We just keep babbling on (Genesis 11:1-9)

[GeoFee]

Agreed. Technology is subject to right use. I do not see this in our world. I see technology misused, which brings harm, and abused, which brings danger.

 

[JayneWonders]

GeoFee, surprised you have such a focussed telescopic lens

Let's see how how this relates to the tower of babel

The tower would have used technology to build. Was it also the process of the build itself that was the issue?

 

[Lastpointe]

Going back to Babel, I like the story. Like many stories in the bible, to me , it is ancient people giving an explaination for something not understood. Similar to the creation stories

so this story is how everyone was together in one language, and then separated and developed separate languages and cultures

but also showing that deep down we are all from the same stock nd the same roots

 

[Mendalla]

I think the story makes the point that language itself is, to an extent, a technology. For people to be able to work together to build something like the tower, they need to be able to communicate ideas, give orders, discuss problems, and so on. Removing that communication derails the project.

As a writer, language is my tool. My word processor is just the interface. It is the language that I use to tell the story that is the real "technology". I use different words for a fantasy story than for a horror story because I am aiming to achieve a different effect.

Can language be misused/abused, just as other technologies can? Sure. Just ask anyone who has studied propaganda. Just look at the language used by the alt-right and others trying to sow hatred and discord.

Which bring me to

Agreed. Technology is subject to right use. I do not see this in our world. I see technology misused, which brings harm, and abused, which brings danger.

I do not see that. Yes, I see technology misused, but I also see it being used constructively and for the betterment of humanity.

Focusing on communication, the subject of the story, we are using technologies originally created for communication by the US military-industrial complex (specifically the Internet and the TCP/IP protocol stack) to discuss the finer points of the human condition like spirituality and values. Repurposing a technology from a destructive purpose to a constructive one strikes me as the exact opposite of what you describe. It gives us new ways to communicate, to transmit and receive language and collaborate. Not at all an abuse of technology.

 

[Lastpointe]

And how language evolves. Learning to read and understand Shakespeare, in English but not the English we know

 

[Lastpointe]

And throughout history adults have always worried about changing technologies and the damage done to society and children
remember the idea not to sit too close to that little black and white tv?
don’t talk on the phone, just run over to your friends house. Our family of six had one phone, on the kitchen wall. Pretty hard to have privacy
then the fuss over computers, video games action figures, action movies......

always society will be ruined!

 

[GeoFee]

The tower would have used technology to build. Was it also the process of the build itself that was the issue?

The primary issue, for me, in the Tower of Babel story is pride seeking to overcome the presence of God. God understood, by me, as the whole which is greater than the sum of its parts. The building project is a metaphor making clear that human pride will lead to the division of our common human being. In our time frame this is very relevant. Are we not building a civilization that has eclipsed nature by resort to the artificial? This agenda being grounded in the philosophy of persons like Thomas Hobbes, who made clear our human ambition to exercise power for the replacement of the natural with the artificial. This in service to the "restless striving of power seeking power."

I will suggest reading Naomi Klein's "On Fire". Her substantial research makes clear that our planet is in a crisis. This due to global warming, which is the consequence of our politically endorsed corporate misuse and abuse of science and technology. Naomi is not the only author speaking clearly concerning the crisis of humanity and its environment.

 

[GeoFee]

I also see it being used constructively and for the betterment of humanity.

Are you saying that humanity has been bettered by the agenda of progress?

 

[unsafe]

The scripture says first they built a city ----then they built a tower to reach the heavens ---
Nimrod ---was a skilled hunter before the Lord and he was a builder of cities -----God gave him his abilities in this area ----and it is God who gives all humans their skilled abilities ---

Jesus said in John 15:5 ----I am the vine you are the branches -----apart from me you can do nothing -----
God gave Nimrod the technical skills to build the city and tower ----- Nimrod was mocking God in his plan to reach the heavens -----

The city was built so they wouldn't need to scatter over the earth ---the Tower was built to make a name for themselves ----so the city and the tower are the outward expressions of their inward sins ------so the 2 sins are the love of security and the love of praise ------

We are not to find joy in being Praised ----we are to find joy in knowing and Praising God ---His will is not for us to find security in building cities but to find security in relying on Him through our obedience to do His will -----

So we see that even after the flood and the new beginning that God wanted for His Creation --the Human condition did not change it remained the same as it was with Adam and Even after they disobeyed God ----human kind will decide what is best for themselves ---the tower shows they wanted to rise up and take the place of God ----and this is the way it still is today ----The human fallen condition remains except for those who receive His redeeming Grace ----

God did a very smart thing -----scrambling their communication skills-----in doing this he divided one people into many people who would scatter and fill the earth as He wanted -----His Will was done -----and Divided-- The Sinners fell ----

 

[Mendalla]

Are you saying that humanity has been bettered by the agenda of progress?

