before it. 7 Seven torches of fire. Which are the Seven Spirits of GOD. Are you having trouble reading GODS Word?
John--post--
The 24 while also seated on thrones of their own are not seated on the one throne and definitely not God. God is not 24 Elders. We know from elsewhere in the book of Revelation that the 24 elders are the 12 children of Abraham who's families became the tribes of Israel and the 12 apostles of Jesus.
Airclean--post--What has what you posted to do with GODS Thrown? There will be many thrones set up in Heaven.
John--post--
The text does say that the seven flaming torches are the seven spirit of God. The text does not say that the seven spirits are God and it is clear from the translation that since none of these seven spirits are capitalized as is the case for the Holy Spirit there was no grounds for the translators to believe that these seven torches are God.
None.
Airclean--post--John I have never forced , or told any they must believe . What I believe . If you see this then John that's fine, We must all walk as we see. GOD BLESS.
John Post---
If the seven torches were the seven spirits of God why do the 24 Elders not identify them or worship them as God?
Airclean--post John I believe when the Hole of that which is . Sands there we kneel to that who is GOD.
John--post---
All crowns are cast at the throne upon which the one sits. That one is God.
Airclean--post--Yes John I agree this is God.
John --post---
Thank you for identifying your source. You may need to read him a little more closely. He is not saying what you believe he is saying and he is certainly not saying what you imagine the Holy Spirit to be telling you.
Airclean---post --You are welcome John. But This is not who my teacher is JOHN . Him and me and you Have but one teacher John, at least that's what I believe. It is GOD in form of The Holy Spirit . That is teacher to all who seek GOD." I have never said I don't think you are John. Thank you for your corrections and help to me as well.
--Rev John --post
In context the seven lamps are to be placed inside the tabernacle to give light. They are not described in this passage as being representative of the seven spirits of God.
Christianity is, for the most part, Trinitarian not Septarian as you appear to insist
Airclean--post--- John if I had it all right . There would be little need for me to still be on earth. I may be able to use that other thousand years
airclean33
Well-Known Member
Wrong post-------------------------------------
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blackbelt1961
Well-Known Member
let me help,
Is-ness
Is-ness does not work in a domain where all is in-definite as in that construed by mind as the fixated portion of society (as we know it) cannot deal with things that are not resolved ... thus confusion with future items!
Read Jamie Holmes tome on Nonsense ... the enigma of dealing with uncertainty principles with form of pun surely relates to God as beyond resolution ... except for those that definitely believe they can fit the eternal stretch into their pocket as a devilish satyr! Any solution in a storm is good to resolve these peoples frustration's with unacceptable variability!
Such pun, analogy causes them looking on with uncertainty ... to tend to humorous reaction ... or a rift that is good for soul. Many will deny this in their extreme tendency to sobriety!
It is hinted that there is a wee storm going on between the ears ... thus definition of incarnate (appearances as isn't)?
Such diversity within a well-spread mind could cause dissonance in a hollow deck hell bent on having things all one way ... and thus loops of mind sometimes appearing as loupes of Rome ... or solid thoughts disposed by excess passions!
These are all scattered all along the way of the train of thoughts as twin railings ... just to A' Muse the Excluded ... demons out there with the field of intellect?
However Holmes suggest it is not all up to what you know, or who you know but something beyond that as more extended in the Pan ...
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BetteTheRed
Resident Heretic
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If we could possibly get back to the point of the thread? It's clear that the Trinity concept is a real sticker to Muslim - Christian agreement on a common god-figure. (As it is with Judaism.) Here's a challenge: define the Christian god in such a way that it is clearly monotheist.
@BetteTheRed
Are you frustrated with the outside points as eliminated by Christian denial? If humans have dark cores will we be required to look beyond for Levites?
Are you frustrated with the outside points as eliminated by Christian denial? If humans have dark cores will we be required to look beyond for Levites?
BetteTheRed
Resident Heretic
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Wouldn't it be nice if the three Abrahamic religions, who CLEARLY are talking about the same god, could actually agree on that point? I'm never looking for a world religion, and I don't even think that it's necessary or even a good idea, but crikey, wouldn't it strike a major blow for world peace?
It couldn't happen unless the 3 parts could agree o their similar or common nature as being heavenly fallout ... created from dust out of space?
Volf stresses that in conversations with Muslims, Christians should stress the one essence of God.
