Angels may appear as function of rogue vision ... sideways glance! Redacted this is a toady aside ... wort-Heh as quantum space ... virtue of Uncertainty Theo-rye fermenting ... bare with me!
Why Did God Create Angels ?
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Angels may appear as function of rogue vision ... sideways glance! Redacted this is a toady aside ... wort-Heh as quantum space ... virtue of Uncertainty Theo-rye fermenting ... bare with me!
Imagination ... a fiction of mine 'd in a lo' spot? Are "don's" curios as father images?
unsafe
Well-Known Member
Here is a real criss angel -----Illusionist ---- Believe ---same as what the Bible says about God -----John 3:16- For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
his logo notice the crown on the head ----
----Jesus with crown ---
Cat around next ----
------Jesus with lamb ---
Then there is this ---walking on water ----Criss Angel Raise The Dead ----levitates -----walks through solid objects ----etc ---all tricks for entertainment ----making a fortune - posing as an angel ------ but we don't mind him being worth --$50 million dollars -----spending it on more Illusions and his own needs -----to make more money for the dark side in my opinion ------
Criss Angel net worth: Criss Angel is an American illusionist, magician and actor who has a net worth of$50 million dollars.
Criss Angel ----- What do you think ????????-----trying to be Angel of Light or Angel of Darkness -----
Walking on water -----and you can watch apparently how he did this on you tube if your interested -----
his logo notice the crown on the head ----
Cat around next ----
Then there is this ---walking on water ----Criss Angel Raise The Dead ----levitates -----walks through solid objects ----etc ---all tricks for entertainment ----making a fortune - posing as an angel ------ but we don't mind him being worth --$50 million dollars -----spending it on more Illusions and his own needs -----to make more money for the dark side in my opinion ------
Criss Angel net worth: Criss Angel is an American illusionist, magician and actor who has a net worth of$50 million dollars.
Criss Angel ----- What do you think ????????-----trying to be Angel of Light or Angel of Darkness -----
Walking on water -----and you can watch apparently how he did this on you tube if your interested -----
Mendalla
Happy headbanging ape!!
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Actually, I saw a pic of Criss Angel attending a charity event recently and he was cleaned up, had his hair cut, wore a suit. Wouldn't have known it was him were it not for the caption. The charity is one he started to fund research into childhood cancer due to his two year-old's illness. So maybe he is becoming an angel of sorts.
unsafe
Well-Known Member
Waterfall ---your quote ----Unsafe what does any of this have to do with angels spoken of within the Bible?
This man is posing himself as an angel -----is there not 2 types of angels in the Bible Waterfall -----angel of light ---angel of dark
There are scriptures on magic and sorcery in the Bible -----does God like and approve of those you do magic tricks today ---good question -----I personally don't think so but that is just my view ----grant it ---it is for entertainment today but I feel that we need to be weary as to what the motive is and be ware of where this entertainment comes from ----- as you can see from the pictures above Criss Angel is portraying himself like God ----is he into the Occult ???--I do not know but what I do see is him trying to do some similar tricks that Jesus who is God actually did in the Bible ------to me this is belittling the Miracles that Jesus who is God did -----his latest one is raising someone from the dead ------
7 Bible Verses about -----http://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Magical-Arts,-Practice-Of
Magical Arts, Practice Of
Most Relevant Verses
Eodus 7:11
Verse Concepts
Then Pharaoh also called for the wise men and the sorcerers, and they also, the magicians of Egypt, did the same with their secret arts.
This post is about angels ----is he not posing as one here ??-----not an angel of light in my view ----
This is from Got Questions ---posting the last paragraph ----read all here --https://www.gotquestions.org/magic-illusion-Bible.html
What does the Bible say about magic, magicians, illusionists?
In regard to the magicians and illusionists we see today, if they are nothing more than entertainers, there is probably nothing wrong with being entertained by them. If, however, they are involved with the occult, clearly this is something Christians must avoid. The difficulty is in knowing which are associated with the occult and which are not. In any case, wisdom and discernment are needed whenever dealing with any form of magic or illusion.
Also he makes Millions from his Angel portraying deceptive work -----posing as an angel and using deception----it shows just how deception can make on rich ----and instead of ----In God we trust to Bless us to be a Blessing to others ---it becomes in deception we trust for our own gain -----it is not an angel that Blesses us it is God ----God's angels do God's work -----Satan's angels do Satan's work ----he is the father of lies and deception according to scripture ----
------------
This man is posing himself as an angel -----is there not 2 types of angels in the Bible Waterfall -----angel of light ---angel of dark
There are scriptures on magic and sorcery in the Bible -----does God like and approve of those you do magic tricks today ---good question -----I personally don't think so but that is just my view ----grant it ---it is for entertainment today but I feel that we need to be weary as to what the motive is and be ware of where this entertainment comes from ----- as you can see from the pictures above Criss Angel is portraying himself like God ----is he into the Occult ???--I do not know but what I do see is him trying to do some similar tricks that Jesus who is God actually did in the Bible ------to me this is belittling the Miracles that Jesus who is God did -----his latest one is raising someone from the dead ------
7 Bible Verses about -----http://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Magical-Arts,-Practice-Of
Magical Arts, Practice Of
Most Relevant Verses
Eodus 7:11
Verse Concepts
Then Pharaoh also called for the wise men and the sorcerers, and they also, the magicians of Egypt, did the same with their secret arts.
