What Do You See?

[Neo]

Can we put this to rest now ..

 

[Jaebius]

No I don't I'm just one voice among many

Each of whom moderates us all.

 

[GeoFee]

"But what if someone uses the money for, say, a glass of wine? (A perfectly Milanese question.) (Francis') answer: If “a glass of wine is the only happiness he has in life, that’s O.K. Instead, ask yourself, what do you do on the sly? What ‘happiness’ do you seek in secret?” Another way to look at it, he said, is to recognize how you are the “luckier” one, with a home, a spouse and children, and then ask why your responsibility to help should be pushed onto someone else.

Then he posed a greater challenge. He said the way of giving is as important as the gift. You should not simply drop a bill into a cup and walk away. You must stop, look the person in the eyes, and touch his or her hands.

The reason is to preserve dignity, to see another person not as a pathology or a social condition, but as a human, with a life whose value is equal to your own."

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/03/...ng-give-without-worry.html?smid=fb-share&_r=0

I am delighted by a pope who shines his own shoes and wanders through city streets connecting with those met along his way.

 

[Neo]

"But what if someone uses the money for, say, a glass of wine? (A perfectly Milanese question.) (Francis') answer: If “a glass of wine is the only happiness he has in life, that’s O.K. Instead, ask yourself, what do you do on the sly? What ‘happiness’ do you seek in secret?” Another way to look at it, he said, is to recognize how you are the “luckier” one, with a home, a spouse and children, and then ask why your responsibility to help should be pushed onto someone else.

Then he posed a greater challenge. He said the way of giving is as important as the gift. You should not simply drop a bill into a cup and walk away. You must stop, look the person in the eyes, and touch his or her hands.

The reason is to preserve dignity, to see another person not as a pathology or a social condition, but as a human, with a life whose value is equal to your own."

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/03/...ng-give-without-worry.html?smid=fb-share&_r=0

I don't usually touch people I give money to on the street, but I almost certainly look at them in the eyes and with a small smile say something like "here you go bud". The chances of that person using that money on drugs or alcohol may be good, I don't know. But even if it was for drugs, that's his hell, not mine. We should always have compassion for him as a person, he's a fellow Human Being, it's part of the Golden Rule. Or as Pope Francis says, look at it as a kind of payment to the Universe for being "luckier" in life.

 

[Ritafee]

I am delighted by a pope who shines his own shoes and wanders through city streets connecting with those met along his way.

I would be even more delighted if the only attention that was drawn to the Pope was that he had put on his polished boots and disappeared into the streets 'walking the walk' dependent only on God ... as a beggar of mercy: ‘an anonymous beggar telling another anonymous beggar where he could find bread’- so to speak - without the cloak of the pope.

 

[blackbelt1961]

Each of whom moderates us all.

Of course once we all discuss and agree , but Betty was insinuating to me, abuse of my moderation, which of course is bs

 

[Luce NDs]

Of course once we all discuss and agree , but Better was insinuating to me, abuse of my moderation, which of course is bs

When you look at the Shadow representation of the good in the world ... as is BS! Yet some believe it without question or that metaphysical process called thought ... and you do know what real people say thought thought about!

It may come back at you unknown ...

 

[blackbelt1961]

When you look at the Shadow representation of the good in the world ... as is BS! Yet some believe it without question or that metaphysical process called thought ... and you do know what real people say thought thought about!

It may come back at you unknown ...

if i give it leeway

 

[BetteTheRed]

Of course once we all discuss and agree , but Betty was insinuating to me, abuse of my moderation, which of course is bs

Twice, in this forum alone, you have made pretty severe judgments of people: of those who deserve death, of those who don't deserve a listen, based on their communication style. I would be happy to go back and find your quotes. Whether you intend it or not, you come across as judgmental, and I'd argue that's a very poor qualification for a 'moderator'.

And my name is Bette, not Betty, and I find it very annoying that you mis-spell it, along with airclean. Would you like to randomly turn into yellowbelt?

 

[blackbelt1961]

Twice, in this forum alone, you have made pretty severe judgments of people: of those who deserve death

Im not sure what your smoking but, im curious, who did i say deserve death?

based on their communication style.

spamming is not Communication

I would be happy to go back and find your quotes.

