Was Adam part of the creation process?

[Bolt_upright]

I believe Adam was created before day 6 and was the first
Angelic creation and is the embodiment of the Word becoming flesh and is like Yeshua in flesh after resurrection.
I believe Yeshua is born again/reincarnated Adam in the flesh but in Spirit is like Most High.
I believe that Adam was "present" while all creation was established, except for the creation of the "woman" where he is present, but "in a deep sleep".
I believe Adam to be the first light bearer. Or what people refer to as lucifer meaning light bearer.

I believe day six that Adam made covenant with Most High and every form of creation as it was being created. Especially with mankind.
The Mankind created on day six were exactly like Adam in the sense before woman was separated from Adam.
Day 6 mankind were like Adam to where they had the image and likeness of both male and female in one body. How many that were created is up for debate I guess.

Adam was king of the earth and high priest to the heavens, until iniquity was found in him.

Cheers

 

[Waterfall]

In the garden, the whole creation of Adam/woman is like the oposite of the virgin woman bearing a man child. The man had a small piece removed and woman was formed but was adult woman. As oposed to small part of woman was removed to form a man child as was born an infant male.

Humanity was created from the union of the father of all (Adam) and the holy spirit (Eve).

Then God said, "let us make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness, .....in the image of God he created him,..... male and female he created them. Genesis 1:26-27.

And this is how Jesus was conceived also.....the union of both,

 

[Luce NDs]

Well, as I read it, it says you're supposed to kill a false prophet. One more reason to not go slapping the label on someone willy-nilly.

It does support hostilities and violence thought so the story of violence can go on haunting people that believe nothing ...

At least nothing is determinate and can't change!

 

[Luce NDs]

That doesn't sound very loving.....I wonder why they sometimes killed true prophets too?

They were known as sooth Sayers and it sooths the violent brutes to see some hostilities carried out ... and complain that somebody isn't looking after the brutes by arming them ...

 

[revjohn]

I believe Adam was created before day 6

Based on the creation account in Genesis 2 that is a logical conclusion. That said I do not know that it is internally coherent with the Genesis 2 creation account since the Genesis 2 creation account does not divide creation into day by day progress reports. For a day by day understanding we have to turn to the Genesis 1 creation account and if we grant the Genesis 1 creation account priority to divide the Genesis 2 creation account into days then we are obligated to defer to the Genesis 1 creation account and when it places the creation of humanity.

The only way that we can allow the Genesis 2 creation account to hold priority is to dispense with the days of creation altogether. Then the most we can say is that Adam was created from dry earth before there was any green plant.

What this shows is that the days of creation are only important in the context of the Genesis 1 creation account and are quite unimportant in the Genesis 2 creation account.

I have said, repeatedly that the point of the stories is to tell who is responsible for Creation. Does anyone want to argue that not to be the case?

Theologies can be built from either the Geneis 1 or Genesis 2 creation accounts. They are going to need to be attentive to the question of who if they are going to be of any use.

and was the first Angelic creation

This could be argued to be true in a very limited and technical sense. "Angel" is a word we get from the original languages when a better translation is often "messenger." The specialized sense of "angel" as a class of spiritual being typically identifies the class in the text when we are dealing with spiritual beings. Clues such as cherub or seraph and their plurals (cherubim and seraphim) are giveaways in the Hebrew texts in the Greek we often see "Angel of the Lord" which differentiates from a human messenger.

There is nothing in the text to support the idea that Adam was "the first Angelic creation" in either the Genesis 1 or Genesis 2 creation accounts.

At most, the Genesis 2 creation account, in telling of Adam's creation declares that his body is of dust and it is not animated until the breath/Spirit/wind of God enters into it. This leads to Adam being dust of the earth animated by the breath/Spirit/wind of God. He, like Jesus, participates in two natures. Unlike Jesus his participation is only by the grace of God and not of his own will or power.

and is the embodiment of the Word becoming flesh and is like Yeshua in flesh after

resurrection.

No. That goes to far and has no support in the scriptures. Adam needs food, physical food, to survive. Christ in his resurrected body may eat but apparently does not need to eat. Apart from that we see the resurrection body perfom feats which are never attributed to Adam at all. Finally there is the distinction between the first and second Adam.

