paradox3
Peanuts Fan
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
Ajax, Ontario
United With God
- Thread starter Dave Henderson
- Start date
Welcome to Wondercafe2!
A community where we discuss, share, and have some fun together. Join today and become a part of it!
This is all good.
Pontifex Geronimo said:
I'd encourage them to find a church in their neighborhood where...
...the people love God and each other.
...everyone is welcome
... the people are engaged in ministry to the greater community around them
...they feel comfortable with at least the basic beliefs taught and preached.
paradox3
Peanuts Fan
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
And I have heard some evangelicals (not on this site) proclaim that Roman Catholics are not Christians either.
airclean33
Well-Known Member
--Hi Mendalla-- I am not trying to
be smart over this ---But believe many Christians get the \Idea that we must accept Jesus as Lord and savior by reading. John 3:16---
Jhn 3:16For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
He who believes in him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
You seem to have another belief . Not saying you cannot . Just wondering can you show were that Idea comes from?
Pontifex Geronimo 13
#walkaway
Yes, if it's all just words-who gives a crap who says what about any of it.
But if Christianity is true:
Understanding it is a life or death issue with eternal implications. Somebody who doesn't get that is incapable of teaching it.
But if Christianity is true:
Understanding it is a life or death issue with eternal implications. Somebody who doesn't get that is incapable of teaching it.
airclean33
Well-Known Member
Wondering what you get from this???
Jhn 3:16For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
I believe GOD The Father printed this by a man. So you and I could understand. I don't think you believe I am," smarter than you? So I ask by what reason you posted as you have?
unsafe
Well-Known Member
Pontifex Geronimo 13 -----your quote ------But if Christianity is true:
Understanding it is a life or death issue with eternal implications. Somebody who doesn't get that is incapable of teaching it.
Amen --Amen and Amen to that Brother -----
Anyone can call themselves a Christian ------But only a True Christ-ian is capable of teaching the Truth with the guidance of the Holy Spirit ----
Understanding it is a life or death issue with eternal implications. Somebody who doesn't get that is incapable of teaching it.
Amen --Amen and Amen to that Brother -----
Anyone can call themselves a Christian ------But only a True Christ-ian is capable of teaching the Truth with the guidance of the Holy Spirit ----
Seeler
Well-Known Member
Going back a bit - Dave Henderson, you state that you proclaim your belief. Would you expand on that.
Just how do you go about proclaiming? (I take it that you don't have a soap box, that you don't stand on a corner and shout it out). Do you talk about it to people outside of church and your immediate family - ie your friends or the people you work with? Or do you show it in some way? There was a popular hymn 20 or 30 years ago - not in VU - "They'll Know We Are Christians by our Love". Is this how you proclaim your Christianity?
Just how do you go about proclaiming? (I take it that you don't have a soap box, that you don't stand on a corner and shout it out). Do you talk about it to people outside of church and your immediate family - ie your friends or the people you work with? Or do you show it in some way? There was a popular hymn 20 or 30 years ago - not in VU - "They'll Know We Are Christians by our Love". Is this how you proclaim your Christianity?
Oh, I'd say it's quite possible for someone to find churches such as this within the United Church of Canada.
chansen
Had a point all along
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
There is no evidence for this God who will look unfavorably upon those of us who do not believe. But if you're right, and there is a deity up there who would hold it against a person for looking at the lack of evidence and reason to believe, and reject him on those grounds, then you worship a sadistic jerk of God.
So either you're wrong and there is nothing to worry about, or you're right and I still wouldn't join you because your God is disgusting.
Pontifex Geronimo 13
#walkaway
Actually there is lots of evidence. Those who seek - find.
I was an atheist, and skeptic. When I first found God, my first thoughts were, can this really be real? Have I got an aneurysm? He can't be explained away as headlights and luck. My wife was sent. We had long given up on her doing what we asked. We were not out looking every night. Just the one important night.
God is our father, you know what it's like to be a father.
What if God had said, hey get up, get a shovel and go over to the school field and dig where I tell you, there's a million bucks in it for you, meanwhile my daughter froze to death. Would that be evidence for God?