Good, I will be happy to see them , please do

Whether you intend it or not, you come across as judgmental,

and of course you never are

and I'd argue that's a very poor qualification for a 'moderator'.

yet others thought different and hear I am

And my name is Bette, not Betty, and I find it very annoying that you mis-spell it, along with airclean. Would you like to randomly turn into yellowbelt?

well, I did have a yellowbelt when I started my martial arts career 40 ysr ago, so If you like you can call me that, no big deal with me, theres much bigger issues in life than misspelled names.



But with you it is a big deal, you take hypers over the smallest things , I meam your name came out as Betty because of auto correct while i was responding from my smart phone, it wasn't intentional, and ariclean, its obvious his command of english is not the best but he tries, to call him out on it actually says more about you than it does him



BTW, unless I called you Bobby , yellowbelt is not a misspelling of Blackbelt

 

[Luce NDs]

if i give it leeway

If you are extremely stoic ... you may never know !

 

[BetteTheRed]

definitely not the innocent , but the rest ,narcissist , un repented mass Murders is up for debate. Notice the least of these Jesus was speaking about were followers of Him, brothers and sisters in the faith, they were not Evil doers , Jesus had some choice words for the evil doers , words that the world does not like to attribute to Christ


And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

There's your quote, bb. I asked who was worthy of execution by the state and gave examples. You think that "definitely not the innocent" , but ""the rest, narcissist, unrepented mass Murders [sic]".

If you don't mean s**t, don't say it, but then don't throw back at me that I'm stoned because you don't remember your own quotes. I submit that the drinking of wine has a greater impact on memory than smoking. From personal experience.

 

[blackbelt1961]

There's your quote, bb. I asked who was worthy of execution by the state and gave examples. You think that "definitely not the innocent" , but ""the rest, narcissist, unrepented mass Murders [sic]".

Thanks for reposting it Bette, you are what one calls fake news . Because I knew what I said, read it again, no where did I say they deserve death, what I said was Its not my Judgment call , its societies , its called Capital punishment , further i said, if this exists in society , which clearly it does, then there is an issue .

If you don't mean s**t, don't say it,

I did mean it thats why i said it , It exists, you would be hard press not to admit that Evil, Capital punishment in society does not , and that Christ did not have some harsh word for the un repented evil does and what there destiny will be

but then don't throw back at me that I'm stoned because you don't remember your own quotes.

you must have been because you mis quoted me , like you do with the bible many times when theres verses you dont like

I submit that the drinking of wine has a greater impact on memory than smoking. From personal experience.

Not That I have never smoked but Im Italian remember, we are mastery at making and drinking wines

 

[airclean33]

I don't usually touch people I give money to on the street,
Airclean--post-- Why do you feel they will give you some kind of sickness?

Neo--post--
but I almost certainly look at them in the eyes and with a small smile say something like "here you go bud". The chances of that person using that money on drugs or alcohol may be good, I don't know.

Airclean--post--Your Bud,? and you just gave him or her the money to kill them self"s. Using Drugs or alcohol is good?

Neo--post--
But even if it was for drugs, that's his hell, not mine. We should always have compassion for him as a person, he's a fellow Human Being, it's part of the Golden Rule. Or as Pope Francis says, look at it as a kind of payment to the Universe for being "luckier" in life.

Airclean-post-- I can not understand a post like this. It's there hell not mine? We should always have compassion for them. So you feel they may, kill themselves that's is ok? Yes they are Human beings, and as such" are Loved by GOD". The same GOD" that is our Father", is there's as well. Any time a person is in hell, or headed there . It break's my heart , but I can't save them. There is but one person that can save ,if they" would just ask. I would be more than happy to tell or explain to them ,how to find HIM. An I am not scared to lay on hands.

 

[Neo]

Airclean-post-- I can not understand a post like this. It's there hell not mine? We should always have compassion for them. So you feel they may, kill themselves that's is ok? Yes they are Human beings, and as such" are Loved by GOD". The same GOD" that is our Father", is there's as well. Any time a person is in hell, or headed there . It break's my heart , but I can't save them. There is but one person that can save ,if they" would just ask. I would be more than happy to tell or explain to them ,how to find HIM. An I am not scared to lay on hands.