This post is about angels ----is he not posing as one here ??-----not an angel of light in my view ----
This is from Got Questions ---posting the last paragraph ----read all here --https://www.gotquestions.org/magic-illusion-Bible.html
What does the Bible say about magic, magicians, illusionists?
In regard to the magicians and illusionists we see today, if they are nothing more than entertainers, there is probably nothing wrong with being entertained by them. If, however, they are involved with the occult, clearly this is something Christians must avoid. The difficulty is in knowing which are associated with the occult and which are not. In any case, wisdom and discernment are needed whenever dealing with any form of magic or illusion.
Also he makes Millions from his Angel portraying deceptive work -----posing as an angel and using deception----it shows just how deception can make on rich ----and instead of ----In God we trust to Bless us to be a Blessing to others ---it becomes in deception we trust for our own gain -----it is not an angel that Blesses us it is God ----God's angels do God's work -----Satan's angels do Satan's work ----he is the father of lies and deception according to scripture ----
Mendalla
Happy headbanging ape!!
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Seriously? You think Angel is some kind of occult deceiver? I mean, as an illusionist he technically is deceiving our senses, but no one including him, actually thinks he is an angel nor is his intent to make people think he is. It is an act done for entertainment and anyone who is "deceived" into thinking he is really some kind of angel or god has been self-deceived. He may go a bit overboard with the imagery at times, but ultimately he's in the tradition of Harry Houdini and David Copperfield, not Anton LaVey.
chansen
Had a point all along
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Criss Angel is a provocateur and illusionist.
And "the occult" is as impotent as your God is. You can't demonstrate any of your claims about God, and occultists can't do any better. You'll all jump up and down at me writing that, but you've all got nothing.
And "the occult" is as impotent as your God is. You can't demonstrate any of your claims about God, and occultists can't do any better. You'll all jump up and down at me writing that, but you've all got nothing.
Jaebius
Well-Known Member
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
@unsafe - you may or may not have heard of a group before called the "Fellowship of Christian Magicians." My dad used to be a member of it. This international group of individuals perform magic illusions, chiefly in churches, in order to share the Gospel with people. Clearly not all magic is evil.
Waterfall ---your quote ----Unsafe what does any of this have to do with angels spoken of within the Bible?
This man is posing himself as an angel -----is there not 2 types of angels in the Bible Waterfall -----angel of light ---angel of dark
There are scriptures on magic and sorcery in the Bible -----does God like and approve of those you do magic tricks today ---good question -----I personally don't think so but that is just my view ----grant it ---it is for entertainment today but I feel that we need to be weary as to what the motive is and be ware of where this entertainment comes from ----- as you can see from the pictures above Criss Angel is portraying himself like God ----is he into the Occult ???--I do not know but what I do see is him trying to do some similar tricks that Jesus who is God actually did in the Bible ------to me this is belittling the Miracles that Jesus who is God did -----his latest one is raising someone from the dead ------
7 Bible Verses about -----http://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Magical-Arts,-Practice-Of
Magical Arts, Practice Of
Most Relevant Verses
Eodus 7:11
Verse Concepts
Then Pharaoh also called for the wise men and the sorcerers, and they also, the magicians of Egypt, did the same with their secret arts.
This post is about angels ----is he not posing as one here ??-----not an angel of light in my view ----
This is from Got Questions ---posting the last paragraph ----read all here --https://www.gotquestions.org/magic-illusion-Bible.html
What does the Bible say about magic, magicians, illusionists?
In regard to the magicians and illusionists we see today, if they are nothing more than entertainers, there is probably nothing wrong with being entertained by them. If, however, they are involved with the occult, clearly this is something Christians must avoid. The difficulty is in knowing which are associated with the occult and which are not. In any case, wisdom and discernment are needed whenever dealing with any form of magic or illusion.
Also he makes Millions from his Angel portraying deceptive work -----posing as an angel and using deception----it shows just how deception can make on rich ----and instead of ----In God we trust to Bless us to be a Blessing to others ---it becomes in deception we trust for our own gain -----it is not an angel that Blesses us it is God ----God's angels do God's work -----Satan's angels do Satan's work ----he is the father of lies and deception according to scripture ----
------------
If he's posing as an angel he's not doing a very good job. Look up the descriptions of angels within the Bible.
He is an entertainer.
unsafe
Well-Known Member
Pr.Jae ----your quote ---- you may or may not have heard of a group before called the "Fellowship of Christian Magicians." My dad used to be a member of it. This international group of individuals perform magic illusions, chiefly in churches, in order to share the Gospel with people. Clearly not all magic is evil.
