William James "The Will to Believe"

[jimkenney12]

Why do you use strong language in criticizing people believing some you do not? Why do you want people to prove experiences they have?
I had a surprising spiritual experience on Grade nine that was as real to me as the songs of the meadowlarks I heard while waiting for my bus many mornings. My interpretation of that experience was that someone or something I still do not understand communicated to me. You are free to interpret my experience as an auditory hallucination, and I would have no problem with that. I would have a problem if you demanded that I proved I had the experience.

Many people have experiences they interpret as possible or probable evidence for a divine presence. Other people can question their interpretations. It is rude to deny their experiences, but not rude to question their insistence that their experience is proof of a divine being.

 

[BetteTheRed]

@jimkenney12 I am delighted to let you know that you and @Pavlos Maros are experiencing a cultural disconnect that I would like to help correct, having feet in both camps, as it were, if I may.

Firstly, "strong language" in the UK is normative. In fact, the more apparently offensive the language, to some degree, the more the respect/liking. Secondly, the U.K. is very secular, and so any religious feeling is often, by default, somewhat suspect.

So, as you were...

 

[Delightful Life]

^ There should be a Helpful Helper Like :3

 

[Pavlos Maros]

Why do you use strong language in criticizing people believing some you do not?

Strong language? please elaborate. And where have I criticized anyone?

Why do you want people to prove experiences they have?

I don't really care what people believe but if they claim it as a truth, or want it to be taken seriously then they would need to have prove there experience is or can be verified.

I had a surprising spiritual experience on Grade nine that was as real to me as the songs of the meadowlarks I heard while waiting for my bus many mornings.

Yes and I've seen ghosts but I don't claim them to be true I merely look for a logical reason for them if I cant, I say I don't know at the moment.

My interpretation of that experience was that someone or something I still do not understand communicated to me.

Yes and that's lovely for you. However can you show it actually happened. So that others can know as assuredly as you.

You are free to interpret my experience as an auditory hallucination, and I would have no problem with that.

That is all it can be claimed as being by you. Until you show otherwise, the onus is yours.

I would have a problem if you demanded that I proved I had the experience.

But I don't demand, however if you wish to claim it as a truth then the onus is on you, it is your burden.

Many people have experiences they interpret as possible or probable evidence for a divine presence.

And that's great for them, but they still have the same burden you do.

Other people can question their interpretations.

Which they do and it is why when making a truth claim you will need evidence other than pure anecdotal.

It is rude to deny their experiences,

Why?

but not rude to question their insistence that their experience is proof of a divine being.

How is it rude to ask a person to show what they are claiming to be true is true?
If I claimed as a truth that there was a Harley Davidson orbiting the moon with a monkey as it's rider wouldn't you want me to prove it. Or any supernatural claim for that matter.
If anyone is claiming a truth then they will need to prove that. The burden is always theirs. However no one is demanding they do prove it, they can keep it to themselves and carry on living their lives in blissful ignorance. Now if they wish to claim to others that it is a truth. Then they would need to show that it is a truth and they are telling the truth.

 

[Luce NDs]

@jimkenney12 I am delighted to let you know that you and @Pavlos Maros are experiencing a cultural disconnect that I would like to help correct, having feet in both camps, as it were, if I may.

Firstly, "strong language" in the UK is normative. In fact, the more apparently offensive the language, to some degree, the more the respect/liking. Secondly, the U.K. is very secular, and so any religious feeling is often, by default, somewhat suspect.

So, as you were...

Language is the qui ... respect what you cannot read into it may be alien but a buried talent!

In there somewhere is a story, legend or other myth spread by myrtle ... and others! Some autonomous like Auto ... the travelling M'N as a MU's ...

There is a news article that states Michael Muse is failing ... so it goes! Thus the abstract folly ... dreams collapse?

 

[Luce NDs]

Strong language? please elaborate. And where have I criticized anyone?

I don't really care what people believe but if they claim it as a truth, or want it to be taken seriously then they would need to have prove there experience is or can be verified.

Yes and I've seen ghosts but I don't claim them to be true I merely look for a logical reason for them if I cant, I say I don't know at the moment.

Yes and that's lovely for you. However can you show it actually happened. So that others can know as assuredly as you.

That is all it can be claimed as being by you. Until you show otherwise, the onus is yours.

