Spiritual But Not Religious? Please Stop Boring Me

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the global spiritual marketplace continues to grow and grow

there's room enough for all types on this beautiful orb

we are all unique snowflakes
just like everyone else :whistle:
 
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blackbelt1961 said:
Lillian Daniel
Pastor and author of "This Odd and Wondrous Calling"

writes

Spiritual But Not Religious? Please Stop Boring Me

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lillian-daniel/spiritual-but-not-religio_b_959216.html
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I get her point, however I think it was a bit smug sounding for a pastor. The whole self interest problem that cuts people off from community - is a big one. I think it's a big leap to assume all SBNR people are only interested in hiking and looking at sunsets by themselves, though. And I don't think it automatically means they have no interest in learning about ancient cultures. In a lot of cases, what I see out here are people who are just not interested in old fashioned church, or dogma. It was the church itself which scared them off. There are SBNRC (for Christian) people too, though. And also, look at the UU...it's a collection of people with different beliefs, learning about different ancient cultures, in community. That's a powerful cloud of witness in itself - that it can be done. And WC/WC2. I'm partial to being in a Christ centred community still but I think we shouldn't assume SBNR people are shallow or not interested in others, or in community, or in transformation.
 
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Its been years since I did a lot of travel, and then it was mostly by train. You sit down next to somebody, or they sit next to you. You exchange a few words. 'Nice day.' Then you either talk or not. If you're not in the mood for conversation, you pick up a magazine, or turn your head and look out the window, or close your eyes and pretend to rest a moment.

But if you both are ready for some light conversation, you try to find something in common. "What do you do?" "I'm a pastor."

What next? The person feels some response is appropriate, but they don't really want to go deep or be offensive so they say something about being spiritual but not religious.

Fine. The pastor can turn the conversation around - "What do you do?" "I'm a scientist. Right now I'm working on disease prevention in potatoes." "Fascinating - tell me about it."

Or they can stop the conversation by (a) pretending to sleep (b) starting their prayers (c) pulling out dozens of pictures of their children (this doesn't work with little old ladies who also have dozens of pictures of their grandchildren.) But it gets the conversation away from religion.
 
I think her point is the person who makes this statement as if they have some new idea

As if religious people are not spiritual

I get why she feels frustrated

I hope that if the opening arises she takes the time to explain why she feels otherwise. Just shutting down the conversation seems a bit chilly and not welcoming
 
"There is nothing challenging about having deep thoughts all by oneself. What is interesting is doing this work in community, where other people might call you on stuff, or heaven forbid, disagree with you."
While I agree the writer has an uncomfortably cynical view of the SBNR, I love this bit. Unfortunately, that sense of challenge in community doesn't always happen within the walls of a church. Instead of 'getting called on something' there seems to be almost an art to 'make them uncomfortable until they leave'. Conversations are often limited to bricks and mortar and status quo. I think the SBNR crowd may be unsatisfied with the church-types, or have inherited that dissatisfaction. I wonder what the 'god-in-the-sunset' people do when faced with the ugly bits, 'god-in-the-flattened-raccoon-beside-the-highway', or where they turned when faced with normal human crises of death, illness, betrayal, etc. That's what I might ask next. To be that challenge, even if this community is only as big and as lasting as seat mates on a single flight.
 
'god-in-the-flattened-raccoon-beside-the-highway' -- Thinking of using this in a sermon someday! Would you mind?
 
The writer is scared. As church attendance dwindles, you'll see more and more of this lashing out at the SBNR, atheists, UUs, liberal Christians, etc. It doesn't interest her? When is the last time a columnist wrote so passionately about something that didn't interest her? It interests her a lot. It probably scares her, as a pastor.

SBNR isn't challenging? In what way? I agree that belief is challenging, because I find it impossible to believe. To me, religious belief is completely unbelievable, and I would literally need to be medicated to believe, because otherwise it doesn't pass my internal bulls**t filters.

If "challenging" beliefs are the goal, then astrology must be pretty awesome to her. Does she know about homeopathy? Alien abductions?

People want to maintain a sense of wonder, and they don't want to call themselves "atheists" because that term has negative connotations. So people go with SBNR. I think that's fine. The important thing, is they aren't being instructed by 2000 year old myths. They have to think for themselves and run into challenges for which there are no pat answers, pretty much every day. That's the good sort of challenge. Struggling to believe or live up to some ancient con man's version of how you should live in a modern world isn't a challenge - it's stupid.
 
