Women speak in Bible

[Oui]

I agree with some of what you're saying Oui. If God is wisdom, I think everyone can agree that wisdom is not exclusive to one gender. It is our minds that are to be renewed and opened. So if God plunks Himself in a patriarchal society, what gender is he going to use so that ALL minds will hear this wisdom? It's the words we are to hear, but yes, unfortunately "authority/truth" can be wrongly interpreted by learning only from what we see instead of what we hear and reason.

So, Almighty God itself puts itself inside a tiny gender box? Or was God put there by that gender? Honestly, which scenario is the most logical?

All minds may have heard the wisdom, but female minds were excluded from contributing to it through writing, doctrinal development and clerical position. I think the connection to the gender box that God has been created in is obvious.

 

[Oui]

And how does the archeological world represent God as the wind? or fire? because God has been known to show up in these forms too. A hen, not an eagle? Birthing a nation?
What gender is the Holy Spirit?

I think there are examples that God is not defined by patriarchy, but yes, probably not enough focus has been placed on this.

The scripture has greatly out weighed the archaeology. I think God is completely defined by patriarchy because the scripture writers and editors, whom we must rely on, were exclusively men, with all of their male perspectives.

This is natural, of course, men can only think as men. I've owned horses for decades, horses are natural prey animals, humans are natural predators, that is ingrained in the way we think and behave. The biggest mistake people make with horses is approaching them, naturally, like a predator, without really realizing they do it. This provokes a wary at best, fearful at worst reaction from the horse. It usually ends up that whatever works for a human is the opposite for a horse.

So it is with male thinking vs. female thinking. Without an authentic female voice in the scripture and/or development process, I don't think true balance can really be achieved. The time has long passed.

 

[Jaebius]

The scripture has greatly out weighed the archaeology. I think God is completely defined by patriarchy because the scripture writers and editors, whom we must rely on, were exclusively men, with all of their male perspectives.

This is natural, of course, men can only think as men. I've owned horses for decades, horses are natural prey animals, humans are natural predators, that is ingrained in the way we think and behave. The biggest mistake people make with horses is approaching them, naturally, like a predator, without really realizing they do it. This provokes a wary at best, fearful at worst reaction from the horse. It usually ends up that whatever works for a human is the opposite for a horse.

So it is with male thinking vs. female thinking. Without an authentic female voice in the scripture and/or development process, I don't think true balance can really be achieved. The time has long passed.

Let's say for the sake of argument Oui that everything you say is correct. A patriarchal God had patriarchal men write patriarchal words for patriarchal people. What would you have us do about that situation?

 

[Waterfall]

Oui, I would be hard pressed to find a book written by a woman in ancient times period, whether they are Christian, Muslim, Jewish or pagan when speaking of that part of the world. Women did have their moments. There were rulers of Egypt that were women. Cleopatra,Hatshepset, Meryt-Neith, Nerfititi. Most of what they had to say we can only know by what is preserved in archeology. The Oracle of Delphi was a woman and her advice was sought after. The average woman did not have such a powerful voice, but I find it arrogant to think that woman in ancient times were as silent as we believe them to be.

As a woman, I agree, I would have preferred more writings by women. Maybe there was, but then the library at Alexandria that contained much wisdom, was destroyed by fire and much was lost. We see it happening today with Isis destroying Nimrud and all of the historical sites that will be lost in order to cleanse the region of it's identity.

 

[Waterfall]

Well it appears I was wrong! Gasp!

Here are some women writers in ancient Greece:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Ancient_Greek_women_writers

 

[Waterfall]

In India during the vedic period, women were educated, equal, no caste system, chose their own husbands, equal during religious ceremonies, wrote poetry, etc....

Maybe we are conditioned to believe that Mathew, Mark and John were written by men without thinking there is a possibility they were written by women?

