Muslims & Christians: Same God?

[Luce NDs]

you share that trait with your dad ... hour father, heuristically? Such old logistic hum 'r ... logos related with loaded subtle powers? That's the power ... the lessor one, thus borrowed ... until the reciprocation, or (Cana) ballistic upset!

 

[Delightful Life]

@Pavlos Maros, yeah, I've enjoyed many a jawing session with Agent Geo on the original WC -- he's got a good sense of humour & is willing to riff

Ah, the old days *sniff* Can't ever get them back again...:3

 

[Luce NDs]

In the solid presence ... the past is all in the imaginary state of psyche ... incarnate (appearing as isn't) word that can represent thoughts as something desired to be gone by tyrants ...

Does mortal support a temporary vehicle for creation to hide artistic behaviours on this side of virtue? Talk about out of 'ere!


God'swords utilized in ear lopping?

 

[airclean33]

RevJohn, you make a lot of beautiful points. But before moving forward, I would like to wish you and the 'online' congregation a happy Easter! I pray that it would be a blessed time of reflection, introspection and commitment to self-improvement and growth anchored in firm trust in God.

Airclean--post--
I want to thank you ,for your above post. I hope you understand what I post about here. is in the same feeling.


--Jihad Mohammad Hyjazie--post--
I just want to share the Quranic perspective on the subject of God between the three religions which is captured in the following verses:

--Airclean--post-- Good I have wanted to know more about your belief's , as to try an understand the Muslim faith.-Salam-u-Alaikum .
Whe
--Jihad Mohammad Hyjazie--post-
"Say, ‘We have faith in God and what has been sent down to us, and what was sent down to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus were given, and that which the prophets were given from their Lord; we make no distinction between any of them and to Him do we submit.’" [2:136]

Airclean--post--Why then in Islam is there so much hatred towards . Israel an the Jews? The chosen of The GOD of Abraham. Jihad" when using the word GOD by saying LORD it is in capitals , unless you mean Lord Jesus . Who we Christians also Believe is GOD.


--Jihad Mohammad Hyjazie-Post--
"Say, ‘O People of the Book! Come to a common word between us and you: that we will worship no one but God, that we will not ascribe any partner to Him, and that some of us will not take some others as lords besides God.’" [3:64]

--Airclean--post--

--So here Jihad"--You seem to be saying GOD The Father is fine for us to worship. But to pray together we must not put Jesus as GOD , or The Holy Spirit as GOD. What will you say when you find in our belief , the fullness of GOD , is seven parts? I am sure if you didn't know . What I said here may give you some questions. There are many here that can help you . With answers if you need them.

Some I would like to know about your belief is .

Why the crescent moon and star?
You name for GOD Allah. I believe means number one GOD" . Or best of many Gods". Is this wrong?
Why do Muslims ,Pray to a black rock at mecca?
Thank you Jihad. May GOD be with you.

 

[Mendalla]

--So here Jihad"--You seem to be saying GOD The Father is fine for us to worship. But to pray together we must not put Jesus as GOD , or The Holy Spirit as GOD. What will you say when you find in our belief , the fullness of GOD , is seven parts? I am sure if you didn't know . What I said here may give you some questions. There are many here that can help you . With answers in you need them.

I will let @Jihad Mohammad Hyjazie deal with the rest of your questions, but the answer to this one may be within my knowledge (though Jihad may feel free to correct me). Muslims believe in the indivisibility of God. There is no basis in their theology for Jesus and the Spirit to be co-equal with the Father as in Trinitarian Christianity. Jesus and the Spirit, to the extent that Muslims believe in them, are from and of God but are not themselves God and not objects of worship ("There is no god but God and Muhammad is His prophet" as the Shahada says). Rather like Unitarian Christians (as distinguished from UUs, who can be, but are not necessarily, Christians).

 

[Luce NDs]

Why the crescent moon and star?

One needs a bright spot to guide one through a real world overloaded with experts on the eternal that have never experienced being behind the beyond state ... reality is really dark compared to Utopian Pragmatism that demands equality for all ... just not capital to those religions dependent on being better than the other ... thus the entire reality must be conquered and put down ... Eli-min-ated, or otherwise consumed by emotions?

 

[Luce NDs]

I will let @Jihad Mohammad Hyjazie deal with the rest of your questions, but the answer to this one may be within my knowledge (though Jihad may feel free to correct me). Muslims believe in the indivisibility of God. There is no basis in their theology for Jesus and the Spirit to be co-equal with the Father as in Trinitarian Christianity. Jesus and the Spirit, to the extent that Muslims believe in them, are from and of God but are not themselves God and not objects of worship ("There is no god but God and Muhammad is His prophet" as the Shahada says). Rather like Unitarian Christians (as distinguished from UUs, who can be, but are not necessarily, Christians).