Chansen...I respect your beliefs. However, I have different beliefs and I don't believe they are stupid. There are no pat answers in my faith. And I have plenty of chance to think for myself. That 'ancient con man' does say some things in the Bible that I have a hard time adhering to, but I remember that his ideas were written down by others long after he was around and in a specific political/religious/social climate. My personal spirituality accepts a lot of the wonders that non-religious spiritual people see, but it includes a faith in God. Not a perfect faith. Not a faith that makes me a perfect person. But a faith that enriches my life and guides me to be a more giving and generous person than I might otherwise be.
 
Most of the people I've met who are SBNR are not necessarily reading the surveys and aware of the term Spiritual But Not Religious. They may say "I believe in a Higher Power but I don't go to church" or "I believe in Karma" or fairies or yoga whatever it is they're into but they just don't associate themselves with a religious institution. I don't think they never ask the existential questions.

I see belonging to a religious institution to be the main distinction.
 
religion , from wikipedia :


A religion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence.[note 1] A critique of Geertz's model by Talal Asadcategorized religion as "an anthropological category."[1] Many religions have narratives, symbols, and sacred histories that are intended to explain the meaning of life and/or to explain theorigin of life or the Universe. From their beliefs about thecosmos and human nature, people derive morality, ethics,religious laws or a preferred lifestyle.


everyone has a belief, even atheist,
 
I would say that the UU are not religious but some of them are very spiritual.
One person that I can think of who is not religious but is the most spiritual person I know - Carolyn McDade.
 
crazyheart said:
I would say that the UU are not religious but some of them are very spiritual.
One person that I can think of who is not religious but is the most spiritual person I know - Carolyn McDade.
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Many, perhaps most, of us UUs are both. We would not be part of a religious organization if we did not value religion in some way.

I think that the problem is that there are many flavours of SBNR.

For some, it's just something they toss around to explain why they are not in church. They are really not particularly spiritual but feel they can't just say "I don't go to church because it's boring" or "because I think it's useless". If you honestly do not want to be in church, then say that. Don't use the SBNR line unless you really are interested in spiritual matters.

Then there are the seekers who find traditional religious institutions too restrictive but still pursue spiritual quests in various ways, whether that's reading, listening to Tapestry, viewing Great Courses videos, getting out into Nature, or whatever. I was there for a while myself. Some will always be this way, some will eventually land back into some kind of organized faith.

And there are those who simply do not see the need for formal religion but who still feel a deep connection to Existence. They may live that connection through good works, sharing and caring, and so on.

IOW, don't tar the SBNR with one brush any more than you would tar Christians, UUs, atheists, or any other group with one brush. There are variations and shades of understanding.
 
blackbelt1961 said:
I think that is the point as well

is it possible to be spiritual with no religiosity , I don't think so
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Agreed. What people who say "spiritual but not religious" really mean is "I have spiritual beliefs but don't find a place for myself in organized religion". They may well read religious texts and have personal rituals, but do not participate in a community.
 
I didn't think that her problem was with the fact that her seat-mate was spiritual but not religious, but that when her seat-mate found out her profession she felt compelled to discuss it.
 
Well, if a religion is a formally organized spiritual organization, then every religionist is necessarily spiritual. But one can, of course, be spiritual without belonging to or participating in formalized religion. When people say that they are "spiritual but not religious," they probably mean the latter.
 
I see nothing wrong with being spiritual without "religion". It doesn't mean to me that you abandon God, just that you abandon some construct that may limit ones spiritual nature. I personally choose the church to encourage that pursuit, others may not, but eventually I think we all seek fellowship in some form or another because even our spirituality on it's own builds constructs of how we view God. We don't sit in front of a cross believing it's God, it has meaning. I can still sit quietly and see the sun set and not see the sun as God, but I can definitely see His majesty.
 
Hermann said:
Well, if a religion is a formally organized spiritual organization, then every religionist is necessarily spiritual. But one can, of course, be spiritual without belonging to or participating in formalized religion. When people say that they are "spiritual but not religious," they probably mean the latter.
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I think the flip side is that there comes a point for some for the "organization" part trumps the "spiritual" part and then you get into "religious but not spiritual". I doubt anyone would admit to that one as readily as people do to "spiritual but not religious" but it is sometimes quite evident when a person or community has slipped into that mode. Churches where discussion of God and related matters gets trumped by debates over manuals and by-laws and similar phenomena.

IOW, there is a need for community in one's spiritual life but there is also a need for spirituality in a community's life and it is the lack of that element that may be leading some to the "spiritual but not religious tag".
 
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