Was Adam part of the creation process?

[blackbelt1961]

"It is the Spirit that gives life. The flesh does not help. What I say to you is spirit and life" - John 6:63.

im a vegetarian, no flesh for me

 

[Luce NDs]

The flesh . From Dust you came to dust you shell return .

Shell ... the house of wrinkle!

Spirit and life are clearly Eire to get into ...

 

[Luce NDs]

@airclean33...

"Airclean--post--.......Wrong Jae Our Christ's Body was perfect ,it had no sin.Where are you going to learn?"

Where am I going to learn?! airclean, you yourself gave me the specific verses to look up!

Rocks do not learn well ... tis the people within ... stonewalled? Where, the devil, is Jack in the myth ... shoving things up ... and Jesus donned the robe on the temple roof ... after fiddling in the Shadow ... thus the expression ... roof-fiddlers ...

 

[revjohn]

I'm glad to hear you have found a nice place on the East coast and your grandson is about the same age as my first grandaughter!
What a blessing and favor from Most High!!!

I always marvel at the fact that a Province so very unlike the place of my birth and in which I spent the first half of my life in, feels more like home than home ever did.

And with respect to blessing. He most certainly is a great favour.



This is Quincey and I following his baptism at St. Anthony United Church. It was the first Church I ever served after ordination and the first place that the Church ever sent me to serve. We lived there for only 5 years and it rooted itself in the hearts of each member of our family. We try to get back at least once every year to touch base with folk and to "come home" so to speak.

Quincey is a unique name.

It is that. If you saw the list of all the possibilities our daughter contemplated you would likely be just as relieved as we were when that one the naming lottery.

My life is better for many reasons

I rejoice in every one of them.

but mostly I believe many of the things that I questioned and bothered me about some scriptures has been answered acceptiblly now but I'm Still learning so this helps with the liberating process.

Sounds like that could lead to many interesting conversations.

Thanks again for the warm welcome.

You are very welcome. Glad we kept your chair warm for your return.

 

[Luce NDs]

St Anthony ... the spirit behind the pseudonym of anthropomorphic backing into sea ... that pool behind yah? That's Marah ...

I too have trouble leaving the waters behind ... others can't leave the mountains and that sound of splashing waters ... when the winds come out down east one ears the swell ...


Mental complex baffles those searching a source of simony ... thus the counting ... for keeping a long track ... de termination of something that goes on?

 

[revjohn]

I was always at odds with the doctrine vs. scriptual referance in Genesis account of the creation of Adam vs mankind in day 6.

There is a lot of "theology" with respect to Creation that doesn't mesh easily with the texts upon which that theology rests.

The notion of Creation ex nihilo, for example is very difficult to rationalize with Genesis 1: 2. How, for example can there be wind and water before God creates them (or to be precise) where do the Creation accounts of Genesis 1 and 2 describe God creating either water or the wind? If one is being literal how can light exist before the Sun is created?

The Creation poems aren't designed to establish a firm chronology of events. At heart, they testify to God having created it all. When and how really aren't important from a chronology of facts. At most they are used to build the cosmological understanding of the importance of all things.

The Genesis 1 account which places the creation of humanity on the sixth day purposefully does so to establish humanity as God's crowning point of all creation, this is reflected in humanity alone being said to be created in the image and likeness of the Creator.

Translational differences about whether God gives humanity "dominion" or "stewarship" over all creation lead to different theological lenses which reinforce and explain much about how some humans interact with the rest of Creation.

The Genesis 2 account puts the creation of humanity earlier for a purpose. Possibly part of that purpose might be to knock some of the arrogance out of humanity as creature or, it may be to cement the dependence of humanity as creature on the benevolence of God as Creator.

Notice that in the initial Creation poem humanity does not appear until Creation is ready to support its needs. This reinforces the idea that God thought highly enough of humanity to have a world ready to support humanity's basic needs in place before humanity had need of them. The second Creation account brings humanity out of the dust before the rest of Creation is ready to support it. What will humanity eat without, at the very least, there being seed-bearing plants to eat? Does this explain children and their fascination with eating dirt? Or, does the existence of humanity prior to the possibility of there being bread mean that in humanity's earliest moments it's life was sustained by God and nothing else?