Do we really need deception to teach us Bible truth ???---Faith is needed not deception for Bible truth ---just my view though ----
I agree that not all supernatural powers are used in the negative sense as God shows us that many times in the Bible ----the parting of the red sea----the 10 commandments written on rock -----the burning bush ----water coming from a rock ----feeding 5 thousand with a 2 piece fish dinner ----etc ----was used by God in the positive sense -----
The magic used by people today is deceptive ----which is negative in my view --
All that God did Glorified Him not the person ----All that Criss Angel does glorifies himself not God ----
This is from ----http://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/magic/
Magic was considered an aspect of pagan wisdom; magicians were counted as wise men (Psalm 58:5;Dan 1:20;2:13) and officials of foreign governments (Gen 41:6;Exod 7:11;Dan 2:2). Different from pagan sources, the Old Testament writers did not see a connection between magic and the gods. Foreign magicians in Scripture did not invoke help of their gods for magical formulas, but often called upon self-operating forces that were independent of the gods (Isa 47:13; the monotheistic Israelites did not accept the existence of the foreign gods ). Moreover, the biblical writers seemed to attribute a reality to magical power that it did not ascribe to the gods. Magic was considered human rebellion that unlocked divine secrets, making humanity equal with God.
I understand that Criss Angel is all about entertaining people with deception ------ which is how this world works ------which glorifies and uplifts self ---what bothers me he is using deception to preform what Jesus actually did and he is selling himself in pictures as being similar to who Jesus is ---it may be OK with you but it is bordering on mocking God in my view ------to each his own ------the crown belongs to a King in my world --Criss Angel is not a King ----this is his part of his logo ----the skull with the crown ----
This is an article on ----http://www.fcm.org/Should-a-Christian-Do-Magic
Should a Christian Do Magic?
Is it right for a Christian to use sleight of hand and illusion–aren’t these instruments dishonest and deceptive? Doesn’t the Bible forbid magic, fortune-telling and ventriloquism?
A Problem of Vocabulary
First, let’s get our terms defined. When the Bible (especially certain translations) uses the term “magic” (e.g. Revelation 22:15, Isaiah 47:12, NIV, Acts 19:19, NASB) or “magician” (Genesis 41:8, KJV) or “witch” (Exodus 22:18 KJV) or “sorcery” (Leviticus 19:26, NIV, Deuteronomy 18:11, NIV) or “ventriloquism” (e.g. Isaiah 8:19, the King James Version says “wizards that peep”), it is clearly dealing with a person’s involvement in the supernatural, usually with the collaboration of evil spirits. The context of the Bible prohibitions makes it clear that God does not want people to dabble in games with the devil. Today’s manifestations of these forbidden activities are such things as ouija boards, tarot cards, the occult and horoscopes. The Christian has no business playing with these, since they open the door to demonic influence.
Let it be emphasized that no true Christian magician or ventriloquist is in any way involved in the use of supernatural powers.
There may be confusion due to the fact that certain words have two meanings. “Magic” has the meaning of witchcraft or sorcery, but the word also means sleight of hand and illusion, the surprising, fascinating and entertaining performance. Obviously the Bible is talking about the first of these meanings and not the second.
Etymologically, the word “ventriloquism” means “belly-talking.” As used in the Old Testament, the word refers to fortune telling by means of reading the entrails of slain animals, or demon possession, wherein an evil spirit spoke through a human mouthpiece. Modern ventriloquists create the illusion that their voices come from another source, using this to entertain. Spectators unable to explain this skill misnamed the illusion “belly-talking.” Again, the Biblical prohibition has reference to one meaning of this word, but does not prohibit the animation of puppets as is done in the modern entertainment medium. The first thing we must be sure of when dealing with Biblical prohibitions is that we understand what the Bible is in fact saying, so that we do not misapply the truth because of a confusion in vocabulary.
Confusion with the Supernatural
One could raise the objection that it is wrong for the Christian to do any performance that could so easily be misinterpreted as sinful by someone who doesn’t know. Doesn’t the Bible warn us to “avoid all appearance of evil”? (I Thessalonians 5:22, KJV) Couldn’t innocent parlor magic or ventriloquism be easily confused with forbidden activity?
In fact, a better translation of I Thessalonians 5:22 is “avoid every form of evil” (NASB) or “avoid every kind of evil” (NIV). In dealing with right and wrong, one must always be careful of appearances, but it is not theappearance that makes something right or wrong. The emphasis on appearance is the essence of hypocrisy! If the issue were that Christians are to refrain from doing anything that looks like sin or could be misinterpreted by someone who does not know, then we would never be able to do anything with confidence. According to this thinking, Jesus was correctly rebuked for eating with publicans, for forgiving prostitutes and for touching lepers. Certainly these actions confused many people, but the Son of God knew His mission and performed His ministry in spite of possible objections.
The Gospel magician could easily be confused with the secular entertainer, or worse, with the occultist, just as the Christian singer could be associated with the acid-dropping Satanist, or the radio preacher could be identified with the immoral talk-show host. Or we could insist that it is wrong for the Christian to read any magazine or paperback book, because immoral people publish sinful books and magazines. Do we believe that because of the sin of some broadcasters, there is no value in the ministry of broadcasting? Part of the issue is whether a godly performer should stop a ministry he knows to be right, just because someone else might misjudge his motives or his methods.
Some Christians assume that anything they cannot themselves understand and explain must be supernatural. Hence they see negative effects as being produced by demons, and every positive event must be a miracle of God. There is great room, however, for neutral items which can be used either for good or for evil.
Ministry by means of “Deception”?