The first Adam (he of Genesis 2 fame) became a living body. The second Adam (Christ Jesus) became a life giving Spirit. Those are two different kinds of being. The first Adam is not alike the second Adam in this regard.

I believe Yeshua is born again/reincarnated Adam in the flesh but in Spirit is like Most High.

Which is fair. It has no actual support in the scriptures and is a position which Christianity (almost as a whole) rejects completely. You should be aware that you are probably advocating several classical heresies of Christian thought by making this statement. Which only becomes problematic if you insist that this opinion represents Christian thought.

I believe that Adam was "present" while all creation was established, except for the creation of the "woman" where he is present, but "in a deep sleep".

Also fair and also without support in the scriptures. Neither the Genesis 1 nor the Genesis 2 account define Adam as anything more than a "created" being. Adam is a creation and not the Creator. Probably not in heretical territory here but you have no scripture supporting the faith position that you have taken.

I believe Adam to be the first light bearer. Or what people refer to as lucifer meaning light bearer.

At the sake of being redundant. You are free to believe as you wish. Your beliefs do not find any grounding in the scriptures. I am hard pressed to say where these faith statements would be at home. I don't say that out of any desire to exercise power or authority over you. I do offer it out of concern for your well being, these beliefs will make it difficult for you to find a spiritual community and home which will be supportive of these beliefs of yours.

I believe day six that Adam made covenant with Most High and every form of creation as it was being created. Especially with mankind.

Same as above. You are free to believe this. The scriptures do not support this.

The Mankind created on day six were exactly like Adam in the sense before woman was separated from Adam.

See above.

Day 6 mankind were like Adam to where they had the image and likeness of both male and female in one body. How many that were created is up for debate I guess.

See above.

Adam was king of the earth and high priest to the heavens, until iniquity was found in him.

I expect that this is true, in a very limited sense. If we stick only with the Genesis 2 creation account Adam as the only man in the dawn of creation is given dominion over all the earth. The language of the text places Adam as a steward (a caretaker of somebody else's stuff) more than it does a king. Adam being set apart from the rest of creation would, even in the role of steward, exercise kingly authority. There is a sense in which the texts show God coming to Adam before coming to Eve which could be used to support the notion that Adam speaks to God on Eve's behalf. The text does not indicate that this is a routine state of affairs, indeed after their casting out there is very little conversation recorded between God and Adam.

I would be interested in learning where you think these beliefs you have shared come from. I cannot see anywhere in the scriptures where such understandings are even possible. Still, open minded discussion at the very least invites you to make your argument so that it can be considered.

If you are up to that kind of conversation I would be happy to participate.

 

[revjohn]

Well, as I read it, it says you're supposed to kill a false prophet. One more reason to not go slapping the label on someone willy-nilly.

Indeed.

Scripture directs the faithful to kill false prophets.

Hard to see the labelling of anyone as a false prophet as anything other than coercive. It certainly doesn't fit the bill of persuasive.

 

[airclean33]

I would like to hear your answer......

I am sorry waterfall. But until John post his Idea what it is . I will not.

 

[airclean33]

Jae said:
Well, as I read it, it says you're supposed to kill a false prophet. One more reason to not go slapping the label on someone willy-nilly.
Click to expand...
Indeed. John--post--..............

Scripture directs the faithful to kill false prophets.

--Airclean----Post--...........
No John here I believe" --Both you and Jae are WRONG.
Please show me were you get this from The New Testament."

 

[airclean33]

There Waterfall , you now have my answer ", if you can find it said in the New Testament" we should kill a False prophets . Please let me know. airclean33-Gord.

 

[revjohn]

No John here I believe" --Both you and Jae are WRONG.

Believe what you wish.

I asked what the scriptures teach us to do with false prophets. You refused to answer. You said you would answer after I did and I affirmed Jae's answer.

8 you must not yield to or heed any such persons. Show them no pity or compassion and do not shield them. 9 But you shall surely kill them; your own hand shall be first against them to execute them, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10 Stone them to death for trying to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.

