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This scripture is important ----to our understanding ---Scripture

Proverbs 4:7 (AMP)
7
“The beginning of wisdom is: Get [skillful and godly] wisdom [it is preeminent]!
And with all your acquiring, get understanding [actively seek spiritual discernment, mature comprehension, and logical interpretation].

The scriptures answers the question about why Abraham gave up Isaac ------

First of all God made a Promise to Abraham ----The Promise included a Son called Isaac -----that Promise came true ----so Abraham has all the Faith that he needed ------God says in verse ---Gen 17 v19-- But God answered:
No! You and Sarah will have a son. His name will be Isaac,[c]and I will make an everlasting promise to him and his descendants.


God already knew Abraham would obey Him and Abraham already knew and had the Faith that God does not break His Promises so he had no fear in obeying God's Command ----- 7 I will always keep the promise I have made to you and your descendants, because I am your God and their God.

Genesis 17Contemporary English Version (CEV)


God’s Promise to Abraham ----READ ALL HERE ---https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+17&version=CEV


17 Abraham bowed with his face to the ground and thought, “I am almost a hundred years old. How can I become a father? And Sarah is ninety. How can she have a child?” So he started laughing.18 Then he asked God, “Why not let Ishmael[b]inherit what you have promised me?”
19 But God answered:
No! You and Sarah will have a son. His name will be Isaac,[c]and I will make an everlasting promise to him and his descendants.


Genesis 22 NKJV
The Sacrifice of Isaac

3 So Abraham rose early in the morning and saddled his donkey, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son; and he split the wood for the burnt offering, and arose and went to the place of which God had told him.4 Then on the third day Abraham lifted his eyes and saw the place afar off.5 And Abraham said to his young men, “Stay here with the donkey; the lad[a]and I will go yonder and worship, and we will come back to you.”


unsafe says --------We will come back to you ---says it all ----Abraham was confirming his Faith in his obedience to take action on God's command and that he would return with his son in tact to the men that came with him ---

unsafe says ---------The scriptures below ----tell you the answer ---- ]19 concluding that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead, from which he also received him in a figurative sense.


Hebrews 11:17-19(NKJV)

The Faith of the Patriarchs

17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,18 of whom it was said,“In Isaac your seed shall be called,”[a]19 concluding that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead, from which he also received him in a figurative sense.

James 2:21-22 (NKJV)

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?


unsafe says ----------Faith requires right action ------God gave the Command for Abraham to sacrifice his son -----and Abraham confirmed his full trust in God's Promise by acting out the command ---- His name will be Isaac,[c]and I will make an everlasting promise to him and his descendants.

He was confirming his full trust in God to keep His promise by actively doing what God commanded -----God does not go back on His promises --and God does not give and then take away what he has given ----Satan is the robber ---the liar and the thief not God ------

Abraham knew and Trusted all along that Isaac would return with him ----he had no doubt ----no fear ----Full trust in God drives out all fear and doubt ----

Bible says cast not away your confidence for it has great rewards ----

New Living Translation-----Hebrews 10:35-------So do not throw away this confident trust in the Lord. Remember the great reward it brings you!

Study Bible -----http://biblehub.com/hebrews/10-35.htm

A Call to Persevere
…34You sympathized with those in prison and joyfully accepted the confiscation of your property, knowing that you yourselves had a better and permanent possession.35So do not throw away your confidence ;it holds a great reward.36You need to persevere, so that after you have done God’s will, you will receive what He has promised.


God puts tests before His Children up to us to trust fully what God has Promised by putting our faith into the right action to get the right results ----Abraham did just that ------
 
God already knew Abrahams faith was solid......in fact Abraham told the people" the boy and I will go up and worship and WE will return to you", not "I will return", after going up the mountain.

Right. Abraham knew two things.

1. To obey he had to sacrifice Isaac.

2. God would make him the father of many nations and Isaac was the child of promise.
 
But you just said God tells us not to murder, but at the same time tells Abraham to kill his son. Isn't that a contradiction?