Another objection is that it is not right for the Christian to use trickery in presenting the truth. No matter how you slice it, magic involves deceit (illusion). Of course some “Gospel magicians” try to get around this objection by never actually saying their hand is empty when it isn’t, but they say, “my hand looks empty.” This skirts the issue, since the intent is for the audience to believe that the hand was empty (or that the bunny materialized from thin air, or that the red scarf actually turned white, etc.) The deceit was there, regardless of whether the performer told a lie with his words or with his actions.
Here we must deal with the nature of truth. At any given time, a presentation of truth only represents a portion of reality. I carry a photograph of my wife that everyone claims is a very candid likeness, yet it deceives in certain ways. For one thing, my wife is not black and white and gray; for another, she is more than two inches tall and is not flat. But the image abstracted by this photograph captures her expression and personality very honestly. It is an honest–though partial–representation of the truth. The issue is whether the Gospel magician conveys the impression that he is doing supernatural things, or whether he honestly acknowledges that what he is doing is trickery.
Something to bear in mind is the nature of drama. We are not “deceived” by the actor who is playing a part, and in fact we say that he played his part well. In drama we suspend what we know to be true rationally and enter into imagination and “believe” the story. But when it’s over, we don’t actually believe that we saw the real person being portrayed. Howard Thurston, a famous magician of a century ago, said “A magician is actually an actor playing the part of a magician.”
After all is said and done, most people acknowledge that magical entertainers do not actually have supernatural powers. If the total presentation is an accurate representation of Biblical truth, the audience will be impressed with the message, and not dazzled at the thought that a person has been doing actual superhuman feats.
A Biblical Basis for Gospel Magic
It is fine to say that doing Gospel magic is not wrong, but is it right? Is there a Biblical justification for using magic to present Scriptural or spiritual truths?
The first part of the argument comes from Jesus’ own use of parables–visual aids. Matthew 13:34 indicates that in Jesus’ teaching, He always used object lessons. Sleight of hand and illusion provide a way of presenting some very powerful spiritual messages in a visual way. When a dirty handkerchief–representing sin–is transformed into an egg, it makes a very striking illustration of the change God makes in a person’s life when he trusts Christ. Magic tricks have power to gain and maintain attention.
The second part of a Biblical basis for Gospel magic is God’s own use of the spectacular as an attention-getting device. He could have dealt with people without using the miraculous, but with Moses He chose to use a bush that burned without being consumed; with Balaam He used a talking donkey; with Joshua He used a destructive trumpet blast to bring down the walls of Jericho, and with Belshazzar He wrote on the wall with a giant hand. Many of the prophets used spectacular attention-getting devices, such as shaving their head, wearing a disintegrating garment, making a model of Jerusalem. And what a sight Jonah must have been, bleached from the digestive juices of the great sea monster, as he paraded through Nineveh proclaiming the judgment of God.
But perhaps most spectacular of all are the descriptions of the events surrounding the death and resurrection of Jesus. It could have happened without a lot of fanfare, but Christ’s death was accompanied by darkness and earthquake. The resurrection was accompanied by a blast of light that left the guards stunned and dazed.
There are some very impressive effects of “magic” that illustrate principles from the Scripture. When sleight of hand and illusion are harnessed for the purpose of explaining Gospel principles, they can be very powerful from a psychological and educational point of view.
Performance Leads to Pride
A serious objection is that when people are amazed and admire the performer, this leads to pride on his part. This is certainly a possibility, and the Christian performer (no matter what art form) must guard against pride. This is true of the Christian singer, actor, magician, ventriloquist–and even preacher! Let us condemn pride in any form and in every presentation, but the possibility of pride should not deter from exercising a skill that can point people to God’s truth and lead them to Christ.
Conclusion
To wind up this brief treatment, let me make several practical suggestions about your own attitude towards “Gospel magic;”
© 1988 by Robert H. Hill, revised 2010. This article may be freely copied and distributed provided that it is done so in its entirety and without charge.
Do we really need deception to teach us Bible truth ???---Faith is needed not deception for Bible truth ---just my view though ----
I agree that not all supernatural powers are used in the negative sense as God shows us that many times in the Bible ----the parting of the red sea----the 10 commandments written on rock -----the burning bush ----water coming from a rock ----feeding 5 thousand with a 2 piece fish dinner ----etc ----was used by God in the positive sense -----
The magic used by people today is deceptive ----which is negative in my view --
All that God did Glorified Him not the person ----All that Criss Angel does glorifies himself not God ----
This is from ----http://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/magic/
Magic was considered an aspect of pagan wisdom; magicians were counted as wise men (Psalm 58:5;Dan 1:20;2:13) and officials of foreign governments (Gen 41:6;Exod 7:11;Dan 2:2). Different from pagan sources, the Old Testament writers did not see a connection between magic and the gods. Foreign magicians in Scripture did not invoke help of their gods for magical formulas, but often called upon self-operating forces that were independent of the gods (Isa 47:13; the monotheistic Israelites did not accept the existence of the foreign gods ). Moreover, the biblical writers seemed to attribute a reality to magical power that it did not ascribe to the gods. Magic was considered human rebellion that unlocked divine secrets, making humanity equal with God.
I understand that Criss Angel is all about entertaining people with deception ------ which is how this world works ------which glorifies and uplifts self ---what bothers me he is using deception to preform what Jesus actually did and he is selling himself in pictures as being similar to who Jesus is ---it may be OK with you but it is bordering on mocking God in my view ------to each his own ------the crown belongs to a King in my world --Criss Angel is not a King ----this is his part of his logo ----the skull with the crown ----
This is an article on ----http://www.fcm.org/Should-a-Christian-Do-Magic
Should a Christian Do Magic?