Only in the real world ... in a virtue of indeterminate or good complexity all these spirits are mingled as entanglement of psyche ... a chord of given common thought? Did you know that hommoe was an old word for common and thus the homogenized milking of the spirit of reality by the surroundings indeterminately out-there (outlanders)? Webster defines intellect as beyond the emotional ...

 

[revjohn]

What will you say when you find in our belief , the fullness of GOD , is seven parts?

Who are you identifying as "our" with respect to your claim that God is actually seven parts?

 

[airclean33]

Who are you identifying as "our" with respect to your claim that God is actually seven parts?

Hi there Rev John -- Glad to hear from you again. It is those John who have GODS Holy Spirit , and GOD Himself is inside of. Try reading Rev 4:5--
Rev 4:5
From the throne issue flashes of lightning, and voices and peals of thunder, and before the throne burn seven torches of fire, which are the seven spirits of God; GODS Number is seven , it used to be eight.


But John I can give you more than that to read..

It's something I ran across in my study, GOD told me this John. It seems I am not the only one He told.--
Now the pupil may help the teacher.


DSBC Date: 4/1/07 PT: Ron Adema Text: John 19:31-37 Series: Easter 2007 File: D070401
THE DAY OF PREPARATION
We will begin by examining our lesson text by the following four homiletical points.
• Bodies on crosses (Jn.19:31, 42) bad news about Passover (Deut.21:22-23). • Break legs (Jn.19:32-34) good news about Christ (Num.9:12; Ex.12:46; John 19:33-36). • Believe Scriptures (Jn.19:35-37) good news about Christ (Ps.34:20; Zech.12:10) • Burial of Jesus Christ (Jn.19:38-41) good news about Christ (Isa.53:9) - underground disciples
“The Jews therefore, because it was the day of preparation (paraskeue), so that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath [for the Sabbath was a high (megas) day (he hemera)], asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.” (Jn.19:31; Ex.12:16 exceptions)
The NIV study bible offers the following footnote on John 19:31: “Preparation. See note on v.14. A special Sabbath. The Sabbath that fell at Passover time. The Passover meal had been eaten on Thursday evening, the day of Preparation was Friday, and the Sabbath came on Saturday.” WRONG!
This is normally true except for the national holiday such as Passover and Unleavened Bread. Once again, we mention a formula we learned in the study of Job: False assumptions lead to false interpretations that lead to false expectations that lead to false application.
This lesson will examine FIVE reasons these students of the Scriptures missed the proper interpretation of the “Day of Preparation and high Sabbath day.” .
Last Wednesday night (03/28/07) we studied the biblical history of the Passover and Unleavened Bread holiday. You are encouraged to study “The First Passover in Land” on our web site (doctrinal studies.com)
1. After the Dispersion, the Jews added Passover to Unleavened Bread into one eight-day national holiday.
By the New Testament time, these two holidays were known as one and their names used interchangeably (Luke 22:1, 7). Therefore, this eight-day holiday could be called by either of these names (Mark 14:1, 12, 16; 15:1, 42; 16:1-2, 9-13). Remember the Jewish day went from 6pm to 6pm.
During this time, the Jews used the term “Day of Preparation” interchangeably with Passover (Matt.26:17 20; Mark 14:1-2, 12; John 19:31, 42).
2. Roman theology changed the meaning of both the Greek words for preparation. (paraskeue) [to make ready a meal] as well as the Latin word for preparation (parasceve).
It was changed when they developed the doctrine of Good Friday for the crucifixion of Jesus. Their error was misunderstanding the details of the national holidays and Sabbath systems.
John 19:14 Day of preparation for the Unleavened Bread is Passover. It was based on a date not day, the 14th of Nisan. John 19:31 The next day after “the Day of Preparation” was called a High Sabbath. It was the first day of Unleavened Bread. It too was not based on day but on date, the 15th of Nisan. High Sabbath meant it carried the similar requirements of the weekly Sabbath, but it wasn’t Saturday.
John 19:42 “Therefore on account of the Jewish day of preparation, because the tomb was nearby, they laid Jesus there.”
3. The eight-day holiday of Passover (1 day) and Unleavened Bread (7 days) had four Sabbaths.
Three of these Sabbaths were called high days or high Sabbaths. Lev.23:4 says that the Lord appointed these feasts and the sacred assemblies (high sabbaths) and appointed their times. Nisan was the first month of the Jewish New Year based on the Exodua (Ex.12:1-2).
The day after preparation or Passover was always celebrated on the 15th of Nisan, which was the first day of Unleavened Bread. It was a High Sabbath (Ex.12:16; Lev.23:7). Remember the Jewish day went from 6pm to 6pm.
Next came the weekly Sabbath (always Saturday).
The day after the weekly Sabbath was Firstfruits holiday (our Sunday). It also was a High Sabbath (Lev.23:9-13; Num.28:26). Fifty days from it was Pentecost holiday (Sunday) (Lev.23:15-22; Acts 1-2).
The last day of Unleavened Bread (the 21st of Nisan) was a High Sabbath (Ex.12:16; Lev.23:8).
4. Now let us apply this to the week of the crucifixion, the burial and the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Nisan 14, the Day of Preparation or Passover took place on a Wednesday (April, of our calendar) in 30AD.
• This was the day of the Last Supper, Gethsemane, Jesus’ arrest, Judas’ suicide, the Jewish and Roman trials and the crucifixion - all taking place between 9am to 3pm, • Jesus died around 3pm on Nisan 14, 30 AD. Remember, the Jewish day was 6pm to 6pm. • The burial had to take place prior to 6PM on Nisan 14- BECAUSE THE NEXT DAY WAS A HIGH SABBATH (the first day of Unleavened Bread / Nisan 15). Nisan 15 High Sabbath Thursday Jesus’ body is in the grave Nisan 16 Friday Jesus’ body is in the grave Nisan 17 Weekly Sabbath Saturday Jesus’ body is in the grave [Mat.12:40; 16:21; 17:23; 20:19; 27:6-66; John 2:19-20; Luke 24:20-21] Nisan 18 High Sabbath (First Fruits) Sunday or first day of week.
• Resurrection of Jesus, prior to 6AM and the post-resurrection appearances begin (Luke 24:1, 6, 13). • Fifty days from Firstfruits was Pentecost (Lev.23:9-14; 15-22; Num.28:26-31; Deut.16:9-12) • The last day of Pentecost was a High Sabbath (Num.28:21) which also followed the weekly Sabbath. Nisan 21 High Sabbath Wednesday last day of Unleavened Bread.
5. Four of the seven national holidays of the Old Covenant were fulfilled beginning with this 8-day Passover of Jesus Christ (Luke 24:44-53).
• Passover (Nisan 14), Unleavened Bread (Nisan 15) Weekly Sabbath (Nisan 17) and First Fruits (Nisan 17). And 50 days from First Fruits is the Day of Pentecost, another High Sabbath. (Lev.23:21) • Nisan 14 (crucifixion of Christ) – Nisan 15, 16, 17 (burial of Christ) – Nisan 18 (resurrection of Christ) • Nisan 18 First Fruits (Sunday, the first day of the week) and seven Sabbaths to the day of Pentecost (50th day). • From Nisan 18 (resurrection of Christ), through the next 40 of the 50 days to Pentecost were the postresurrection appearances of Christ.