Does that call to mind the words of Jesus?

But he answered, “It is written, ‘One does not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”

or,

And becoming aware of it, Jesus said, “You of little faith, why are you talking about having no bread?

or,

But he said to them, “I have food to eat that you do not know about.”

What might we see in these passages if, by way of Creation poetry we, admit a time when human beings did not dine on other elements of Creation?

Placing of the Man in the garden after rest/sabbath and separating the woman from Adam after naming the animals.
I don't know about you, but it would seem the way it is written, that the timeline should be considered to how it is written in scripture.

Well yes, and no. Again the purpose of the accounts is not to establish a chronology of what comes first. The purpose of the accounts is primarily to establish the who of creation (God the Creator) and after that the relationship of every bit of creation to its Creator. In that the poems do not need to be seen as conflicting information so much as stories which augment and inform what we know about God as Creator and ourselves as God's creations.

The initial account builds in such a way that humanity becomes God's final touch in making Creation "very good." It shows the care that God took in creating a home which would support humanity and all of its varied needs. Humanity should want for nothing. The second account shows the same thing, from another perspective. We are dust, animated by the wind/breath/Spirit of God and initially all of our sustenance, all we needed to thrive and exist was God's very self. The account of Eve, at minimum demonstrates that God cares for the emotional well-being of humanity. God who was our very sustenance allows for humanity to find in itself, a help-mate that is not fundamentally different. God recognizes that it is not good for "man to be alone" and yet how can "man be alone" if God is present with man? Perhaps the genesis of Eve demonstrates that as important as God is to humanity without a human other humanity cannot experience wholeness or avoid being alone?

Hence the bit about a man leaving his mother and his father and cleaving to a woman.

What does that tell us about ourselves?

What does that tell us about the God in whose image we have been created?

The fact that Adam was created before every green thing on the earth should be enough to raise questions of the doctrine, one would think.

Well yes, and no.

It is not enough to challenge us in our Doctrine of who is the Creator. Both Genesis poems affirm that God is the Creator of all that is.

It is enough to challenge secondary elements of Creation Doctrines. Such as the chronology and order of events. God is no less the Creator if he creates man on the sixth day after plants or the third day before plants. Getting caught up in the individual brushstrokes of the narrative, when the narrative does not exist for the sake of individual brushstrokes detracts us from the big picture which the narrative intends to paint.

 

[Luce NDs]

Is getting caught-up in brush strikes comparable to the expression paresis?

This is psychological terms is close to seizure, or adulteration of a child by not allowing them to learn of the vast stuff that is out there. One early psychologist hinted that this was like religion, introspective psychology and voodoo-ism ... where as we should look out as well as in ... a dual-ite ... concluding there may be two lights as well as two Shadows !

This may be well illustrated in the book The Mind that Found Itself ... a grand discovery meaning that whoam'n with a hat should take it all off ... perhaps the beginnings of the Red Hat Society ... considering the hosts that would bloody well be against it as anything about learning about Bodleian conjunction (stories about cults)!

 

[airclean33]

Hi Bolt---Your post----

Bolt_upright said:
Placing of the Man in the garden after rest/sabbath and separating the woman from Adam after naming the animals.
I don't know about you, but it would seem the way it is written, that the timeline should be considered to how it is written in scripture.

--Airclean--post-.........
Who told you this?

 

[airclean33]

God created Adam on Day 6.

The Word who became flesh is Jesus who, while he is the Creator, was born on Earth about 4,000 years after the Creation.

-Airclean--post--.............
Hi Jae , You do understand there are two referents ,of a person being called Adam? The first Adam" , and the second Adam".

 

[Jaebius]

-Airclean--post--.............
Hi Jae , You do understand there are two referents ,of a person being called Adam? The first Adam" , and the second Adam".

"The Bible says, 'The first man, Adam, has become a living soul.' But the last Adam (Christ) is the life-giving spirit" - 1 Cor. 15:45.

 

[airclean33]

Hi Jae --Yes ---Or You could say , by the first Adam we got death".
By the second we receive Life".

 

[Luce NDs]

The second a' damn stated a question ... why did I do that ... and thus in Thessalonians God says question itall ... cuss me if you can't resolve it ... mankind was commanded not to know ... thus a host don't!