No, I don't think that giving money to somebody who's in the dire straits of hell is going to lead them to kill themselves. Starving on the street will kill them that's for sure, but giving them money? No.

But what I do think is wrong is for somebody to "pretend" to speak for God and then tell others that God has spoken personally to them, saying that giving money to one who is need of food and happens to be a drunk is "evil thinking". You are bearing false witness against GOD Itself. Would you also only give this person food "if" they agreed to listen to your preaching? There's nothing sincere or loving in this at all.

I don't believe you've actually found "HIM" Airclean, because "HE" always preached the exact opposite to this kind of ignorance and selfishness. Christ never said that it was "evil thinking" to help our fellow man. Not once. Yours is a theology on the extreme right of separation from the rest of Humanity. It's a place that, as far as I can see, has always brought grief and suffering in our lives. It's surely not the gospel of the Christ who spoke of unity and love so greatly that He deemed the 11th Commandment should be that we simply "love one another". No room for judgment in those simple words.

 

[blackbelt1961]

No, I don't think that giving money to somebody who's in the dire straits of hell is going to lead them to kill themselves. Starving on the street will kill them that's for sure, but giving them money? No.

.

My Brother was 32, an addict, he called me one day wanted money, I said no, I said, what ever you need let me know, I'll buy it for you , he told me he was hungry and that his Kitchen was empty so I told him ill take him shopping , he said i treat him like a kid and told me to F Off and hung up, 10 mim latter he called back , apologized and said ok,, so i drove to downtown Toronto, Picked him up, we went shopping , I filled up his kitchen and left. Next day He pulled the same thing on my older sister, she filled up his kitchen it was empty, only to figure out after we left , my brother packed everything up , took it all back to the store and got the money, and went and got high, His choice of drugs were opiates & morphine, we found him 2 days latter, it was too late for him.

what you dont get Neo, addicts are master manipulators, and are married to there addictions, money enables them more than any other way of helping. Toronto Hospice of full of food for them , thats not what they want, but they will have you believe it.

 

[Neo]

My Brother was 32, an addict, he called me one day wanted money, I said no, I said, what ever you need let me know, I'll buy it for you , he told me he was hungry and that his Kitchen was empty so I told him ill take him shopping , he said i treat him like a kid and told me to F Off and hung up, 10 mim latter he called back , apologized and said ok,, so i drove to downtown Toronto, Picked him up, we went shopping , I filled up his kitchen and left. Next day He pulled the same thing on my older sister, she filled up his kitchen it was empty, only to figure out after we left , my brother packed everything up , took it all back to the store and got the money, and went and got high, His choice of drugs were opiates & morphine, we found him 2 days latter, it was too late for him.

what you dont get Neo, addicts are master manipulators, and are married to there addictions, money enables them more than any other way of helping. Toronto Hospice of full of food for them , thats not what they want, but they will have you believe it.

First of all I'm sorry for your loss Blackbelt, that's a horrible way to lose somebody, especially a close family member. Secondly, I'm fully aware of how manipulative drug addicts can be. Crack addicts are probably worse for manipulation. I've experienced this first hand (via a close friend of mine) and I have no doubt about how sly and selfish they can be when they need a rock.

But, my point here is that there is no one blanket rule can be laid out when dealing with drug addicts or alcoholics. We can't simply paint everyone with the same brush. Some people have no money because they are alcoholics, while others are alcoholics because they have no money. Airclean is preaching a gospel where he claims "he" is in direct line with God and that God is telling him that all people are poor because they are alcoholics and that helping any alcoholic by giving them money is "evil thinking". I call BS. This is not the gospel of Christ.

 

[blackbelt1961]

First of all I'm sorry for your loss Blackbelt, that's a horrible way to lose somebody, especially a close family member. Secondly, I'm fully aware of how manipulative drug addicts can be. Crack addicts are probably worse for manipulation. I've experienced this first hand (via a close friend of mine) and I have no doubt about how sly and selfish they can be when they need a rock.