 

[blackbelt1961]

@Aircleen

God is Not 7 parts , you cant read brother, God is One , nore do all the born again believers I know believe that God is 7 parts

 

[Mystic]

What Bette the Redde doesn't grasp is that Jesus' claim in John 14 that He "is the Way, the Truth, and the Life" derives independent support from other claims of Jesus in other Gospels. So the real question is, What does Jesus mean by this?

 

[airclean33]

@Aircleen

God is Not 7 parts , you cant read brother, God is One , nore do all the born again believers I know believe that God is 7 parts

--I blackbelt --First see who is GOD talking to in Gen 1:26---Let US?

I was wondering if you believed Jesus was GOD?
Who is The Holy Spirit " blackbelt.
So let me get this right blackbelt. You don't believe in GODS Holy word The Bible.
Rev 4:5
From the throne issue flashes of lightning, and voices and peals of thunder, and before the throne burn seven torches of fire, which are the seven spirits of God;
What is it you believe in , then blackbelt?

 

[blackbelt1961]

--I blackbelt --First see who is GOD talking to in Gen 1:26---Let US?

I was wondering if you believed Jesus was GOD?
Who is The Holy Spirit " blackbelt.
So let me get this right blackbelt. You don't believe in GODS Holy word The Bible.
Rev 4:5
From the throne issue flashes of lightning, and voices and peals of thunder, and before the throne burn seven torches of fire, which are the seven spirits of God;
What is it you believe in , then blackbelt?

sorry aircleen, you cant read, no point in getting into a discussion with you, the reason why I did post to that God is NOT 7 parts but One, is because you always finish your post with , "God Told me" or " I am a born again" , as if your the only authority of scripture and clearly your not because there are Many born again who do not share any of your beliefs

 

[revjohn]

Hi there Rev John -- Glad to hear from you again. It is those John who have GODS Holy Spirit , and GOD Himself is inside of.

No.

There may be a few who claim to have the Holy Spirit who believe that God exists in seven parts. They are mistaken.

There is no text which teaches this to be so.

You appeal to Revelation 4: 5 and I believe that your reading of it is clearly in error.

At once I was in the spirit, and there in heaven stood a throne, with one seated on the throne!