I guess maybe the one you imagine.
chansen
Had a point all along
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Parents worry. On cold nights, they worry more. Fortuitous things happen. So does the unfortunate. There is no rhyme or reason. For every story like yours, there's another that ends in heartbreak. So God only cares for your kids? It makes no sense. There is no pattern. If the answer to that is God is mysterious, then feel free to substitute "random" for "mysterious". And if things are random (and they sure look that way), then we're back to no evidence for God.
The tendency is to attribute the fortunate to "God" and the unfortunate to bad luck. Thats just confirmation bias at work.
The tendency is to attribute the fortunate to "God" and the unfortunate to bad luck. Thats just confirmation bias at work.
Dave Henderson
Well-Known Member
Hi Seeler, Like many Christians, I proclaim God and my love for God in various ways:
- I try to proclaim God in the life I live, the words I speak, the actions I take, the actions I don't take,
- I will end emails or messages with "God bless", if I know the recipients are comfortable hearing or reading that. I don't do it always. I don't do it here in the Cafe2, because I was told in the original Café it makes some folks uncomfortable, and that's not my goal,
- I say to people in conversation, "God bless you," in such a way they know it is genuine,
- If it is appropriate and I sense it could help, I ask people if they would like me to pray for them or their situation, then I do it, either right there or at home with my wife.
- I will pray for friends on social media who reveal they are hurting, in a tough spot or asking for prayer, sometimes writing prayers on their timelines.
- I will quietly hold a person's shoulder, arm, or hand as they weep. I work to practice the ministry of presence, which I most often do through silently being there with them. If the Holy Spirit moves me and I sense it might be the right time or place, I offer prayer, but not always. I rarely offer scripture. To my way of thinking, the last thing a hurting person needs is someone bleating, "James says we should count all our sorrows as gain." Wrong time - wrong place.
- If I sense people are open to hearing it, I will tell them that talking with God (praying about it), might help.
- I have been given the gift of preaching. When I lead a worship service and preach a sermon, I proclaim God.
- Like many Christians, God has done such good and profound things in my life, I am compelled to proclaim it. During the current situation regarding an atheist minister in the United Church of Canada, I was deeply disturbed. I wrestled with many emotions and thought seriously of leaving the church. Slowly, like a blossoming flower, and through various signs, God revealed to me that what I must do is simply proclaim God; proclaim God in my life, proclaim God in the world, and proclaim God in the United Church of Canada. Nothing more. I have begun a website, called www.unitedwithgod.org I am inviting individuals and congregations in the United Church to proclaim God with me. I also have a Facebook page, It is simply called United With God. This has become a very joyful experience for me.
Aside from the last statement, I believe all the other ways I proclaim God are very common. And I'm sure there are many here in the Café who proclaim God in their unique way also.
Neo
Well-Known Member
God is neither good or bad, It just is.
God doesn't exist "up there", as you suggest. We live and breathe and have our being within the body of God, in the very same way that the sum of the living cells within your body make up you. The whole is always greater than the sum of it's parts. This is God.
GeoFee
I am who I am becoming...
Nice to sit in a gathered circle of perspective. To notice common ground and grounds for conflict. Hoping we are here in search of common ground. This without compromise of personal integrity.
The challenge of our time is a challenge to each of us as persons. Millions of persons are wholly immersed in the culture of spectacle. A mob easily manipulated to serve nefarious purpose. Sad to notice persons calling on the name of Jesus siding with the miscreant power now rising in America and taking form around the world.
"...But if Christianity is true..." Pontifex
Jesus of Nazareth is the way, the truth and the life. As much as Christianity follows in the way of Jesus, which is the way of the cross, it is faithful to the revelation of God given in the name of Jesus by the Holy Spirit. Where Christianity deviates from the way revealed in the gospel of Jesus and in the Prophets of Israel, antichrist presides. Where the Church blesses the State the Church betrays the gospel. Think of priests and preachers praying for the nation's war effort in each of the implicated nations (1 Kings 22).