 

[blackbelt1961]

Its not a conclusion its fact. The men who wrote the texts were speaking for/about the women. The women did not write it themselves, so it doesn't come from a truly authentic voice. The prophetess may have experienced it entirely differently, we'll never know because her version was never preserved.

authenticity is not based on gender , never was , never will be, as far as the prophetess they were in accord with the prophets

you are assuming

So, you think spiritual experience is not a human condition? As humans, when one is fortunate enough to have a divine spiritual experience, one thinks about it, perhaps meditates on it, and of course interprets it. I don't believe the biblical authors were simply taking dictation from above. The human factor in the scriptures is all too evident.

and thus the Life , Death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ that validated ALL that the prophets and prophetesses , wrote and said

with Christ its no longer a human subjective experience but the inspired word , no other spiritual leader , past , present and future can came that

Your denial cannot change the well documented history of exclusive male control of the scriptures, doctrine and teaching.

if your basing this on Catholicism , I would agree with you, if your basing it on Christianity explosion of the early church , hmmmm i think not

So can't women have "true" spiritual experiences of the Creator? Surely there had to be at least one female religious scholar in the last 3000 years.

they do and there is , I already pasted a link for you

Or was it because Judaism, Christianity and Islam have been 100% dominated by men, and the familiar male spiritual experience recorded exclusively by men in scripture felt threatened by the unfamiliar female spiritual experience.

of course that is not true since the prophets thought very importation to include the female inspiration of God

Again, surely the Creator of the Universe could find a way to include women somewhere in the process.

again God created you , and all the millions of woman world wide in Christ service

That didn't happen,

it didn't happen or you refuse to look at it other than through the lens of gender-ism ?

which I think pointedly marks the scriptures as man made-up.

it logically does not follow that the truth of a written piece would be based on the authors gender

totally irrational[/quote][/QUOTE]

 

[Waterfall]

Did Mary Magdelene write the Gospel of John?

http://ramon_k_jusino.tripod.com/magdalene.html

 

[Oui]

Let's say for the sake of argument Oui that everything you say is correct. A patriarchal God had patriarchal men write patriarchal words for patriarchal people. What would you have us do about that situation?

An excellent question. First, I never said God was patriarchal. And it doesn't even matter if the authors were patriarchal, the point is the drastic imbalance of male to female contributions.
I don't know what the solution will be, I think it can only come through awareness and education about this matter. This has, and will continue to empower women's voices around the world. A key question is, will women even want a fully developed male institution? Is there ultimately any room for women there, when no rooms have been built for them? Will women eventually develop their own style of spirituality outside of the established institutions?

 

[Oui]

Oui, I would be hard pressed to find a book written by a woman in ancient times period, whether they are Christian, Muslim, Jewish or pagan when speaking of that part of the world. Women did have their moments. There were rulers of Egypt that were women. Cleopatra,Hatshepset, Meryt-Neith, Nerfititi. Most of what they had to say we can only know by what is preserved in archeology. The Oracle of Delphi was a woman and her advice was sought after. The average woman did not have such a powerful voice, but I find it arrogant to think that woman in ancient times were as silent as we believe them to be.

As a woman, I agree, I would have preferred more writings by women. Maybe there was, but then the library at Alexandria that contained much wisdom, was destroyed by fire and much was lost. We see it happening today with Isis destroying Nimrud and all of the historical sites that will be lost in order to cleanse the region of it's identity.

Exactly! Women were not totally silent in ancient times, they were silenced by others, who actively excluded their contributions, and at times did that violently.

 

[Oui]

Well it appears I was wrong! Gasp!

Here are some women writers in ancient Greece:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Ancient_Greek_women_writers

Perpetua was a female 3rd century Christian martyr who wrote about her experience while imprisoned.

 

[Jaebius]

An excellent question. First, I never said God was patriarchal. And it doesn't even matter if the authors were patriarchal, the point is the drastic imbalance of male to female contributions.
I don't know what the solution will be, I think it can only come through awareness and education about this matter. This has, and will continue to empower women's voices around the world. A key question is, will women even want a fully developed male institution? Is there ultimately any room for women there, when no rooms have been built for them? Will women eventually develop their own style of spirituality outside of the established institutions?

