Where is your faith at?

[chansen]

I call it Stinking Thinking

You should give that one to Pierre Poilievre. He loves slogans that rhyme.

 

[paradox3]

You should give that one to Pierre Poilievre. He loves slogans that rhyme.

"Stinking thinking" is an AA cliche

 

[BetteTheRed]

Here's the problem I have with pantheism and panentheism. If God is everything or "in" everything, isn't this the same thing as God being nothing or "in" nothing?

Possibly. If there's nowhere Godde is not, there is a possibility that Godde is nowhere, sort of the Schrodinger's Cat of divinity.

It's the best I can do. You can't force yourself to believe what is unbelievable, but I was unfortunately born a bit goddestruck and I like hanging out in a faith community, because the humans it comprises tend to kindness, patience and tolerance, and I'm a bit of an odd duck who needs all that help.

This is where my faith is at, and I can't imagine where it might evolve to. My "faith" is to do the next right thing, which, my Tuesday night class being over, happens to be dishes.

 

[unsafe]

Why would God stop grace after death?

God didn't stop His Grace after His Death ------Believers and Unbelievers have always had Common Grace --it is by God's Grace that we open our eyes after sleeping ----we deserve nothing from God --we humans rebelled against Him --


Common Grace ----Matthew 5:45 -----

This Grace is given to everyone ----

45 He makes His sun rise on those who are evil and on those who are good, and makes the rain fall on the righteous [those who are morally upright] and the unrighteous [the unrepentant, those who oppose Him].


Saving Grace ----Ephesians 2 ----

This Grace has to be accepted by the person through Christ's Faith to be come Born Again

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God -----


Sanctifying Grace ----Titus 2 --verse 12 ---

This Grace helps you to do God's will to Mature Spiritually ----after your Born Again

​

11 For the [remarkable, undeserved] grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men.

12 It teaches us to reject ungodliness and worldly (immoral) desires, and to live sensible, upright, and godly lives [lives with a purpose that reflect spiritual maturity] in this present age,

 

[BetteTheRed]

Possibly. If there's nowhere Godde is not, there is a possibility that Godde is nowhere, sort of the Schrodinger's Cat of divinity.

And my trust that Godde is everywhere is supported by two dream visions which are of no practical use of any sort to anyone but me.

We are all agnostic in that no-one knows what's really up until we die, if then.

 

[Waterfall]

God didn't stop His Grace after His Death ------Believers and Unbelievers have always had Common Grace --it is by God's Grace that we open our eyes after sleeping ----we deserve nothing from God --we humans rebelled against Him --


Common Grace ----Matthew 5:45 -----

This Grace is given to everyone ----

45 He makes His sun rise on those who are evil and on those who are good, and makes the rain fall on the righteous [those who are morally upright] and the unrighteous [the unrepentant, those who oppose Him].


Saving Grace ----Ephesians 2 ----

This Grace has to be accepted by the person through Christ's Faith to be come Born Again

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God -----


Sanctifying Grace ----Titus 2 --verse 12 ---

This Grace helps you to do God's will to Mature Spiritually ----after your Born Again

​

11 For the [remarkable, undeserved] grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men.

12 It teaches us to reject ungodliness and worldly (immoral) desires, and to live sensible, upright, and godly lives [lives with a purpose that reflect spiritual maturity] in this present age,

I like John's words: "From His fullness we have all received, grace upon grace."
Suggests to me that God is infinite with his grace.

 

[BetteTheRed]

And from my most beloved Julian of Norwich,

"And all shall be well. And alll manner of things shall be well."

 

[Luce NDs]

And God is grace and vengeful all at once ... creating a storm in the brain void ... and there are plenty of those spaces scattered about.

In such mental storms how to justify keeping the way clear so that there will be no other Gods creeping in ... as suggestive in the #1 Command ... a crack opens in the cloud ... isn't that capital (as the Brits would say)?

Imagine brae in void ... cleared out as a private spot ... somewhat silent and dark! Don't go there says the rule for you might learn something ... disaster! More intellect to be responsible for ... and then we lose it regardless ... without any regard whatsoever if in a state of blind faith ... can't observe? Words could be spewed ...

 

[unsafe]

I like John's words: "From His fullness we have all received, grace upon grace."
Suggests to me that God is infinite with his grace.