Is it right for a Christian to use sleight of hand and illusion–aren’t these instruments dishonest and deceptive? Doesn’t the Bible forbid magic, fortune-telling and ventriloquism?
A Problem of Vocabulary
First, let’s get our terms defined. When the Bible (especially certain translations) uses the term “magic” (e.g. Revelation 22:15, Isaiah 47:12, NIV, Acts 19:19, NASB) or “magician” (Genesis 41:8, KJV) or “witch” (Exodus 22:18 KJV) or “sorcery” (Leviticus 19:26, NIV, Deuteronomy 18:11, NIV) or “ventriloquism” (e.g. Isaiah 8:19, the King James Version says “wizards that peep”), it is clearly dealing with a person’s involvement in the supernatural, usually with the collaboration of evil spirits. The context of the Bible prohibitions makes it clear that God does not want people to dabble in games with the devil. Today’s manifestations of these forbidden activities are such things as ouija boards, tarot cards, the occult and horoscopes. The Christian has no business playing with these, since they open the door to demonic influence.
Let it be emphasized that no true Christian magician or ventriloquist is in any way involved in the use of supernatural powers.
There may be confusion due to the fact that certain words have two meanings. “Magic” has the meaning of witchcraft or sorcery, but the word also means sleight of hand and illusion, the surprising, fascinating and entertaining performance. Obviously the Bible is talking about the first of these meanings and not the second.
Etymologically, the word “ventriloquism” means “belly-talking.” As used in the Old Testament, the word refers to fortune telling by means of reading the entrails of slain animals, or demon possession, wherein an evil spirit spoke through a human mouthpiece. Modern ventriloquists create the illusion that their voices come from another source, using this to entertain. Spectators unable to explain this skill misnamed the illusion “belly-talking.” Again, the Biblical prohibition has reference to one meaning of this word, but does not prohibit the animation of puppets as is done in the modern entertainment medium. The first thing we must be sure of when dealing with Biblical prohibitions is that we understand what the Bible is in fact saying, so that we do not misapply the truth because of a confusion in vocabulary.
Confusion with the Supernatural
One could raise the objection that it is wrong for the Christian to do any performance that could so easily be misinterpreted as sinful by someone who doesn’t know. Doesn’t the Bible warn us to “avoid all appearance of evil”? (I Thessalonians 5:22, KJV) Couldn’t innocent parlor magic or ventriloquism be easily confused with forbidden activity?
In fact, a better translation of I Thessalonians 5:22 is “avoid every form of evil” (NASB) or “avoid every kind of evil” (NIV). In dealing with right and wrong, one must always be careful of appearances, but it is not theappearance that makes something right or wrong. The emphasis on appearance is the essence of hypocrisy! If the issue were that Christians are to refrain from doing anything that looks like sin or could be misinterpreted by someone who does not know, then we would never be able to do anything with confidence. According to this thinking, Jesus was correctly rebuked for eating with publicans, for forgiving prostitutes and for touching lepers. Certainly these actions confused many people, but the Son of God knew His mission and performed His ministry in spite of possible objections.
The Gospel magician could easily be confused with the secular entertainer, or worse, with the occultist, just as the Christian singer could be associated with the acid-dropping Satanist, or the radio preacher could be identified with the immoral talk-show host. Or we could insist that it is wrong for the Christian to read any magazine or paperback book, because immoral people publish sinful books and magazines. Do we believe that because of the sin of some broadcasters, there is no value in the ministry of broadcasting? Part of the issue is whether a godly performer should stop a ministry he knows to be right, just because someone else might misjudge his motives or his methods.
Some Christians assume that anything they cannot themselves understand and explain must be supernatural. Hence they see negative effects as being produced by demons, and every positive event must be a miracle of God. There is great room, however, for neutral items which can be used either for good or for evil.
Ministry by means of “Deception”?
Another objection is that it is not right for the Christian to use trickery in presenting the truth. No matter how you slice it, magic involves deceit (illusion). Of course some “Gospel magicians” try to get around this objection by never actually saying their hand is empty when it isn’t, but they say, “my hand looks empty.” This skirts the issue, since the intent is for the audience to believe that the hand was empty (or that the bunny materialized from thin air, or that the red scarf actually turned white, etc.) The deceit was there, regardless of whether the performer told a lie with his words or with his actions.
Here we must deal with the nature of truth. At any given time, a presentation of truth only represents a portion of reality. I carry a photograph of my wife that everyone claims is a very candid likeness, yet it deceives in certain ways. For one thing, my wife is not black and white and gray; for another, she is more than two inches tall and is not flat. But the image abstracted by this photograph captures her expression and personality very honestly. It is an honest–though partial–representation of the truth. The issue is whether the Gospel magician conveys the impression that he is doing supernatural things, or whether he honestly acknowledges that what he is doing is trickery.
Something to bear in mind is the nature of drama. We are not “deceived” by the actor who is playing a part, and in fact we say that he played his part well. In drama we suspend what we know to be true rationally and enter into imagination and “believe” the story. But when it’s over, we don’t actually believe that we saw the real person being portrayed. Howard Thurston, a famous magician of a century ago, said “A magician is actually an actor playing the part of a magician.”
