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Mendalla said:
But why would Islam's view of Jesus be relevant to a Christian?
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Because God doesn't watch his son die in the Quran, so it's relevant if you're looking to put God in a positive, less death-happy light.

Mendalla said:
Their texts are even more remote in time from his time than yours so are likely entirely composed of doctrine and fable. Islam learned about Jesus from Christians and then developed their own view (because the whole Son of God thing doesn't fly with their extremely transcendent understanding of God). You at least have some texts close enough to his time to have some historical validity.
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Approximately 40-80 years after the supposed death of Jesus, sure.
 
chansen said:
Because God doesn't watch his son die in the Quran, so it's relevant if you're looking to put God in a positive, less death-happy light.


Approximately 40-80 years after the supposed death of Jesus, sure.
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Whatever gives you the idea that Christians believe God was happy about Jesus' death?
 
God sacrificing His own Son has nothing to do what He ask Abraham to do ----God sending His Son to die on the Cross and shed His Blood to free us from sin and death was in God's Plan from the beginning ---that is evident in Genesis ----when God shed blood from the animals to make cloths for Adam and Eve ----which by shedding the blood covered their sin for a time -----

Jesus was in the plan before God created the earth as was Satan ------otherwise He wouldn't have brought in evil to tempt us -----Sin was in the plan ----shed Blood was the antidote for sin and it was in the plan -----God's plan is still working out ----Satan is still the god of non believers until God's plan comes to an end -----
 
unsafe said:
God sacrificing His own Son has nothing to do what He ask Abraham to do ----God sending His Son to die on the Cross and shed His Blood to free us from sin and death was in God's Plan from the beginning ---that is evident in Genesis ----when God shed blood from the animals to make cloths for Adam and Eve ----which by shedding the blood covered their sin for a time -----

Jesus was in the plan before God created the earth as was Satan ------otherwise He wouldn't have brought in evil to tempt us -----Sin was in the plan ----shed Blood was the antidote for sin and it was in the plan -----God's plan is still working out ----Satan is still the god of non believers until God's plan comes to an end -----
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lev 17:11 For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life.

Life covering Life, Life is God
 
Pontifex Geronimo 13 said:
The Koran thinks (states) that the trinity is made up of God, Jesus, and Mary.
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Because they don't buy the traditional notion of the Trinity. A divided God seems rather ridiculous to them. However, this is not a thread on Muslim views of Jesus.

chansen said:
Approximately 40-80 years after the supposed death of Jesus, sure.
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Which is close enough in time to have known people who were there or at least have heard the stories with minimal steps in between. It's as much evidence as we have for some major figures in the classical world, really (e.g. there is actually no direct, contemporary account of Alexander extent, only later texts based on the contemporary accounts and sometimes those are 2 or 3 generations of text removed). As opposed to the Quran which was written 600ish years later and after several centuries of doctrine had muddled the story even on the Christian side.
 
Jae said:
Whatever gives you the idea that Christians believe God was happy about Jesus' death?
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I'm sorry. I'm sure God was unhappy that his son had to die to save humanity from the thing God cursed humanity with. But it was out of God's hands.
 
Mendalla said:
Which is close enough in time to have known people who were there or at least have heard the stories with minimal steps in between. It's as much evidence as we have for some major figures in the classical world, really (e.g. there is actually no direct, contemporary account of Alexander extent, only later texts based on the contemporary accounts and sometimes those are 2 or 3 generations of text removed). As opposed to the Quran which was written 600ish years later and after several centuries of doctrine had muddled the story even on the Christian side.
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Right, but we're still talking a long time, and authors who were not eyewitnesses.
 
chansen said:
I'm sorry. I'm sure God was unhappy that his son had to die to save humanity from the thing God cursed humanity with. But it was out of God's hands.
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Biblically, it was humanity's responsibility that the world fell into the hands of evil. God was immensely grieved when his Son voluntarily died in the place of man.
 
Waterfall said:
Isaac was more than likely a grown man in his early thirties.....around the same age as Jesus when he was crucified.
I would think both knew what was happening.
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Admittedly timelines in Genesis are difficult to follow (it was only after many times looking at the story that I realized IShmael was 13 (the age of Bar Mitzvah in Jewish custom) when Isaac was born and Sarah convinced Abraham to toss HAgar and Ishmael out on their ear -- which makes the story of Hagar leaving Ishmael under a bush seem a little odd) but I don't see anything in the text to suggest ISaac was that old. More than an infant most assuredly, but not a full adult.
 
Pontifex Geronimo 13 said:
Not sure what you are talking about, but your answer should be here:
http://www.berenddeboer.net/sab/
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That's hilarious. It just dismisses arguments by saying that science can't be trusted to say that stars came before the Earth, among other things.

http://www.berenddeboer.net/sab/gen/1.html

And here is an online conversation between this guy and the creator of the Skeptic's Annotated Bible:

http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.ca/2014/10/guest-post-apparent-contradictions-part.html
 
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