Well you can certainly like what John says ---but the only Grace that is available to unbelievers is Common Grace ------

Jesus came Full of Grace and Truth ----so now all Grace comes from Jesus ---so if you reject Jesus then you have Rejected His Grace upon Grace that He departs to His Children who have Received Him -----

So remember we have Satan still around and he deceives many ----he can parade as an angel of Light ----and Make us Like what certain Scripture is saying so we believe wrongly and end up with him in the end -----

Caution ----Discernment and Understanding are needed when Dealing with Scripture -----know who is whispering in your ear -------

God warns us greatly ----Testing --Testing ---123---who's Spirit is Speaking to US

 

[Luce NDs]

"-----know who is whispering in your ear -"

A duality as combined in a psyche of DIN ... that's either confusion or some standardized item ...

Sometimes wee red and black men ... other times those of the white and yellow teams ... snow melting competition?

Whatever 2-pared horsemen ... carriers on minimum's!

 

[unsafe]

I LIKE ----What AI has to say Here

The Relationship Between True Faith and Discernment

Faith is foundational: True faith involves trust in God and an acceptance of His truth as revealed in scripture.

Faith produces maturity: As believers grow in their faith through spiritual practices, such as prayer, study of the Bible, and quiet reflection, they develop a deeper, more refined perception.

Discernment in action: This developed wisdom allows an individual to navigate life's complexities and temptations, evaluate messages, and make decisions that align with God's will, rather than being "tossed back and forth by the waves and blown here and there by every wind of teaching".


Key Aspects of Discernment

Guided by the Holy Spirit: Christian discernment is a gift of the Holy Spirit, not just human logic or emotion. It is a "knowing" that can sometimes feel like a gut instinct but originates from God.

Rooted in Scripture: The Word of God is the ultimate standard for truth. All spiritual claims, teachings, and experiences must be tested against the Bible.

Results in Good Fruit: Genuine discernment leads to actions and outcomes that are pure, peaceable, gentle, full of mercy, and bring about righteousness (often referred to as "fruit" in a biblical context), leading to a deeper recognition of God's goodness.


Requires Practice: Discernment is not a given; it is a skill that must be constantly nourished and trained through use and experience.

In essence, true faith does not remain static; it propels a believer into a life where discernment becomes an inherent and active part of their existence, enabling them to live wisely and authentically for God.

 

[chansen]

In essence, true faith does not remain static; it propels a believer into a life where discernment becomes an inherent and active part of their existence, enabling them to live wisely and authentically for God.

Why, then, are so many "true" believers such incredible a**holes? Why judge people for who they love? Why condemn people for how they see themselves? Why are "true" believers some of the worst members of society?

These beliefs result in spoiled fruit, barely worthy of the green bin. These believers are rancid, rotting and they spoil everything they touch.

It's not just that I can't believe any of it because it's not credible - it's the damage it does in its name. That's what makes it worth opposing. And yet you come here saying how your faith informs your discernment? Your discernment? Do you think the other Christians here really want to say their faith is responsible for your discernment?

That's an association, I think, they would try to walk back.

 

[Mendalla]

Here's the problem I have with pantheism and panentheism. If God is everything or "in" everything, isn't this the same thing as God being nothing or "in" nothing?

The problem with that position is that those are not specific philosophies, but broad terms describing a class of ideas about God.

Process, for instance, was actually developed before it became associated with panentheism (IIRC, it was Hartshorne in Man's Vision of God who identified process as panentheist, not Whitehead himself). The vision of God process put forward fit best in that class. And God certainly is not "nothing" in process. God is the primary moving force, guiding the development of reality through lures.

My version of pantheism is actually atheistic if you are looking for God as a personal deity, for instance. So I guess that's God being "nothing" in a way but the universe is certainly not nothing, and it is ultimately the object of reverence in any pantheistic philosophy. And there are pantheistic schools that ascribe a personal nature to the universe.

So your argument against them works against some pantheistic and panentheistic ideas, but not against others. Arguing for or against pantheism and panentheism on their own is really too broad.

Doesn't it just come down to a decision we make about how we want to see reality?

From my agnostic point of view, all religion and philosophy comes down to a decision about how we want to see reality. There are many ways to understand our relationship to the universe. Some fall under "pantheism", some fall under "panentheism", some fall under traditional monotheism, and so on. There's no right or wrong answers here, just how each of us sees our place in the universe. We can advocate for a position, but we cannot proceed under the assumption that we are any more right than anyone else.

 

[Mendalla]

Why, then, are so many "true" believers such incredible a**holes? Why judge people for who they love? Why condemn people for how they see themselves? Why are "true" believers some of the worst members of society?

It's the "true" part, isn't it? Once you are deeply convinced of your own rightness and that your way of life is the best, everyone else has to be wrong and in need of correction.

 

[unsafe]

Why, then, are so many "true" believers such incredible a**holes?

Well unbelievers have not the capacity to understand the True Believer for one thing ---the True Believer to an unbeliever is foolish -----so the unbelievers call the True believers a**holes ----

and so the Unbeliever is really Judging the True Believer -----in my way of thinking ----

Why are "true" believers some of the worst members of society ?