Which is Volf's point - that followers of all three do worship the same God, within the context of political theology, whenever they love God and love their neighbors as they love themselves <3
Is that integration in a world stoically set to support segregation ... thus denial, or dissociation of the word and thus we loose the understanding thereof as wished? An indication that this is a place to support loss of mental function and stuff like PTSD? Any other is to be out of here and thus glimpses by some of OBI as seeing into the occult other side as despised by those settled here and now ... in light of our degenerating situation!
airclean33
Well-Known Member
--Yes Jae I could agree with this Idea of GOD. For what man really knows and understands what a Spirit person is made of . Or how many parts a Spirit can be. As GOD Him Self" seems to relate all humankind to one man. That being Adam.
For me, this debate about "sameness" is simply a matter of political correctness and a need to placate. The 2 key questions are: (1) Do we focus on similarities or differences in conceptions of God? (2) Is Jesus crucial to the debate or basically irrelevant or rightly marginalized?
I'm more interested in practical questions arising from legion testimonies of Muslim converts:
(1) Why are so many Muslims converted to Christianity through visions of Jesus, and yet, they never (to my knowledge) see Muhammad in their NDEs?
(2) Given that Muslims believe Jesus is a great prophet with a virgin birth, why are so many of them convinced of His true deity through these visions, even though the Jesus of these visions does not explicitly claim divinity? This insight is apparently conveyed to them nonverbally through these visions.
(3) Why are Muslim converts blown away by the teaching that Yahweh and His Son Jesus teach us to love our enemies, bless those who curse us, and turn the other cheek?
wh
I'm more interested in practical questions arising from legion testimonies of Muslim converts:
(1) Why are so many Muslims converted to Christianity through visions of Jesus, and yet, they never (to my knowledge) see Muhammad in their NDEs?
(2) Given that Muslims believe Jesus is a great prophet with a virgin birth, why are so many of them convinced of His true deity through these visions, even though the Jesus of these visions does not explicitly claim divinity? This insight is apparently conveyed to them nonverbally through these visions.
(3) Why are Muslim converts blown away by the teaching that Yahweh and His Son Jesus teach us to love our enemies, bless those who curse us, and turn the other cheek?
wh
In Chapter 12 of his book Allah: A Christian Response, Miroslav Volf asks his reader to consider - unless Christian and Muslim understandings of God were completely identical how would having a common God help? At best, he says, one group would see the other as heretics and be opposed to them in the name of the full truth about God and God’s ways with humanity.
Defenders of monotheism, he writes, have some ready responses...
1. Monotheism is no worse than polytheism in terms of making and keeping peace
2. Monotheism is democratizing
3. Monotheism is inclusive.
Volf then offers up two basic conditions of political pluralism...
1. The state is impartial towards all overarching interpretations of life.
2. Each religion is allowed to bring its own vision of the good life into the public arena and to do so by drawing on the resources of its own sacred books and traditions.
In sum, he says, many Christians and Muslims are committed to the following three propositions...
1. The one benevolent God relates to all people on equal terms
2. Love of neighbor demands that we grant the same freedoms to others that we claim for ourselves
3. There should be no coercion in matters of faith.
In addition, Volf gives two simple principles which he says Christians and Muslims must embrace to be consistent in their convictions about God...
1. All persons and communities have an equal right to practice their faith, privately and publicly, without interference by the state
2. Every person has the right to leave his or her own faith and embrace another.
Finally in this chapter, Volf gives his view on how believers in one God should, in a pluralistic world, understand the relation between religion and the state...
1. No identity between religion and state
2. No complete separation between religion and the state
3. Impartiality of the state toward all religions.
Defenders of monotheism, he writes, have some ready responses...
1. Monotheism is no worse than polytheism in terms of making and keeping peace
2. Monotheism is democratizing
3. Monotheism is inclusive.
Volf then offers up two basic conditions of political pluralism...
1. The state is impartial towards all overarching interpretations of life.
2. Each religion is allowed to bring its own vision of the good life into the public arena and to do so by drawing on the resources of its own sacred books and traditions.
In sum, he says, many Christians and Muslims are committed to the following three propositions...
1. The one benevolent God relates to all people on equal terms
2. Love of neighbor demands that we grant the same freedoms to others that we claim for ourselves
3. There should be no coercion in matters of faith.
In addition, Volf gives two simple principles which he says Christians and Muslims must embrace to be consistent in their convictions about God...
1. All persons and communities have an equal right to practice their faith, privately and publicly, without interference by the state
2. Every person has the right to leave his or her own faith and embrace another.
Finally in this chapter, Volf gives his view on how believers in one God should, in a pluralistic world, understand the relation between religion and the state...
1. No identity between religion and state
2. No complete separation between religion and the state
3. Impartiality of the state toward all religions.