After all is said and done, most people acknowledge that magical entertainers do not actually have supernatural powers. If the total presentation is an accurate representation of Biblical truth, the audience will be impressed with the message, and not dazzled at the thought that a person has been doing actual superhuman feats.
A Biblical Basis for Gospel Magic
It is fine to say that doing Gospel magic is not wrong, but is it right? Is there a Biblical justification for using magic to present Scriptural or spiritual truths?
The first part of the argument comes from Jesus’ own use of parables–visual aids. Matthew 13:34 indicates that in Jesus’ teaching, He always used object lessons. Sleight of hand and illusion provide a way of presenting some very powerful spiritual messages in a visual way. When a dirty handkerchief–representing sin–is transformed into an egg, it makes a very striking illustration of the change God makes in a person’s life when he trusts Christ. Magic tricks have power to gain and maintain attention.
The second part of a Biblical basis for Gospel magic is God’s own use of the spectacular as an attention-getting device. He could have dealt with people without using the miraculous, but with Moses He chose to use a bush that burned without being consumed; with Balaam He used a talking donkey; with Joshua He used a destructive trumpet blast to bring down the walls of Jericho, and with Belshazzar He wrote on the wall with a giant hand. Many of the prophets used spectacular attention-getting devices, such as shaving their head, wearing a disintegrating garment, making a model of Jerusalem. And what a sight Jonah must have been, bleached from the digestive juices of the great sea monster, as he paraded through Nineveh proclaiming the judgment of God.
But perhaps most spectacular of all are the descriptions of the events surrounding the death and resurrection of Jesus. It could have happened without a lot of fanfare, but Christ’s death was accompanied by darkness and earthquake. The resurrection was accompanied by a blast of light that left the guards stunned and dazed.
There are some very impressive effects of “magic” that illustrate principles from the Scripture. When sleight of hand and illusion are harnessed for the purpose of explaining Gospel principles, they can be very powerful from a psychological and educational point of view.
Performance Leads to Pride
A serious objection is that when people are amazed and admire the performer, this leads to pride on his part. This is certainly a possibility, and the Christian performer (no matter what art form) must guard against pride. This is true of the Christian singer, actor, magician, ventriloquist–and even preacher! Let us condemn pride in any form and in every presentation, but the possibility of pride should not deter from exercising a skill that can point people to God’s truth and lead them to Christ.
Conclusion
To wind up this brief treatment, let me make several practical suggestions about your own attitude towards “Gospel magic;”
- Enjoy “magic” presentations. Don’t worry about being fooled. You don’t need to understand how every trick is done in order for it to be all right.
- Pray for the Christian magician. He wants to present Gospel truths in an effective way, without violating what is proper. It is easy to give in to the sins of pride and presumption. He needs your understanding and support. Praise God that He has given this performer opportunities to present a message at places where a preacher would never be able to speak.
- Seek God’s mind. Be sympathetic and ask God to help you understand what attitude is right to have towards forms of ministry that you do not wholeheartedly understand or endorse. Realize that the same skill may not be best for everyone, but God can bless it and use it for His glory.
- If you continue to have reservations, work them out. Talk to your local Christian magician. He will be happy to discuss them with you!
- Thanks for being open to consider some new ideas. I hope they have helped you to gain a new perspective. Read Acts 10:9-20 and rejoice that God opens the hearts and minds of His children who are ready to receive His messages.
© 1988 by Robert H. Hill, revised 2010. This article may be freely copied and distributed provided that it is done so in its entirety and without charge.
Delightful Life
M&M, Cascadian Lovers
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
Well
It's just as bizarre as what I try to do every Sunday
Eat the creator of everything's flesh and drink Her blood...go figure.
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Delightful Life
M&M, Cascadian Lovers
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
Fun riff Sister fun riff :3Pr.Jae ----your quote ---- you may or may not have heard of a group before called the "Fellowship of Christian Magicians." My dad used to be a member of it. This international group of individuals perform magic illusions, chiefly in churches, in order to share the Gospel with people. Clearly not all magic is evil.
Do we really need deception to teach us Bible truth ???---Faith is needed not deception for Bible truth ---just my view though ----
I agree that not all supernatural powers are used in the negative sense as God shows us that many times in the Bible ----the parting of the red sea----the 10 commandments written on rock -----the burning bush ----water coming from a rock ----feeding 5 thousand with a 2 piece fish dinner ----etc ----was used by God in the positive sense -----
The magic used by people today is deceptive ----which is negative in my view --
All that God did Glorified Him not the person ----All that Criss Angel does glorifies himself not God ----
This is from ----http://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/magic/
Magic was considered an aspect of pagan wisdom; magicians were counted as wise men (Psalm 58:5;Dan 1:20;2:13) and officials of foreign governments (Gen 41:6;Exod 7:11;Dan 2:2). Different from pagan sources, the Old Testament writers did not see a connection between magic and the gods. Foreign magicians in Scripture did not invoke help of their gods for magical formulas, but often called upon self-operating forces that were independent of the gods (Isa 47:13; the monotheistic Israelites did not accept the existence of the foreign gods ). Moreover, the biblical writers seemed to attribute a reality to magical power that it did not ascribe to the gods. Magic was considered human rebellion that unlocked divine secrets, making humanity equal with God.