Is scripture.

Are you going to tell me that this passage is not scripture? That it is not God-breathed and useful for instruction?

Please show me were you get this from The New Testament."

Only the New Testament is scripture now?

Are you seriously trying to say that when you accused Neo of being a false prophet you were hoping he wouldn't stumble across this passage and feel threatened in any way?

Are you trying to tell me that you used the term false prophet and this particular scripture never reminded itself to you?

I find that hard to believe.

To be fair though, maybe you only had 2 Peter 2: 1 in mind

But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive opinions. They will even deny the Master who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.

Which keeps you from having to get blood on your hands but still allows you to revel in Neo bringing destruction upon himself.

Sweet.

Looks like you found a way to have your cake and eat it too!

 

[airclean33]

I believe Adam was created before day 6 and was the first
Angelic creation and is the embodiment of the Word becoming flesh and is like Yeshua in flesh after resurrection.
I believe Yeshua is born again/reincarnated Adam in the flesh but in Spirit is like Most High.
I believe that Adam was "present" while all creation was established, except for the creation of the "woman" where he is present, but "in a deep sleep".
I believe Adam to be the first light bearer. Or what people refer to as lucifer meaning light bearer.

--Airclean--post--
Wow Bolt" up to your last line I was right with you. You see bolt until He took from the tree He was for bidden not to. He had no sin". In a way you are right . Adam did belong to Lucifer, in the became a sinner. He disobeyed GOD The Father.

Bolt --post-.................
I believe day six that Adam made covenant with Most High and every form of creation as it was being created. Especially with mankind.
The Mankind created on day six were exactly like Adam in the sense before woman was separated from Adam.

--Airclean-post........
If this is what you believe BOLT these our your thoughts. I have another Bolt. I agree Adam came from heaven , Mankind in those days did not". Because of Adams sin, Adam though had other children who were of His line. A body an yet of GOD" inside. If you look up to Noah;s time. Then you will see all his family can fallow there ,Gene hood, Back to Adam, except for one wifes of a son". All others were Drowned.

--Bolt-post-.............
Day 6 mankind were like Adam to where they had the image and likeness of both male and female in one body. How many that were created is up for debate I guess.

--Airclean--post--......
Here Brother I think you may be getting things mixed up some.
GOD Made -Man and Female in His Inage. Some do believe GOD is Female and Male. I do not. We are Told GOD is Father . But I will say GOD can be anything He wants.

--Golt--post-................
Adam was king of the earth and high priest to the heavens, until iniquity was found in him.

Cheers

Airclean-Post-.............
Yes Bolt I also agree to this. May The living GOD always be with you. airclean33-Gord.

 

[Bolt_upright]

Based on the creation account in Genesis 2 that is a logical conclusion. That said I do not know that it is internally coherent with the Genesis 2 creation account since the Genesis 2 creation account does not divide creation into day by day progress reports. For a day by day understanding we have to turn to the Genesis 1 creation account and if we grant the Genesis 1 creation account priority to divide the Genesis 2 creation account into days then we are obligated to defer to the Genesis 1 creation account and when it places the creation of humanity.

The only way that we can allow the Genesis 2 creation account to hold priority is to dispense with the days of creation altogether. Then the most we can say is that Adam was created from dry earth before there was any green plant.

What this shows is that the days of creation are only important in the context of the Genesis 1 creation account and are quite unimportant in the Genesis 2 creation account.

I have said, repeatedly that the point of the stories is to tell who is responsible for Creation. Does anyone want to argue that not to be the case?

Theologies can be built from either the Geneis 1 or Genesis 2 creation accounts. They are going to need to be attentive to the question of who if they are going to be of any use.



This could be argued to be true in a very limited and technical sense. "Angel" is a word we get from the original languages when a better translation is often "messenger." The specialized sense of "angel" as a class of spiritual being typically identifies the class in the text when we are dealing with spiritual beings. Clues such as cherub or seraph and their plurals (cherubim and seraphim) are giveaways in the Hebrew texts in the Greek we often see "Angel of the Lord" which differentiates from a human messenger.