But I don't demand, however if you wish to claim it as a truth then the onus is on you, it is your burden.

And that's great for them, but they still have the same burden you do.

Which they do and it is why when making a truth claim you will need evidence other than pure anecdotal.

Why?

How is it rude to ask a person to show what they are claiming to be true is true?
If I claimed as a truth that there was a Harley Davidson orbiting the moon with a monkey as it's rider wouldn't you want me to prove it. Or any supernatural claim for that matter.
If anyone is claiming a truth then they will need to prove that. The burden is always theirs. However no one is demanding they do prove it, they can keep it to themselves and carry on living their lives in blissful ignorance. Now if they wish to claim to others that it is a truth. Then they would need to show that it is a truth and they are telling the truth.

Onus is a powerful culpability that some cannot handle well by retention ... in western business circle of great industry; I was told to keep all intelligence to myself and thus alien language that is powerful in causing those seized to react! Thus intelligence has its folly as it rises and has follies in a form of cyclic reckoning ... few folk recon where it came from ... as generally it was from the nothing performance ... an unseen item of contention for secularity!

Nothing seems to penetrate space and time as words laid out on a medium ... and we ask what is a medium but a black slate? Abstract? You may even bet on it that there are places representing nothing ... abysmal?

Thus said there is nothing to it ... it was so disposed ... someone said a cut out ... punch drunk domain?

Literature is something else ... and few understand what is laid out there in plain sight ...

Complex? No, just sophisticated how it goes around in the psyche ... virtually unseen ... the island of Maan? All in your imagination they say ... the Magi of comprehension of some hens retching ... about what's with the rooster! Peter Prin. ad continuum ... Top Guns and Bottom Canon as laid out in a loupe ...

Many are caught in the second itch ... that Beta!

Exactly! Nothing of secular power is rational ... rationality is un reckoned in secularity ... tis beyond us as an aura ... on fore that's L'aura ... a prickly concern (at one time; AN or ANis even if unseen). Travels well ... unlike some wines ... thus it R.I.P. 's! That silence within???? Now it is done, gone ... wasted as defined by prodigal ... well composed so few grasp? Hang on ...

 

[jimkenney12]

Thank you, Bette the Red.

Pavlos Marcos, I do not expect you to believe that I have had the experiences that I have had. I know that most people have trouble accepting descriptions of experiences they have not personally experienced. It is why it has taken centuries for women to get doctors to accept their realities. It is why wealthy people have no conception of the experiences of people in deep poverty and why white people have trouble accepting the reality of the experiences of other people.

I also know that spiritual experiences can be explained as hallucinations. For example, NDEs can be explained as responses by some part of the brain to provide peace to the person in deep distress. A similar response is often seen in prey animals when a predator is about to finish them off.

Experiences of synchronicity can be written off as coincidences.

I know that it is my choice to interpret my experiences in the way that I do. I do not expect anyone to believe what I believe because of my experiences. I share my experiences so others may understand why I am who I am. I believe each of us has a different relationship with the universe and our own particular set of beliefs. I prefer people being atheists like you to people believing they have some great truth that needs to be imposed on others.

 

[Luce NDs]

Thank you, Bette the Red.

Pavlos Marcos, I do not expect you to believe that I have had the experiences that I have had. I know that most people have trouble accepting descriptions of experiences they have not personally experienced. It is why it has taken centuries for women to get doctors to accept their realities. It is why wealthy people have no conception of the experiences of people in deep poverty and why white people have trouble accepting the reality of the experiences of other people.

I also know that spiritual experiences can be explained as hallucinations. For example, NDEs can be explained as responses by some part of the brain to provide peace to the person in deep distress. A similar response is often seen in prey animals when a predator is about to finish them off.

Experiences of synchronicity can be written off as coincidences.

I know that it is my choice to interpret my experiences in the way that I do. I do not expect anyone to believe what I believe because of my experiences. I share my experiences so others may understand why I am who I am. I believe each of us has a different relationship with the universe and our own particular set of beliefs. I prefer people being atheists like you to people believing they have some great truth that needs to be imposed on others.

Perhaps we should just observe what is presented for later reckoning ... thus it hangs there ... awaiting the alternate unknown ... when absolute and abstract cojoin and the secular is no more ... Dr. Dourley called this the sacred marriage ... an essence ... ektoplasm?