I understand that Criss Angel is all about entertaining people with deception ------ which is how this world works ------which glorifies and uplifts self ---what bothers me he is using deception to preform what Jesus actually did and he is selling himself in pictures as being similar to who Jesus is ---it may be OK with you but it is bordering on mocking God in my view ------to each his own ------the crown belongs to a King in my world --Criss Angel is not a King ----this is his part of his logo ----the skull with the crown ----
This is an article on ----http://www.fcm.org/Should-a-Christian-Do-Magic
Should a Christian Do Magic?
Is it right for a Christian to use sleight of hand and illusion–aren’t these instruments dishonest and deceptive? Doesn’t the Bible forbid magic, fortune-telling and ventriloquism?
A Problem of Vocabulary
First, let’s get our terms defined. When the Bible (especially certain translations) uses the term “magic” (e.g. Revelation 22:15, Isaiah 47:12, NIV, Acts 19:19, NASB) or “magician” (Genesis 41:8, KJV) or “witch” (Exodus 22:18 KJV) or “sorcery” (Leviticus 19:26, NIV, Deuteronomy 18:11, NIV) or “ventriloquism” (e.g. Isaiah 8:19, the King James Version says “wizards that peep”), it is clearly dealing with a person’s involvement in the supernatural, usually with the collaboration of evil spirits. The context of the Bible prohibitions makes it clear that God does not want people to dabble in games with the devil. Today’s manifestations of these forbidden activities are such things as ouija boards, tarot cards, the occult and horoscopes. The Christian has no business playing with these, since they open the door to demonic influence.
Let it be emphasized that no true Christian magician or ventriloquist is in any way involved in the use of supernatural powers.
There may be confusion due to the fact that certain words have two meanings. “Magic” has the meaning of witchcraft or sorcery, but the word also means sleight of hand and illusion, the surprising, fascinating and entertaining performance. Obviously the Bible is talking about the first of these meanings and not the second.
Etymologically, the word “ventriloquism” means “belly-talking.” As used in the Old Testament, the word refers to fortune telling by means of reading the entrails of slain animals, or demon possession, wherein an evil spirit spoke through a human mouthpiece. Modern ventriloquists create the illusion that their voices come from another source, using this to entertain. Spectators unable to explain this skill misnamed the illusion “belly-talking.” Again, the Biblical prohibition has reference to one meaning of this word, but does not prohibit the animation of puppets as is done in the modern entertainment medium. The first thing we must be sure of when dealing with Biblical prohibitions is that we understand what the Bible is in fact saying, so that we do not misapply the truth because of a confusion in vocabulary.
Confusion with the Supernatural
One could raise the objection that it is wrong for the Christian to do any performance that could so easily be misinterpreted as sinful by someone who doesn’t know. Doesn’t the Bible warn us to “avoid all appearance of evil”? (I Thessalonians 5:22, KJV) Couldn’t innocent parlor magic or ventriloquism be easily confused with forbidden activity?
In fact, a better translation of I Thessalonians 5:22 is “avoid every form of evil” (NASB) or “avoid every kind of evil” (NIV). In dealing with right and wrong, one must always be careful of appearances, but it is not theappearance that makes something right or wrong. The emphasis on appearance is the essence of hypocrisy! If the issue were that Christians are to refrain from doing anything that looks like sin or could be misinterpreted by someone who does not know, then we would never be able to do anything with confidence. According to this thinking, Jesus was correctly rebuked for eating with publicans, for forgiving prostitutes and for touching lepers. Certainly these actions confused many people, but the Son of God knew His mission and performed His ministry in spite of possible objections.
The Gospel magician could easily be confused with the secular entertainer, or worse, with the occultist, just as the Christian singer could be associated with the acid-dropping Satanist, or the radio preacher could be identified with the immoral talk-show host. Or we could insist that it is wrong for the Christian to read any magazine or paperback book, because immoral people publish sinful books and magazines. Do we believe that because of the sin of some broadcasters, there is no value in the ministry of broadcasting? Part of the issue is whether a godly performer should stop a ministry he knows to be right, just because someone else might misjudge his motives or his methods.
Some Christians assume that anything they cannot themselves understand and explain must be supernatural. Hence they see negative effects as being produced by demons, and every positive event must be a miracle of God. There is great room, however, for neutral items which can be used either for good or for evil.
Ministry by means of “Deception”?
Another objection is that it is not right for the Christian to use trickery in presenting the truth. No matter how you slice it, magic involves deceit (illusion). Of course some “Gospel magicians” try to get around this objection by never actually saying their hand is empty when it isn’t, but they say, “my hand looks empty.” This skirts the issue, since the intent is for the audience to believe that the hand was empty (or that the bunny materialized from thin air, or that the red scarf actually turned white, etc.) The deceit was there, regardless of whether the performer told a lie with his words or with his actions.
Here we must deal with the nature of truth. At any given time, a presentation of truth only represents a portion of reality. I carry a photograph of my wife that everyone claims is a very candid likeness, yet it deceives in certain ways. For one thing, my wife is not black and white and gray; for another, she is more than two inches tall and is not flat. But the image abstracted by this photograph captures her expression and personality very honestly. It is an honest–though partial–representation of the truth. The issue is whether the Gospel magician conveys the impression that he is doing supernatural things, or whether he honestly acknowledges that what he is doing is trickery.