 

[Bolt_upright]

I always marvel at the fact that a Province so very unlike the place of my birth and in which I spent the first half of my life in, feels more like home than home ever did.

And with respect to blessing. He most certainly is a great favour.

View attachment 1279

This is Quincey and I following his baptism at St. Anthony United Church. It was the first Church I ever served after ordination and the first place that the Church ever sent me to serve. We lived there for only 5 years and it rooted itself in the hearts of each member of our family. We try to get back at least once every year to touch base with folk and to "come home" so to speak.



It is that. If you saw the list of all the possibilities our daughter contemplated you would likely be just as relieved as we were when that one the naming lottery.



I rejoice in every one of them.



Sounds like that could lead to many interesting conversations.



You are very welcome. Glad we kept your chair warm for your return.

I always marvel at the fact that a Province so very unlike the place of my birth and in which I spent the first half of my life in, feels more like home than home ever did.

And with respect to blessing. He most certainly is a great favour.

View attachment 1279

This is Quincey and I following his baptism at St. Anthony United Church. It was the first Church I ever served after ordination and the first place that the Church ever sent me to serve. We lived there for only 5 years and it rooted itself in the hearts of each member of our family. We try to get back at least once every year to touch base with folk and to "come home" so to speak.



It is that. If you saw the list of all the possibilities our daughter contemplated you would likely be just as relieved as we were when that one the naming lottery.



I rejoice in every one of them.

I'm Sorry it seems as I can't remember how to do the quote button trick anymore. LOL.

Sounds like that could lead to many interesting conversations.

I AGREE!



You are very welcome. Glad we kept your chair warm for your return.

I always marvel at the fact that a Province so very unlike the place of my birth and in which I spent the first half of my life in, feels more like home than home ever did.

And with respect to blessing. He most certainly is a great favour.

View attachment 1279

This is Quincey and I following his baptism at St. Anthony United Church. It was the first Church I ever served after ordination and the first place that the Church ever sent me to serve. We lived there for only 5 years and it rooted itself in the hearts of each member of our family. We try to get back at least once every year to touch base with folk and to "come home" so to speak.



It is that. If you saw the list of all the possibilities our daughter contemplated you would likely be just as relieved as we were when that one the naming lottery.



I rejoice in every one of them.



Sounds like that could lead to many interesting conversations.



You are very welcome. Glad we kept your chair warm for your return.

It looks as though things are very well for you. That is awesome! I don't remember how to posted pics right noe or I would of my grandaughter.

I also agree that going back to family is always a great time.

Cheers John
I'l
Do my best to respond to all your comments.

 

[Jaebius]

Hi Jae --Yes ---Or You could say , by the first Adam we got death".
By the second we receive Life".

I believe @Bolt_upright's OP concerned the first Adam. Do you feel otherwise airclean?

 

[Bolt_upright]

Hi Bolt---Your post----

Bolt_upright said:
Placing of the Man in the garden after rest/sabbath and separating the woman from Adam after naming the animals.
I don't know about you, but it would seem the way it is written, that the timeline should be considered to how it is written in scripture.

--Airclean--post-.........
Who told you this?

I'll ask you this airclean.
When you read scripture, who's voice do you hear when you read it even to yourself within the mind?

 

[Jaebius]

I'll ask you this airclean.
When you read scripture, who's voice do you hear when you read it even to yourself within the mind?

Just kidding.

 

[Bolt_upright]

I'll ask you this airclean.
When you read scripture, who's voice do you hear when you read it even to yourself within the mind?

Hi again
I guess to take anything past Gen.2:5 in chronological order can be problematic?
Cheers

 

[Bolt_upright]

I can't do decent debate with my phone or I could offer at least an explanation as to why I believe the way I do with John as he asks some, or offers relevant questioning and feedback.

 

[Jaebius]

Hi again
I guess to take anything past Gen.2:5 in chronological order can be problematic?
Cheers

No, I don't feel so.

 

[Bolt_upright]

Gen.1:26 and onward to Gen.1:318 explains the final seal in the process and establishes authority to mankind but not authority or dominion over the green plants/earth, the air, the water but all else to "fill and subdue" the earth.
All the animals at that time did not have to devour other flesh until the flesh became all corrupt after the fall of Adam.