This one, on the throne is clearly God.

And the one seated there looks like jasper and carnelian, and around the throne is a rainbow that looks like an emerald.

Again, no doubt that the one on the throne is God.

Around the throne are twenty-four thrones, and seated on the thrones are twenty-four elders, dressed in white robes, with golden crowns on their heads

The 24 while also seated on thrones of their own are not seated on the one throne and definitely not God. God is not 24 Elders. We know from elsewhere in the book of Revelation that the 24 elders are the 12 children of Abraham who's families became the tribes of Israel and the 12 apostles of Jesus.

Coming from the throne are flashes of lightning, and rumblings and peals of thunder, and in front of the throne burn seven flaming torches, which are the seven spirits of God;

The text does say that the seven flaming torches are the seven spirit of God. The text does not say that the seven spirits are God and it is clear from the translation that since none of these seven spirits are capitalized as is the case for the Holy Spirit there was no grounds for the translators to believe that these seven torches are God.

None.

And whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to the one who is seated on the throne, who lives forever and ever, the twenty-four elders fall before the one who is seated on the throne and worship the one who lives forever and ever; they cast their crowns before the throne, singing,

“You are worthy, our Lord and God,
to receive glory and honor and power,
for you created all things,
and by your will they existed and were created.”

If the seven torches were the seven spirits of God why do the 24 Elders not identify them or worship them as God?

All crowns are cast at the throne upon which the one sits. That one is God.

Thank you for identifying your source. You may need to read him a little more closely. He is not saying what you believe he is saying and he is certainly not saying what you imagine the Holy Spirit to be telling you.

Therefore, I believe the seven spirits of God refer prophetically to God’s complete essence (omnipotence, omnipresence, omniscience, sovereignty, righteousness, veracity, immutability, love, eternal life, and holiness).

Pastor Adema points to other texts which appear to support the position that he has taken and you appear to misunderstand.

Then I saw between the throne and the four living creatures and among the elders a Lamb standing as if it had been slaughtered, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth.

The idea of the seven spirits of God is repeated yet they are not here represented as seven torches but rather the seven horns and the seven eyes of the Lamb that looks like it has been slaughtered.

Pastor Adema attempts to link the seven lampstands of Revelation 4: 5 with Exodus 25: 37.

You shall make the seven lamps for it; and the lamps shall be set up so as to give light on the space in front of it.

In context the seven lamps are to be placed inside the tabernacle to give light. They are not described in this passage as being representative of the seven spirits of God.

Christianity is, for the most part, Trinitarian not Septarian as you appear to insist

 

[Jaebius]

--I blackbelt --First see who is GOD talking to in Gen 1:26---Let US?

I was wondering if you believed Jesus was GOD?
Who is The Holy Spirit " blackbelt.
So let me get this right blackbelt. You don't believe in GODS Holy word The Bible.
Rev 4:5
From the throne issue flashes of lightning, and voices and peals of thunder, and before the throne burn seven torches of fire, which are the seven spirits of God;
What is it you believe in , then blackbelt?

It's the seven-fold Spirit of God airclean. In the Bible the number 7 is often representative of perfection. God's Spirit is perfect.

 

[airclean33]

GOD is apart of all living. For He is Life it's self. We who have taken His Son Jesus Jesus The Christ , as Lord an Savior.Have become GODS Children. John 1: 12--13
Jhn 1:12But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God;

Jhn 1:13who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

[Pontifex Geronimo 13]

Lots of good reading here
If its not capitalized, its not God.
It is capitalized in NKJV on Biblegateway.
Makes airclean equally right!

Not really.
You need to read a bit more of Revelation to figure this out.
There is a lot of symbolic writing, and a lot of those symbols are also revealed.

The first mention of these seven Spirits is in Rev 1. There seems to be one for each church.

 

[Pontifex Geronimo 13]

I'd have to say I am with the trinitarians airclean.
But Mohammed, or whoever wrote the Quran thought that Christians believed that Jesus, Mary, and Allah made up the trinity.

 

[Luce NDs]

If God once had it all together ... mortal gods would chop it all up ... tis the way of the destructive advocates that leaves the essence you'aL god in spirit out there roaring in dark humour ... gods dark side when playing the sublime devil with the lesser peoples? They gather like old salts in a pickle dealing with fresh authorities waiting to control the world without clues (G'loose) of wisdom ... could appear like a barrelled monkey or a pickled Ka'ð ...

Wasn't Israel scattered at a time like that ?

 

[blackbelt1961]

It's the seven-fold Spirit of God airclean. In the Bible the number 7 is often representative of perfection. God's Spirit is perfect.

I find it funny that Aircleen would ask me
1) I was wondering if you believed Jesus was GOD?
2) So let me get this right blackbelt. You don't believe in GODS Holy word The Bible.