Something to bear in mind is the nature of drama. We are not “deceived” by the actor who is playing a part, and in fact we say that he played his part well. In drama we suspend what we know to be true rationally and enter into imagination and “believe” the story. But when it’s over, we don’t actually believe that we saw the real person being portrayed. Howard Thurston, a famous magician of a century ago, said “A magician is actually an actor playing the part of a magician.”
After all is said and done, most people acknowledge that magical entertainers do not actually have supernatural powers. If the total presentation is an accurate representation of Biblical truth, the audience will be impressed with the message, and not dazzled at the thought that a person has been doing actual superhuman feats.
A Biblical Basis for Gospel Magic
It is fine to say that doing Gospel magic is not wrong, but is it right? Is there a Biblical justification for using magic to present Scriptural or spiritual truths?
The first part of the argument comes from Jesus’ own use of parables–visual aids. Matthew 13:34 indicates that in Jesus’ teaching, He always used object lessons. Sleight of hand and illusion provide a way of presenting some very powerful spiritual messages in a visual way. When a dirty handkerchief–representing sin–is transformed into an egg, it makes a very striking illustration of the change God makes in a person’s life when he trusts Christ. Magic tricks have power to gain and maintain attention.
The second part of a Biblical basis for Gospel magic is God’s own use of the spectacular as an attention-getting device. He could have dealt with people without using the miraculous, but with Moses He chose to use a bush that burned without being consumed; with Balaam He used a talking donkey; with Joshua He used a destructive trumpet blast to bring down the walls of Jericho, and with Belshazzar He wrote on the wall with a giant hand. Many of the prophets used spectacular attention-getting devices, such as shaving their head, wearing a disintegrating garment, making a model of Jerusalem. And what a sight Jonah must have been, bleached from the digestive juices of the great sea monster, as he paraded through Nineveh proclaiming the judgment of God.
But perhaps most spectacular of all are the descriptions of the events surrounding the death and resurrection of Jesus. It could have happened without a lot of fanfare, but Christ’s death was accompanied by darkness and earthquake. The resurrection was accompanied by a blast of light that left the guards stunned and dazed.
There are some very impressive effects of “magic” that illustrate principles from the Scripture. When sleight of hand and illusion are harnessed for the purpose of explaining Gospel principles, they can be very powerful from a psychological and educational point of view.
Performance Leads to Pride
A serious objection is that when people are amazed and admire the performer, this leads to pride on his part. This is certainly a possibility, and the Christian performer (no matter what art form) must guard against pride. This is true of the Christian singer, actor, magician, ventriloquist–and even preacher! Let us condemn pride in any form and in every presentation, but the possibility of pride should not deter from exercising a skill that can point people to God’s truth and lead them to Christ.
Conclusion
To wind up this brief treatment, let me make several practical suggestions about your own attitude towards “Gospel magic;”
“Whatever you do, in word or in deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks [and honor and glory] through Him to God the Father.” Colossians 3:17
- Enjoy “magic” presentations. Don’t worry about being fooled. You don’t need to understand how every trick is done in order for it to be all right.
- Pray for the Christian magician. He wants to present Gospel truths in an effective way, without violating what is proper. It is easy to give in to the sins of pride and presumption. He needs your understanding and support. Praise God that He has given this performer opportunities to present a message at places where a preacher would never be able to speak.
- Seek God’s mind. Be sympathetic and ask God to help you understand what attitude is right to have towards forms of ministry that you do not wholeheartedly understand or endorse. Realize that the same skill may not be best for everyone, but God can bless it and use it for His glory.
- If you continue to have reservations, work them out. Talk to your local Christian magician. He will be happy to discuss them with you!
- Thanks for being open to consider some new ideas. I hope they have helped you to gain a new perspective. Read Acts 10:9-20 and rejoice that God opens the hearts and minds of His children who are ready to receive His messages.
© 1988 by Robert H. Hill, revised 2010. This article may be freely copied and distributed provided that it is done so in its entirety and without charge.
chansen
Had a point all along
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Do you really need to lob softballs my way? This is too easy.
Mendalla
Happy headbanging ape!!
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- He/Him/His
Mendalla
Happy headbanging ape!!
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
blackbelt1961
Well-Known Member
yes ago, my uncle , who was a drinker, pot smoker, womanizer, poker player in italian social clubs, tough guy , had 2 heart attacks, in his end days he repented, the day he passed, 2 angles ministered to him before her was gone.
thats a short version of an amazing story of that that day that all us nephews experienced.
I believe in Angels, what the bible calls ministering spirits
thats a short version of an amazing story of that that day that all us nephews experienced.
I believe in Angels, what the bible calls ministering spirits
One white and blank like a whitewashed spirit (in love; catharsis) and the other like the darkness of soul ... a device absorbing light ... but quite mysterious ... opposing the Vanilla Sky Syndrome ... this applies to persons with blown souls ... they don't know th difference between right and wrong without laws, Roué's and loss of blind emotions ...
Some speculate they can get by with blind emotions without ramifications ...