No because when we speak of God we generalize His being and Character , God is not just a God like any other God , To Abraham , God is the Giver and sustainer of Life , To give his sons life, like us , is to give his son , our children into the hands of the Life Giver, that is ultimate trust and faith, Jesus did it on the cross
 
Probably why they say God lives within us and outside of us.......although I find it hard to believe that we could create perfection(God) without actually "being it".


We didn't create God, though. We created an imaginary being that we call God that may or may not resemble a real ultimate reality. I've never bought the argument that perfection must exist for us to be able to imagine it. Human imagination is one of our most powerful (and most human) faculties and there seems to be little limit on what it can conceive.
 
Again I ask, as disturbing as this story is, why you only see God offering only two choices that absolutely don't line up with God's character?
Hi Waterfall I believe this statement is wrong. Who put the forbidden tree in the garden? Was it not GOD, yet He knew what would happen
did he not. Many times Israel were put in a place that they had to make a choice. Most of the time they made the wrong one.
 
sidenote - the Quran tells this story too - although the son is not named. The Muslim view is that the son in this story is the first born son, Ishmael - who volunteered to be sacrificed. I think that Eid al-Adha, which celebrates this story, is the holiest of the Muslim holidays.
 
God puts tests before His Children up to us to trust fully what God has Promised by putting our faith into the right action to get the right results ----Abraham did just that ------

Back to square one, an all knowing God already knows.....He doesn't need to test Abraham, because He knows the answer already.
Again, I personally believe this whole exercise was for God to reveal to Abraham and others, who God really is.....not a God that demands sacrifices.
 
We didn't create God, though. We created an imaginary being that we call God that may or may not resemble a real ultimate reality. I've never bought the argument that perfection must exist for us to be able to imagine it. Human imagination is one of our most powerful (and most human) faculties and there seems to be little limit on what it can conceive.
Can you describe "beyond perfection" to me by using your imagination?
 
God already knew Abrahams faith was solid......
in fact Abraham told the people" the boy and I will go up and worship and WE will return to you", not "I will return", after going up the mountain.

can the people see God ?, can you and I see God? no, no body can see a Eternal being greater that what we are , so all the people had was Abraham, why do you think Jesus had to show us the way? because we can not see the Creator we see Him In Jesus , we need a physical attachment to see the actions because we are physical people
 
God tests all His Children -----that is very clear in scripture ---you don't have to understand it ---if you don't want to -----that is your choice ----it is for our benefit not God's -----

Read all article here ---https://www.gotquestions.org/why-does-god-test-us.html

Question: "Why does God test us?"Answer:
When we ask why God tests us or allows us to be tested, we are admitting that testing does indeed come from Him. When God tests His children, He does a valuable thing. David sought God’s testing, asking Him to examine his heart and mind and see that they were true to Him (Psalm 26:2;139:23). When Abram was tested by God in the matter of sacrificing Isaac, Abram obeyed (Hebrews 11:17–19) and showed to all the world that he is the father of faith (Romans 4:16).

In both the Old and New Testaments, the words translated “test” mean “to prove by trial.” Therefore, when God tests His children, His purpose is to prove that our faith is real. Not that God needs to prove it to Himself since He knows all things, but He is proving to us that our faith is real, that we are truly His children, and that no trial will overcome our faith.
 
Hi Waterfall I believe this statement is wrong. Who put the forbidden tree in the garden? Was it not GOD, yet He knew what would happen
did he not. Many times Israel were put in a place that they had to make a choice. Most of the time they made the wrong one.
The choice doesn't exist if you know God.
 
The mind" of Humankind is not the same as GODS mind". That I believe is why Our God" has given us the Holy Spirit" to help us . Which is the mind of GOD".
 
can the people see God ?, can you and I see God? no, no body can see a Eternal being greater that what we are , so all the people had was Abraham, why do you think Jesus had to show us the way? because we can not see the Creator we see Him In Jesus , we need a physical attachment to see the actions because we are physical people
But the physical body of Jesus is no longer here and you have nothing to see now either....so why do you believe? Why do you need a physical attachment to believe?
 