Thank you

But, my point here is that there is no one blanket rule can be laid out when dealing with drug addicts or alcoholics. We can't simply paint everyone with the same brush. Some people have no money because they are alcoholics, while others are alcoholics because they have no money. Airclean is preaching a gospel where he claims "he" is in direct line with God and that God is telling him that all people are poor because they are alcoholics and that helping any alcoholic by giving them money is "evil thinking". I call BS. This is not the gospel of Christ.

your right there is no clear cut answer, it is one of the most emotionally draining things, to try a help a addict, i have 2 sisters and 1 brother left, and to this day we still argue as to what else we could have done to save him , give them money or dont, they will find a way

 

[airclean33]

No, I don't think that giving money to somebody who's in the dire straits of hell is going to lead them to kill themselves. Starving on the street will kill them that's for sure, but giving them money? No.

Airclean-post -Hi Neo--You say yourself it could lead to over use. You also say that's there problem. I am sorry Neo but I care for others ,so much ,I don't want to hurt them. Only GOD knows for sure. I have no wish to enable them.

Neo--post--
But what I do think is wrong is for somebody to "pretend" to speak for God and then tell others that God has spoken personally to them, saying that giving money to one who is need of food and happens to be a drunk is "evil thinking". You are bearing false witness against GOD Itself. Would you also only give this person food "if" they agreed to listen to your preaching? There's nothing sincere or loving in this at all.

Airclean--post--So now you want to judge me ? Well I am not sure were you think you got this power from. I don't believe you have this kind of power. That you think a person who is saved by the blood of Christ. An is baptised with GODS Holly Spirit ,can not speak with GOD . Only goes to show you don't know" or understand" how GOD works.

Neo--Post---
I don't believe you've actually found "HIM" Airclean, because "HE" always preached the exact opposite to this kind of ignorance and selfishness. Christ never said that it was "evil thinking" to help our fellow man. Not once.

Airclean--post---
Jhn 14:26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.
Jhn 15:16You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide; so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.
Mat 4:3And the tempter came and said to him, "If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread."

Mat 4:4But he answered, "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.'
Ouur Lord Jesus was sent as the Lamb ,to save those that would except Him. He at this time was not sent to judge them. But He did what GOD told Him to do.If your save and go off on your own , you will be sure to mix it up.

Neo-- post---
Yours is a theology on the extreme right of separation from the rest of Humanity. It's a place that, as far as I can see, has always brought grief and suffering in our lives. It's surely not the gospel of the Christ who spoke of unity and love so greatly that He deemed the 11th Commandment should be that we simply "love one another". No room for judgment in those simple words.

--Airclean--post--
My theology is mixed up?Hear once again you make a judgement. My judge is Christ Jesus , I will do and obey Him". He has not sent us into the world to hurt. We are there to guide others into Finding Life, and Loving, the way it was meant to be. That is GODS Way" not mankind's way. When our Lord Jesus said Love one another He was talking to the brothers and sisters of followers. Yes we were all made by God . but being made by God dose not save you. We must except Christ and what He done for us , to have your name put in the, Book of life. All Glory is GODS. I am but a sinner saved by Grace.

 

[Neo]

--Airclean--post--
My theology is mixed up?Hear once again you make a judgement. My judge is Christ Jesus , I will do and obey Him". He has not sent us into the world to hurt. We are there to guide others into Finding Life, and Loving, the way it was meant to be. That is GODS Way" not mankind's way. When our Lord Jesus said Love one another He was talking to the brothers and sisters of followers. Yes we were all made by God . but being made by God dose not save you. We must except Christ and what He done for us , to have your name put in the, Book of life. All Glory is GODS. I am but a sinner saved by Grace.

Yes, I do think your theology is mixed up. But criticising (and discussing) one's belief system is far different than judging one on being an alcoholic.

I do admire your conviction to your beliefs, however, it's something that's lacking in so many people today. But reading scripture through rose coloured glasses can easily change the meaning of that scripture. I know I'm guilty of that too, we all are. We're all trying to view the centre from our own point of view. Our "truths" are therefore only partial truths, depending on our awareness, our culture, and our point of view in life.