There is nothing in the text to support the idea that Adam was "the first Angelic creation" in either the Genesis 1 or Genesis 2 creation accounts.

At most, the Genesis 2 creation account, in telling of Adam's creation declares that his body is of dust and it is not animated until the breath/Spirit/wind of God enters into it. This leads to Adam being dust of the earth animated by the breath/Spirit/wind of God. He, like Jesus, participates in two natures. Unlike Jesus his participation is only by the grace of God and not of his own will or power.


No. That goes to far and has no support in the scriptures. Adam needs food, physical food, to survive. Christ in his resurrected body may eat but apparently does not need to eat. Apart from that we see the resurrection body perfom feats which are never attributed to Adam at all. Finally there is the distinction between the first and second Adam.

The first Adam (he of Genesis 2 fame) became a living body. The second Adam (Christ Jesus) became a life giving Spirit. Those are two different kinds of being. The first Adam is not alike the second Adam in this regard.



Which is fair. It has no actual support in the scriptures and is a position which Christianity (almost as a whole) rejects completely. You should be aware that you are probably advocating several classical heresies of Christian thought by making this statement. Which only becomes problematic if you insist that this opinion represents Christian thought.



Also fair and also without support in the scriptures. Neither the Genesis 1 nor the Genesis 2 account define Adam as anything more than a "created" being. Adam is a creation and not the Creator. Probably not in heretical territory here but you have no scripture supporting the faith position that you have taken.



At the sake of being redundant. You are free to believe as you wish. Your beliefs do not find any grounding in the scriptures. I am hard pressed to say where these faith statements would be at home. I don't say that out of any desire to exercise power or authority over you. I do offer it out of concern for your well being, these beliefs will make it difficult for you to find a spiritual community and home which will be supportive of these beliefs of yours.



Same as above. You are free to believe this. The scriptures do not support this.



See above.



See above.



I expect that this is true, in a very limited sense. If we stick only with the Genesis 2 creation account Adam as the only man in the dawn of creation is given dominion over all the earth. The language of the text places Adam as a steward (a caretaker of somebody else's stuff) more than it does a king. Adam being set apart from the rest of creation would, even in the role of steward, exercise kingly authority. There is a sense in which the texts show God coming to Adam before coming to Eve which could be used to support the notion that Adam speaks to God on Eve's behalf. The text does not indicate that this is a routine state of affairs, indeed after their casting out there is very little conversation recorded between God and Adam.

I would be interested in learning where you think these beliefs you have shared come from. I cannot see anywhere in the scriptures where such understandings are even possible. Still, open minded discussion at the very least invites you to make your argument so that it can be considered.

If you are up to that kind of conversation I would be happy to participate.

Thanks for your patience John
I'l try the local library to see if I'll have it easier on the computer to reply in detail

I'l be honest That I do get my thoughts on doctrine exploring what can be called "gnostic" books. Only the book of Enoch, the Book of Jasher and the Gospel of Thomas.

Personally, I don't consider myself a christian anymore for the label represents a failed religion just like all the other religions that have taught only part truths. The label christian is just that. A label so we can fit in with the same lable on the building.
And Yeah, it's been a while since I belonged to a church.
I do go to a Jewish/Christian church from time to time but I don't call myself christian anymore.

I'll just call myself Roy Charles Boltz.

 

[revjohn]

Thanks for your patience John

It is a discussion forum not a race track. Conversation takes time. I'm prepared to invest.

I'l try the local library to see if I'll have it easier on the computer to reply in detail

I prefer my laptop to my phone so I understand.

I'l be honest That I do get my thoughts on doctrine exploring what can be called "gnostic" books. Only the book of Enoch, the Book of Jasher and the Gospel of Thomas.

That fills in some gaps. Thank you for sharing that much.

Personally, I don't consider myself a christian anymore for the label represents a failed religion just like all the other religions that have taught only part truths. The label christian is just that. A label so we can fit in with the same lable on the building.
And Yeah, it's been a while since I belonged to a church.
I do go to a Jewish/Christian church from time to time but I don't call myself christian anymore.

That is fair. I don't agree with you but our experiences don't have to be identical in order to have conversation.

