What is Truth

[Waterfall]

That's not you wondering. That's you listing a series of excuses.

And your response is you claiming to know my mind better than I do.

 

[Waterfall]

For the same reason your teachers didn't give you the answer sheet before all your exams. We're not here to all live perfect, happy and healthy lives with no pain or suffering, at least not yet anyways. We're here to first learn that there is such a thing as duality in our lives and then to learn to meld that duality into one. Eventually, when we learn to live "with" nature and not against it, we will live in a paradisical world.

If we "live with nature" this doesn't free us from natures "wrath", we would still be susceptible to diseases and the violent side of nature.

 

[chansen]

And your response is you claiming to know my mind better than I do.

No, they're just excuses for your perceived God's lack of behaviour. You ask a bunch of deep questions, then "ask" if we would appreciate life if it was perfect? You're not wondering there. You're defending your faith. It doesn't require a mind reader - it's bloody obvious.

Here's something to wonder about: If you were God, and you had the power to prevent the suffering of an innocent child, would you?

Here's something else: If there was no God, how would things look different? Would people still fall ill and die from diseases? Would random accidents still occur? Remove the assumption of God, and what would change?

 

[Waterfall]

No, they're just excuses for your perceived God's lack of behaviour. You ask a bunch of deep questions, then "ask" if we would appreciate life if it was perfect? You're not wondering there. You're defending your faith. It doesn't require a mind reader - it's bloody obvious.

Here's something to wonder about: If you were God, and you had the power to prevent the suffering of an innocent child, would you?

Here's something else: If there was no God, how would things look different? Would people still fall ill and die from diseases? Would random accidents still occur? Remove the assumption of God, and what would change?

If I remove the assumption of God, nothing changes. If I include God I have a way to get "through it" and a hope that eventually gives me the strength to move forward in a positive fashion.

If I were God, yes I would heal every child. I might also take out every person that pisses me off.

 

[Hermann]

What do we need jails for then? Everybody is right. Seems to me that truths require some rules.

Logical and mathematical truths require the rules of logic. But even if the rules of logic are strictly observed, and the logic of one's argument is impeccable and irrefutable, a different viewpoint leads to a different logical conclusion.

If you are talking legal rights, the rules that apply to those are laws. For moral rights, it is the moral code of the group or culture to which we belong.

Ultimate Truth, I think, is in the realm of non-duality or synthesis. It is the unitive state of the universe. Synthesis is antithetical to analysis. Therefore, ultimate Truth can only be felt or intuited. Because it is the ultimate state of being, we can experience it in the pure, undifferentiated experience of reality, as in meditation. In the pure experience, we commonly experience that everything is connected with everything else, and the unitive love that binds everything together into one inseparable whole. If we act directly from that feeling, then we act directly from the wellspring of absolute Truth.

 

[chansen]

If I remove the assumption of God, nothing changes.

And that's one of my main points.

If I include God I have a way to get "through it" and a hope that eventually gives me the strength to move forward in a positive fashion.

If I were God, yes I would heal every child. I might also take out every person that pisses me off.

You started out that last paragraph more moral than God. Then you went and sunk (literally) to His level.

 

[Waterfall]

No I started out the paragraph to appeal to your way of thinking.

The last paragraph illustrates that power also has the potential to corrupt.

Of course you and I would both disagree as to what Gods overall plan is. You say that God doesnt exist because he doesnt prevent bad things from happening and I would say that God may not intervene in order to give us more time to seek redemption

 

[blackbelt1961]

Well, that certainly clears up the only misunderstanding that I didn't have.

Do you and AC33 really think you're helping the cause of Christianity here?

do you really think your helping the cause of Atheism?

 

[Layton November]

do you really think your helping the cause of Atheism?

There is but one truth.
I don't know how to phrase it in imperfect words.
Yet.