Well Unbelievers think that True Believers are the worst members of Society because ---Unbelievers have not Spiritual insight to even begin to think otherwise ------they think like the World and Act like the Word acts -----so again they have not the Spiritual understanding needed to see different

So they attack and Judge the True Believer --------like your doing here ------

These beliefs result in spoiled fruit, barely worthy of the green bin. These believers are rancid, rotting and they spoil everything they touch.

Well you can think that of course -----but your just showing here that your thinking is of course where it should be for being under the god who rules this world -----

WHO IS OF COURSE -----

It's not just that I can't believe any of it because it's not credible -

OH There is the Truth of it ------You definitely Can't Believe because you have not the capacity or Spiritual knowledge to Believe ------so to you it is not Credible ---it is foolish which is right thinking for the World you live in ------

it's the damage it does in its name. That's what makes it worth opposing.

Well what makes it worth Opposing Is Satan who wants you to Oppose it ----that is his job ---to keep all unbelievers shackled to his way of thinking ----and Satan does an excellent job at spitting out his deception upon people ------and that is the real damage that is taking place -----

Great piece of Wisdom here

And yet you come here saying how your faith informs your discernment? Your discernment?

Well ---first the Faith that comes from God ----IS NOT OUR FAITH -----IT IS Jesus' Faith that is inbirthed in us via the Word when we accept God the Father's Drawing to Have our Hardened Hearts changed ----to accept the Word -----

Discernment comes from Christ Faith via the Holy Spirit -------so Discernment is never manufactured by us -----it is a gift given to the True Believer ----

Do you think the other Christians here really want to say their faith is responsible for your discernment?

That's an association, I think, they would try to walk back.

Well --First--the word Christian is misused and abused and means nothing today -------Calling ones self Christian does not mean they are Born of the Spirit ----many use the Term I think cause it Sounds Good ---

There are True Christians and there are False Christians ------




Your Statement here
really want to say their faith is responsible for your discernment?
Again if they think it is their Faith ---they are deceived ----all Faith comes from God -----and there are 3 Faiths -----

So which Faith are they claiming ----do You know -??--that would be the Question ??????????

James 2
intellectual Faith -----which is Dead Faith ---relies on 5 senses

demonic Faith --the demons believe in Jesus but they can't be Saved

Dynamic Faith which is Spiritual ---and is Productive when you accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour -----this is the only Faith that would give discernment via the indwelling of the Holy Spirit

 

[Luce NDs]

If God has trouble with being humble, gentile and just vs his tendency towards unmitigated vengeance ... does God appear quite indecisive compared to those that unfailingly believe in such instability?

That seems more of a bedeviled thinking than constancy ... Constance Sea? And therefore she is referred to as Mariah ... a disturbed surface ... rock surfaces have difficulty adjusting to the pounding. Picture activities on the Devil's Causeway ... a transient place involving some tran*science ... a shifting leer! This is based on science being an observational activity so as the firm up the statistics that counter childish wills!

Those who do not read literature deeply do not grasp the stacked meanings ... that fluid body was built strong ... so as to reach around the corner Mackie and look into Magee's shadow, that's Ur ...

 

[unsafe]

It's the "true" part, isn't it? Once you are deeply convinced of your own rightness and that your way of life is the best, everyone else has to be wrong and in need of correction.

and ---Well --I think True Believers could turn that statement to come right back on unbelievers

When the Unrighteous are deeply convinced that their way is the better way of life and everyone who chooses to live differently that they are the ones who are wrong and in need of being corrected ---

The World's Way verses God's way -----

We Choose ------

 

[BetteTheRed]

I assume, unsafe, that you consider yourself a true believer.

 

[unsafe]

I assume, unsafe, that you consider yourself a true believer.

God offers ALL PEOPLE ------ the chance to become a True believer -------

Becoming a True believer is a Free Personal Choice -------

Some make the Choice to become A True Believer ---and ---Some Reject that Choice -----

We choose ---Life or death -----which is in the power of the Tongue --------

I know where I stand -------Choosing LIFE ------- Where do you do stand ????????

 

[Luce NDs]

I assume, unsafe, that you consider yourself a true believer.

A true rebound off the darker mirror of myth ... generally considered a mystery but some are determined about it to the point of hubris ... but they wouldn't read something they cannot accept to boost the item ... thus it appears latently as a sharper point!

Imagine dark mires ... an earth that is fecund and from what items sprout from nowhere or or know where? Only if one poses questions ... the phantasy of Inquisition has been painful to normal folk!

During the Inquisition normal folk learned how brutal, powerful questions really are!