Thing is Oui, I don't perceive there to be a problem that needs fixing. I believe that God is sovereign and chose to work as God saw best. If that meant primarily using male authors, so be it.

 

[Oui]

authenticity is not based on gender , never was , never will be, as far as the prophetess they were in accord with the prophets

you are assuming

and thus the Life , Death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ that validated ALL that the prophets and prophetesses , wrote and said

with Christ its no longer a human subjective experience but the inspired word , no other spiritual leader , past , present and future can came that

if your basing this on Catholicism , I would agree with you, if your basing it on Christianity explosion of the early church , hmmmm i think not

they do and there is , I already pasted a link for you

of course that is not true since the prophets thought very importation to include the female inspiration of God

again God created you , and all the millions of woman world wide in Christ service

it didn't happen or you refuse to look at it other than through the lens of gender-ism ?

it logically does not follow that the truth of a written piece would be based on the authors gender

totally irrational

[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

So, if the dissemination of truth is not based on gender, as you say, then why are female contributors completely absent?
What is truth but our own individual experience of it? Since the scriptures and all doctrinal development were entirely controlled by men, then the imbalance becomes clear. Its all from a male point of view over many books, thousands of years, all male authors. The male truth. The female experience is absolutely non-existent. We may have more insights to offer, but have never had the chance.

The inclusion of the prophetesses is worthy, but not one of their stories was written by them, the authors were male with male perspectives, crafting it all into their own agendas, and perhaps decades or even centuries later. Just imagine what we could have learned first hand from a great prophetess! I don't think that her words would have been absolutely identical to the scripture version.

 

[Delightful Life]

hi there @Oui, glad to see you've made it, here :3 like your avatar

 

[Oui]

Thing is Oui, I don't perceive there to be a problem that needs fixing. I believe that God is sovereign and chose to work as God saw best. If that meant primarily using male authors, so be it.

We can agree to disagree.

 

[Oui]

hi there @Oui, glad to see you've made it, here :3 like your avatar

Thanks! Nice to be back!

 

[blackbelt1961]

[/QUOTE]

So, if the dissemination of truth is not based on gender, as you say, then why are female contributors completely absent?

[/quote]

because you refuse to see the woman role in Gods Kingdom

What is truth but our own individual experience of it?

that would be subjective truth , in this case we are talking about absolute truths, since we are dealing with the absolute, aka The Creator

Since the scriptures and all doctrinal development were entirely controlled by men, then the imbalance becomes clear. Its all from a male point of view over many books, thousands of years, all male authors. The male truth. The female experience is absolutely non-existent. We may have more insights to offer, but have never had the chance.

see what your doing is reducing a human being to a body part and then declaring that the Devine can only deliver so much truth to its subject because of gender

completely irrational

Just imagine what we could have learned first hand from a great prophetess! I don't think that her words would have been absolutely identical to the scripture version.

that would depend, if the prophetess was listening to the Creator, her version as is the prophets of scripture would be the same message inline with Gods plan, why you ask , because there is no contraction by the nature of Truth itself.

for example, there are alot of woman physic mediums today, yet there messages are all over the map, even contradicting themselves , clearly there is no truth in a message that is contardictive, and there for not of the Creator

 

[crazyheart]

Glad to see you back, Oui. It has been awhile.

 

[Oui]

So, if the dissemination of truth is not based on gender, as you say, then why are female contributors completely absent?

[/quote]

because you refuse to see the woman role in Gods Kingdom

[/QUOTE]

So what exactly do you think is my role in God's Kingdom?

 

[blackbelt1961]

So, if the dissemination of truth is not based on gender, as you say, then why are female contributors completely absent?

because you refuse to see the woman role in Gods Kingdom

[/QUOTE]

So what exactly do you think is my role in God's Kingdom?[/QUOTE]

Just like all other women and men the body of Christ is served from the feet to the head , wether big or small are all near and dear to God , where ever you find your self , it's between you and God