You can make true statements. They are not THE truth.
You can put forward true propositions and theories. They are not THE truth.
You can live a life true to yourself. It is not THE truth.
You can look for it in science. It is not THE truth.
You can look for it in religion. It is not THE truth.
You can argue that your point of view is the truth. The statement is `true', but it takes you further from THE truth.
We are ALL a part of THE truth. THE truth is a part of ALL of us.
It is both lonely and all encompassing.

These are my imperfect words on truth.

 

[chansen]

do you really think your helping the cause of Atheism?

I make my points, I get people laughing, and I write reasonably well. I'm not terrific, but for someone coming here who is at least sympathetic to my lack of beliefs, I don't think I'm all that threatening or embarrassing. You two are looking ridiculous, and if you were arguing for my side, I'd be trying to shut you up.

 

[blackbelt1961]

I make my points, I get people laughing, and I write reasonably well. I'm not terrific, but for someone coming here who is at least sympathetic to my lack of beliefs,

I know, you keep reminding us of your belief system that you lack

good one

I don't think I'm all that threatening or embarrassing.

you forgot rude and immature

You two are looking ridiculous, and if you were arguing for my side,

like that would ever happen

I'd be trying to shut you up.

with what your baseless theories ???? or scientific methods

 

[chansen]

I'd be mortified to be associated with you. Some young, angry atheist came to the old site years ago, making atheism look bad, and I took him to task for it.

 

[blackbelt1961]

I'd be mortified to be associated with you.

thanks for proving me right on my calling you rude and immature

based on your track record i knew you would

 

[Layton November]

I'd be mortified to be associated with you. Some young, angry atheist came to the old site years ago, making atheism look bad, and I took him to task for it.

thanks for proving me right on my calling you rude and immature
based on your track record i knew you would

The rationality inherent in communicative practice extends over a broad spectrum. It refers to various forms of argumentation as possibilities of continuing communicative action with reflective means. Please reflect. The topic of this thread used to be "What is Truth?". How sad.

 

[Hermann]

There is but one truth.
I don't know how to phrase it in imperfect words.
Yet.

You can make true statements. They are not THE truth.
You can put forward true propositions and theories. They are not THE truth.
You can live a life true to yourself. It is not THE truth.
You can look for it in science. It is not THE truth.
You can look for it in religion. It is not THE truth.
You can argue that your point of view is the truth. The statement is `true', but it takes you further from THE truth.
We are ALL a part of THE truth. THE truth is a part of ALL of us.
It is both lonely and all encompassing.

These are my imperfect words on truth.

Hi Layton:

I agree. THE truth is unspeakable, but I think it is very experienceable, because this is how things really are. I feel and think that reality is in a unitive state of nonduality or synthesis, which can't be expressed in analytical terms and concepts simply because synthesis is antithetical to analysis.

Fortunately, THE truth can be intuited or experienced, and is being experienced, in the pure, unconceptualized experience of reality, as in meditation. The interpretation or conceptualization of such experience, however, depends on our framework of interpretation, and is a subjective or artistic rendition or re-creation of THE truth.


The TAO that can be told is not the TAO.

-Lao Tsu

 

[Neo]

If we "live with nature" this doesn't free us from natures "wrath", we would still be susceptible to diseases and the violent side of nature.

I think, Waterfall, that we'd be very surprised at how a peaceful a planet can become when it's people are peaceful. "Mind over matter" may turn out to be more than just an aphorism in the future.

 

[Delightful Life]

The rationality inherent in communicative practice extends over a broad spectrum. It refers to various forms of argumentation as possibilities of continuing communicative action with reflective means. Please reflect. The topic of this thread used to be "What is Truth?". How sad.

Don't mind them -- those two are old lovers from the original site

Ahh, love


You shoulda seen them in school together...chansen would tug on blackbelt's lovely locks, and he'd yuck "chansen cooties!" its since progressed


what we really need here is an Álfaskólinn...but alas, Canadians are too literal