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He really was upset at someone blocking the transit of the tunnel ... sort of like transmutation when he finally was enlightened ... by digging the po' thing out ...
 
dreamerman ---love Precious ----he shows so well the spiritual battle that we fight every day -----wrestling with the good and bad thoughts ----

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Is it just me, or do 'religious' folk seem to be more tempted than we "run of the mill" ordinary joes?

Resisting evil, spiritual battles, ruling over temptations. I'm no saint, by any stretch of the imagination, but I honestly don't feel very tempted to do even slightly bad things on a regular basis. And I certainly don't think of 'religion' in any way as 'making me behave well'. With apologies for an over-blunt communication style, I largely feel that I get through life making reasonably kind choices on a regular basis.
 
Some would rather fight the facts as fictional than make love to the imagination and see what comes of it!

Creation comes slower when you learn of the dangers of either ... and ether;like substance as light absorbs inde dark settled spot ... the dot-Eires ... negative PIXs!
 
BetteTheRed said:
Is it just me, or do 'religious' folk seem to be more tempted than we "run of the mill" ordinary joes?

Resisting evil, spiritual battles, ruling over temptations. I'm no saint, by any stretch of the imagination, but I honestly don't feel very tempted to do even slightly bad things on a regular basis. And I certainly don't think of 'religion' in any way as 'making me behave well'. With apologies for an over-blunt communication style, I largely feel that I get through life making reasonably kind choices on a regular basis.
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-Hi BetteTheRed---I understand this post is your thoughts. How ever looking at it an reading it. It would seem you use a lot of I's . YOU MAKE THE CHOICE . A born again would probably say, God has said do this or do that. The one person I understand use's I a lot" is that guy who said I" shell put my thrown above GODS. You see he had made a choice of his mind, Not GODS.
 
"I" use a lot of "I"s because it's a convention of Western English. Were I Korean, for instance, I would use "we" and "our" instead, because they are a more communal culture.

It was a serious question. Unsafe is always going on about temptation and satan and evil lurking, etc. Jae seems convinced he'd be the moral equivalent of an axe murderer without his faith. It simply isn't the way I view the world, and I find it curious and off-putting.
 
BetteTheRed ----your quote -----I honestly don't feel very tempted to do even slightly bad things on a regular basis. And I certainly don't think of 'religion' in any way as 'making me behave well' ----I largely feel that I get through life making reasonably kind choices on a regular basis.

Well good for you ----you have it all together all by yourself it seem -------

There are many who say ---

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I am not so fortunate ----I needed a Saviour ----I wasn't doing so well on my own power ---Religion had nothing to do with my conversion -----some kind of evil spirit in my house brought me to Jesus ------an exorcism of my home was preformed by the Padre and it fixed the problem ----I never believed in any of that stuff until it happened to me -----I was lucky the Padre was born again and understood what was going on -----I figured I would be told to check myself into the mental hospital ---I was so happy when he said I believe you -----

So you can believe that or not but that is the truth ----

I had to fess up and say ---and I am so glad I did ----I Praise and Thank God every day for me relying on Him to overcome my trials and difficult situations -----

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I think there's a fine line between believing you need no help whatsoever in becoming God-aware verses God will do everything for you and all you have to do is believe.

Faith is initiatory to actually walking the path to salvation, I believe. Neither God or Christ will pick you up and carry you the whole way. What's the point if that were the case?
 
BetteTheRed said:
"I" use a lot of "I"s because it's a convention of Western English. Were I Korean, for instance, I would use "we" and "our" instead, because they are a more communal culture.

It was a serious question. Unsafe is always going on about temptation and satan and evil lurking, etc. Jae seems convinced he'd be the moral equivalent of an axe murderer without his faith. It simply isn't the way I view the world, and I find it curious and off-putting.
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BetteThe Red--I have wish to judge your way of walking through life. For half my life, I was a I" or me" person. But thanks be to GOD, Christ Jesus came into my life, an made me a Yes" Lord Person. Myself I found I" didn't even know," right from wrong. So I had made many mistakes". But now there is not much of an I" anymore. There is a me", with my Lord" an GOD" .
 
Bette - I was actually an adult teaching Sunday School before a parent confronted me with the fact that her child lied to her (about doing her homework), and wasn't I supposed to be teaching her better. Until then it had never occured to me that some people expected me to be teaching their children to 'be good'.
I tried to convey a lot of things to the children during my half hour with them on the Sundays their parents brought them to church: things like, you are loved and valued by the church and by God. God knows you and by God's grace you are loved. You can respond to God's love by loving God and loving others. If you make a mistake or forget God's love, you are forgiven.
Not in those words, of course. But that idea.
In my own life I have made mistakes, and I have lived with the consequences. But I have trusted in God and on the whole I think I am a pretty good person. Not perfect - sometimes I tend to jump to conclusions, sometimes I get angry or impatient, or reluctant to get involved. But I don't consider myself 'tempted' to any great degree.
My faith doesn't 'make me good', or 'keep me from sinning'.
My faith enriches my life.
 