I'll just call myself Roy Charles Boltz.[/QUOTE]

 

[airclean33]

Good Morning John.
Airclean--Your post-----
clean33 said:
No John here I believe" --Both you and Jae are WRONG.
Click to expand...


Believe what you wish.

I asked what the scriptures teach us to do with false prphets. You refused to answer. You said you would answer after I did and I affirmed Jae's answer.

--Airclean--post--........
In that case I have many other Questions, for you John.

--John --posts---
Deuteronomy 13: 8-10 said:
8 you must not yield to or heed any such persons. Show them no pity or compassion and do not shield them. 9 But you shall surely kill them; your own hand shall be first against them to execute them, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10 Stone them to death for trying to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.

Is scripture.

--Airclean--post--..............

So John as you believe in following the Laws of the Jews. You then believe we should Kill GAYS----WITCHS --AND-- __THOSE who do work on the Sabbath. This sounds kind of funny coming from you. I know John you are very smart , when it comes to the word. But John You have called me dumb in so many words. The only thing I got working for me John . Is The Infilling Of GODS HOLY SPIRIT. All Praise Is GODS. I know John donèt want us to kill Gays or Which's or those who work on the Sabbath. No more than He wants us to kill a false prophets any more than others . GOD can still save them and there Family's . But after all you have posted , that others read . Makes me sad, Again Neo I am sad, this was not meant to be . I though, must point out to my family, who and what is going on.



--John-post--..........
Are you going to tell me that this passage is not scripture? That it is not God-breathed and useful for instruction?

--Airclean-post.............
--No John I am not , I give you another, to point this out, to YOU. Let Him who is without sin , through the first rock. Then He said, to the women . I do NOT Judge YOU ,Go an sin no more. This is The GOD, I follow.

airclean33 said:
Please show me were you get this from The New Testament."
--John --Post--..............
Only the New Testament is scripture now?

---Airclean--post--.......

--No John as I explained , I am a Born again Christian John. My orders come from The Living GOD. Not a Board , that tells me what I can say. Was it not your choice to be a Minister"""""". I try and Liston To My GOD. No matter what any one ,where to say . You believe what the old testament, is telling you to do, then do it. I will come see you in Jail.

--John--post--.............
Are you seriously trying to say that when you accused Neo of being a false prophet you were hoping he wouldn't stumble across this passage and feel threatened in any way?

Are you trying to tell me that you used the term false prophet and this particular scripture never reminded itself to you?

--Airclean--post-.............

I find that hard to believe.

To be fair though, maybe you only had 2 Peter 2: 1 in mind

2 Peter 2: 1 said:
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive opinions. They will even deny the Master who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.


--Airclean--post --If you wish you explain this to Neo . He is welcome to come, an ask me. I would be GLAD to explain Christ to Him , an the way to be saved , Not Just Him But His Hole Family. My GOD said He LOVED The Whole World , I believe He really don't want to through anyone into the Lake of Fire.

--John--Post-......
Which keeps you from having to get blood on your hands but still allows you to revel in Neo bringing destruction upon himself.

Sweet.

Looks like you found a way to have your cake and eat it too!

Grace and peace to you.

--Airclean-post-................
-John why world you believe by any word of GOD: , I would have blood on my hands, Neo and you and me Chose how we believe , and what. I do think you make a point here ,I would not have thought of . If you had not posted this . I believe your posts have hurt Neo ,Much more than any of mine. May GOD Be With You.--airclean33-GORD.

 

[Bolt_upright]

Airclean-Post-.............
Yes Bolt I also agree to this. May The living GOD always be with you. airclean33-Gord.

Hi airclean33

I look at the Angelic creation as mankind before the fall.
Where they were flesh and bone yet no blood. A different glorified type of creation separate from the other creation/flesh.

 

[Bolt_upright]

The only thing that is different from Adam and day 6 creation of mankind is that Adam was the first to be created before day 6.
They were the same image and likeness "before" Adam had Woman taken out of his body to form her body. According to how I see it anyways.

 

[revjohn]

In that case I have many other Questions, for you John.

Great you won't answer until I answer. I answer and you think you get to ask more questions.