But the physical body of Jesus is no longer here and you have nothing to see now either....so why do you believe? Why do you need a physical attachment to believe?

you have History of the physical man Jesus , you have writings, you have witnesses,you have the birth of the Church, you have testimonies & miracles through out the ages, you have the Holy Spirit, when all come together and you experience what the Apostles did in spiritual guidance and spiritual witness that the events that took place 2000 ysr ago are factual accounts, then your little faith , like Abraham, is so stretched to a point of belief and trust in a Creator that you know, not just believe ,, but know that your life, your kids lives , all lives does not end at the grave but continues on , that is a promises of the Creator proven in Jesus, witnessed by 500, given birth to the church by the effect of it.

unless of course you expect Jesus to die over and over for ever single generation that exists, has existed and will exist

Yahweh is the cause, we , like Abraham, are His effect, The Potter and the clay
 
Can you describe "beyond perfection" to me by using your imagination?

The most useful definition of perfection is "complete", as in having "perfect" knowledge of something. In that sense, there is nothing "beyond". It is also generally unattainable. No one has perfect knowledge of anything save, arguably, God. And that's assuming God exists and isn't a concept we are projecting on to reality. However, we can conceive of/imagine that there is a being that has "perfect" knowledge (ie. we can believe in God) so that's as close as I can come to answering your question. We have no proof there is a God, but we can conceive that such might exist.

From my standpoint, the universe/multiverse (whichever it may be) is arguably "perfect" in that it fully encompasses all of the processes, matter, and energy needed to sustain it's existence. It is complete and self-sustaining. However, our knowledge of that universe/multiverse remains incomplete (including whether it is a universe or multiverse) and therefore imperfect, which can lead us to think the universe/multiverse itself is imperfect.


Moral perfection is a whole other sphere. Arguably, existence is relational and morality is determined by how "right" we are in our relationships (with each other as individuals, with our communities, with the world, with "God" should such exist, and so on). Moral perfection would require "complete" knowledge of what is right in every single relationship and situation. Again, we can conceive that there is a being who knows with absolute certainty what is right in every situation and relationship and call that being "God". Alas, that being is not us and our knowledge of what is right in every situation and relationship is far from perfect. So, again, we can imagine that it is possible to be "perfect" in one's knowledge of what is right, but we have no evidence that such perfection actually exists because our own moral knowledge is woefully incomplete. We can just take stabs at finding out what is right.
 
In both the Old and New Testaments, the words translated “test” mean “to prove by trial.” Therefore, when God tests His children, His purpose is to prove that our faith is real. Not that God needs to prove it to Himself since He knows all things, but He is proving to us that our faith is real, that we are truly His children, and that no trial will overcome our faith.

So God offers a horrendous choice so we can prove our faith is real?......that makes God barbaric, IMO.
 
you have History of the physical man Jesus , you have writings, you have witnesses,you have the birth of the Church, you have testimonies & miracles through out the ages, you have the Holy Spirit, when all come together and you experience what the Apostles did in spiritual guidance and spiritual witness that the events that took place 2000 ysr ago are factual accounts, then your little faith , like Abraham, is so stretched to a point of belief and trust in a Creator that you know, not just believe ,, but know that your life, your kids lives , all lives does not end at the grave but continues on , that is a promises of the Creator proven in Jesus, witnessed by 500, given birth to the church by the effect of it.

unless of course you expect Jesus to die over and over for ever single generation that exists, has existed and will exist

Yahweh is the cause, we , like Abraham, are His effect, The Potter and the clay
It wasn't me that said we required a physical attachment to believe, it was you.
"Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believed" John 20:29
 
The most useful definition of perfection is "complete", as in having "perfect" knowledge of something. In that sense, there is nothing "beyond". It is also generally unattainable. No one has perfect knowledge of anything save, arguably, God. And that's assuming God exists and isn't a concept we are projecting on to reality. However, we can conceive of/imagine that there is a being that has "perfect" knowledge (ie. we can believe in God) so that's as close as I can come to answering your question. We have no proof there is a God, but we can conceive that such might exist.
.

Do we hold in our minds the reality of what happens after death? Can we create that concept without resorting to this world to create our imaginings? We have nothing that relates, we lack knowledge...it is "beyond" us....possibly beyond perfection? possibly not. There is an element we cannot create.
 
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