I am saying there is no agenda (see footnote). Technological progress began with Home Habilis and Homo Erectus making the first stone tools and has moved naturally onwards from there. Curiousity, imagination, and necessity drive progress, not some agenda. And, yes, we have been bettered in many ways. Diseases that were fatal to our ancestors are mere nuisances today. Communication is facilitated among people around the world. Ideas can be shared whether on paper or pixels. Those seem like improvements to me. If there is a problem, it is that social progress has not always kept up with technological progress, which is the source of problems we see today. But that's a human problems for humans to solve and has nothing to do with technology itself.

Anyhow, this merits its own thread so I'm not engaging any further with the subject in this one.

Footnote: I will concede that corporations may attempt to steer technological progress to suit their agendas, but they are not the source or cause of technological progress and it was happening long before corporations as we know them existed. Hence, no agenda.

 

[GeoFee]

I am saying there is no agenda (see footnote). Technological progress began with Home Habilis and Homo Erectus making the first stone tools and has moved naturally onwards from there. Curiousity, imagination, and necessity drive progress, not some agenda. And, yes, we have been bettered in many ways. Diseases that were fatal to our ancestors are mere nuisances today. Communication is facilitated among people around the world. Ideas can be shared whether on paper or pixels. Those seem like improvements to me. If there is a problem, it is that social progress has not always kept up with technological progress, which is the source of problems we see today. But that's a human problems for humans to solve and has nothing to do with technology itself.

Anyhow, this merits its own thread so I'm not engaging any further with the subject in this one.

Footnote: I will concede that corporations may attempt to steer technological progress to suit their agendas, but they are not the source or cause of technological progress and it was happening long before corporations as we know them existed. Hence, no agenda.

I too will let the matter go.

 

[BetteTheRed]

Like many stories in the bible, to me , it is ancient people giving an explaination for something not understood. Similar to the creation stories

Yes, sometimes the Bible reads like an ancient version of Aesop's fables, or the "Just So" stories by Kipling.

 

[Mendalla]

Yes, sometimes the Bible reads like an ancient version of Aesop's fables, or the "Just So" stories by Kipling.

There is definitely that aspect to this story, but I think there is a deeper aspect that some of us are getting at, too.

 

[BetteTheRed]

I just had a thought. What if the binary code of computers is the true return to a universal language?

What might God be planning to do about this one?

 

[Mendalla]

I just had a thought. What if the binary code of computers is the true return to a universal language?

What might God be planning to do about this one?

The funny thing is that the global standard Unicode basically allows encoding of any character set, including things like emojis. So the Chinese can keep using Chinese characters and Europeans and North Americans can keep using our alphabet and so on, but any program properly implemented can handle any of them. My wife uses a keyboard on her phone and tab that can switch from typing English to typing Chinese (you type the Pinyin transliteration and it suggests characters using autocorrect) with the tap of a button or two.

 

[Redbaron]

I just had a thought. What if the binary code of computers is the true return to a universal language?

What might God be planning to do about this one?

As it is written in the book of numbers, "10000111101101 10011100000101010101 1001101."
Maybe that answers your question?

 

[jimkenney12]

At seminary, it was suggested this story was developed by wandering Aramean shepherds poking fun at the people who built the ziggurats they saw crumbling in the desert. It started as a story about human vanity and became a theological story in the writing of Genesis.

 

[Luce NDs]

IO's A LOT THATS JUST HOW BINARY MINDS WORK! It's the way things swing between unity (sol) and nothing ... a great void of passion and wants countered by thought (being something else other than nothing) ... a mass've folk would rather not know or be unknowing ...

Thus the folks of virtue go ... that's the truth!

 

[Mendalla]

FYI, there is a new BPotW coming this week (sorry about the slip last week). It's all written and will be posted tomorrow morning. If you want to read ahead, it's 2 Sam 11-12. A bit longer than in the past but you need both chapters to get the full story. Please wait until the thread goes up to discuss it.