Not really good at this conversation thing are you?

So John as you believe in following the Laws of the Jews.

Actually I don't and rather than run all over trying to find a way to be critical of me why don't we stay on the topic of you calling Neo a false prophet and what you need to do because of that.

No John I am not , I give you another, to point this out, to YOU. Let Him who is without sin , through the first rock. Then He said, to the women . I do NOT Judge YOU ,Go an sin no more. This is The GOD, I follow.

Which is fine and good.

You calling Neo a false prophet is you judging him and look, I found a passage from the New Testament that claims false prophets bring destruction down upon themselves. You don't have to kill Neo. You get to condemn him. It must make you very happy. Like I said, you get your cake and you get to eat it too

No John as I explained , I am a Born again Christian John.

Yes. So you say. Repeatedly. We hear you repeat it over and over and over again. We don't see much of it in your communication.

My orders come from The Living GOD. Not a Board , that tells me what I can say.

I'm not told what I can or cannot say either. That doesn't mean I don't listen to advice on what I should or shouldn't say.

Was it not your choice to be a Minister

Not really. Never planned on being a minister, never wanted to be a minister. I had other ideas about what I wanted to do with my life and I pursued them. God, apparently had other plans and God persisted until I relented.

I try and Liston To My GOD.

You should try and listen harder. Particularly to where God instructs you to speak the truth in gentleness and with compassion.

No matter what

any one ,where to say .

Believe me we see that. Blackbelt1961 tries to get you to think about what you are saying. You say he is attacking you. You say you try to listen to God but you don't seem to think that God can speak to you through others.

You believe what the old testament, is telling you to do, then do it. I will come see you in Jail.

You are missing the point.

Why do you think I won't call Neo a false prophet? Why do you think that I refuse to do that? Have you been listening. Do you comprehend what I have been typing.

Do you think that the Deuteronomy passage and the 2 Peter passage qualify as gentle or compassionate? Do you think that if you call Neo a false prophet you can somehow scare the hell out of him?

Is God instructing you to threaten Neo with death and destruction instead of reaching out to him and having a conversation through which you might actually reach him and offer correction?

Or is that your own stiff-necked stubbornness at play.

He is welcome to come, an ask me.

Yes we could tell by your willingness to label him a false prophet just how willing you were to talk with him and explain things patiently and compassionately with him.

I do think you make a point here

,I would not have thought of . If you had not posted this . I believe your posts have hurt Neo ,Much more than any of mine.

That is a rather convenient belief to hold isn't it? You call him a false prophet and because I disagree with you I hurt him more than you. I suppose anything is possible. Even that which is improbable.

Suppose Neo decides to tell you that is not the case? Suppose he tells you that you have been more offensive to him than I have.

What would you do then?

I never called him a false prophet. I did point out two scriptures that talk about what should be done with them or, as in 2 Peter, what will ultimately happen to them.

You called him false prophet not I.

Several of us tried to correct you. Did you listen for a moment or even reconsider? Nope. None of us are born again enough to be listened to.

 

[airclean33]

The only thing that is different from Adam and day 6 creation of mankind is that Adam was the first to be created before day 6.
They were the same image and likeness "before" Adam had Woman taken out of his body to form her body. According to how I see it anyways.

airclean--post Hi Bolt--Yes Bolt but, He was taken to, Eden" .A place no one goes into , without Gods permission . That is of course except another angel. When Cain kills His brother , he is case out". Then we see others, who are not sons of GOD". Adam an his family were sons, of The Most High". The ANGELS are also called Sons, of GOD. The Book of Job 1:6.

 

[airclean33]

The only thing that is different from Adam and day 6 creation of mankind is that Adam was the first to be created before day 6.
They were the same image and likeness "before" Adam had Woman taken out of his body to form her body. According to how I see it anyway.

[/QUOTEAirclean-post-.......
Please note Bolt , that as GOD" was making Adam . He breath into him his own Breath."

 

[Bolt_upright]

What is all this talk of a false prophet?

I am a "self proclaimed" prophet. Things are going to start unfolding after April fools day 2018.
Any prophet who says that Yeshua returns at any cirtain day and hour is false already.