Neo said:
I think there's a fine line between believing you need no help whatsoever in becoming God-aware verses God will do everything for you and all you have to do is believe.
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Actually, the sola gratia folks, like Calvinists, would argue even believing isn't a requirement. Faith, for them, is a product of Grace, not a requirement for receiving it.

Neo said:
Faith is initiatory to actually walking the path to salvation, I believe. Neither God or Christ will pick you up and carry you the whole way. What's the point if that were the case?
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Kind of my thinking though I waver on the point. I find it hard to buy the idea that our actions aren't relevant to our ultimate destiny. Probably why the Oriental traditions appeal to me. They are all works-driven for the most part. Follow the path, meditate, etc. and you will find ultimate reality (not necessarily God, since not all of them are theistic).

OTOH, if there truly IS an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, and loving personal God, how could our actions have any impact on such a being? Nothing we do would change God's understanding of us or love for us and omnipotence would definitely leave the power of choice in God's hands no matter what we chose to do. God would know what was coming and why and still love and save us in spite of that so given certain parameters for "God", sola gratia makes a whole hell of a lot of sense.
 
BetteTheRed said:
"I" use a lot of "I"s because it's a convention of Western English. Were I Korean, for instance, I would use "we" and "our" instead, because they are a more communal culture.
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I've never noticed a tendency with my Korean family and friends to use "we" and "our" instead of "I" and "mine," and my wife and sons are all first-generation. The Korean culture is traditionally more communal as you suggest, however, and perhaps they use "we" and "our" more when they are speaking in Korean.

BetteTheRed said:
It was a serious question. Unsafe is always going on about temptation and satan and evil lurking, etc. Jae seems convinced he'd be the moral equivalent of an axe murderer without his faith. It simply isn't the way I view the world, and I find it curious and off-putting.
Click to expand...

I believe that God has given me a relationship with himself through Christ, and that without said relationship, I'd still be in bondage to the evil powers that I believe have kidnapped our world. Does that mean that I'd be an axe murderer? Perhaps on a moral plane. I believe that, in a spiritual sense, my captivity to the powers put Christ on the cross.
 
Neo said:
I think there's a fine line between believing you need no help whatsoever in becoming God-aware verses God will do everything for you and all you have to do is believe.

Faith is initiatory to actually walking the path to salvation, I believe. Neither God or Christ will pick you up and carry you the whole way. What's the point if that were the case?
Click to expand...
Hi Neo --I wonder why you get things mixed up so much. It is because Humankind all got it wrong that The Christ was sent though the body of Jesus. So He being perfect through out His life and death could save us. Will Christ come and pick you up (YES). Read what happened , when Peter lost faith well walking on the water, Did Christ come to save him?


Mat- 14:30but when he saw the wind, he was afraid, and beginning to sink he cried out, "Lord, save me."
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Mat 14:31Jesus immediately reached out his hand and caught him, saying to him, "O man of little faith, why did you doubt?"
 
Curiously, airclean, what did you think was right that you now realize was wrong?

Humans are born with the potential for morality, aided/abetted by parenting, the most important years of which are the very early ones. If we're just a normal, regular person, doing the next right thing every day, as well as we can, without any great revelations from "god", what might we unwittingly be doing that is 'wrong'?
 
Mendalla said:
Actually, the sola gratia folks, like Calvinists, would argue even believing isn't a requirement. Faith, for them, is a product of Grace, not a requirement for receiving it.



Kind of my thinking though I waver on the point. I find it hard to buy the idea that our actions aren't relevant to our ultimate destiny. Probably why the Oriental traditions appeal to me. They are all works-driven for the most part. Follow the path, meditate, etc. and you will find ultimate reality (not necessarily God, since not all of them are theistic).

OTOH, if there truly IS an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, and loving personal God, how could our actions have any impact on such a being? Nothing we do would change God's understanding of us or love for us and omnipotence would definitely leave the power of choice in God's hands no matter what we chose to do. God would know what was coming and why and still love and save us in spite of that so given certain parameters for "God", sola gratia makes a whole hell of a lot of sense.
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--Are we thrown out, JOHN 3:16-21? I believe this shows as the Apostles were teaching . You are saved by knowing who Christ Jesus is. An buy accepting that fact.
 
BetteTheRed said:
Curiously, airclean, what did you think was right that you now realize was wrong?

Humans are born with the potential for morality, aided/abetted by parenting, the most important years of which are the very early ones. If we're just a normal, regular person, doing the next right thing every day, as well as we can, without any great revelations from "god", what might we unwittingly be doing that is 'wrong'?
Click to expand...
--Ok Lets look at Neighbors. You here yours is in need of food , because they have no money left. So you walk over and hand Him 100 Dollars. You feel good about this , as you feel you have obeyed GODS Word". Wrong " GOD would never had sent you there to give your Neighbor money . You see GOD knows your Neighbor is a drunk, that's why they have no money. You have given him money to drink. I believe, This is doing evil thinking good. GOD always thinks good , and would have told you" how to deal with it.
 
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