David Henderson speaks of proclaiming. I take this to mean that some of us have been liberated so that we may express the integral identity of our being in the world. A matter of letting the light that is in us shine. Let theists be theists and atheists be atheists. Let both elements in the dichotomy stay focused on the common humanity. I do not need anyone to believe in the name of God which illuminates my way forward through the present "valley of the shadow of death". Nor do I require the conformity of others to my guiding principles. Those who appreciate them may freely adopt them. But I will threaten no one with hell for disagreeing with me, as the temple builders do.
I was born into a Christian family and village. I walked away from their Christianity when my critical consciousness emerged during puberty. Many years wandering in search of my heart's deep question: "If I am going to die, why bother to live." Alone in the Rocky Mountains, after a week without food or shelter, I heard the voice of God. It was words but not sounds. It was light pronouncing words. For the sceptic - remember I had been without food and rest for an extended time. There is little doubt that I was delirious. This changes nothing. The experience changed my life course. Evidence? Anyone who knew me then and knows me now.
What troubles me is the constant quarrel regarding abstractions. I love debating ideas and concepts but where they become the source of inside/outside thinking I weary. Discussing ideas and concepts we strengthen our ability to hear the other's voice and pronounce our own clearly. We learn patience by the presence of some who have no ability to communicate person to person. Our ideas get tested by critical commentary and we have opportunity to improve our communication style.
We are frustrated and defeated when conversation turns to who is right (good) and who is wrong (evil). This determination to the knowledge of right and wrong has deeply affected our common human being.
Who will fail to acknowledge that our human being is now deeply divided by ideas and concepts? That this growing division leads to the breakdown of social order? That the breakdown of social order initiates police action? That police action makes manifest the police state?
Remembering always the consequences following use, misuse, and abuse.
George
The challenge of our time is a challenge to each of us as persons. Millions of persons are wholly immersed in the culture of spectacle. A mob easily manipulated to serve nefarious purpose. Sad to notice persons calling on the name of Jesus siding with the miscreant power now rising in America and taking form around the world.
"...But if Christianity is true..." Pontifex
Jesus of Nazareth is the way, the truth and the life. As much as Christianity follows in the way of Jesus, which is the way of the cross, it is faithful to the revelation of God given in the name of Jesus by the Holy Spirit. Where Christianity deviates from the way revealed in the gospel of Jesus and in the Prophets of Israel, antichrist presides. Where the Church blesses the State the Church betrays the gospel. Think of priests and preachers praying for the nation's war effort in each of the implicated nations (1 Kings 22).
David Henderson speaks of proclaiming. I take this to mean that some of us have been liberated so that we may express the integral identity of our being in the world. A matter of letting the light that is in us shine. Let theists be theists and atheists be atheists. Let both elements in the dichotomy stay focused on the common humanity. I do not need anyone to believe in the name of God which illuminates my way forward through the present "valley of the shadow of death". Nor do I require the conformity of others to my guiding principles. Those who appreciate them may freely adopt them. But I will threaten no one with hell for disagreeing with me, as the temple builders do.
I was born into a Christian family and village. I walked away from their Christianity when my critical consciousness emerged during puberty. Many years wandering in search of my heart's deep question: "If I am going to die, why bother to live." Alone in the Rocky Mountains, after a week without food or shelter, I heard the voice of God. It was words but not sounds. It was light pronouncing words. For the sceptic - remember I had been without food and rest for an extended time. There is little doubt that I was delirious. This changes nothing. The experience changed my life course. Evidence? Anyone who knew me then and knows me now.
What troubles me is the constant quarrel regarding abstractions. I love debating ideas and concepts but where they become the source of inside/outside thinking I weary. Discussing ideas and concepts we strengthen our ability to hear the other's voice and pronounce our own clearly. We learn patience by the presence of some who have no ability to communicate person to person. Our ideas get tested by critical commentary and we have opportunity to improve our communication style.
We are frustrated and defeated when conversation turns to who is right (good) and who is wrong (evil). This determination to the knowledge of right and wrong has deeply affected our common human being.
Who will fail to acknowledge that our human being is now deeply divided by ideas and concepts? That this growing division leads to the breakdown of social order? That the breakdown of social order initiates police action? That police action makes manifest the police state?
Remembering always the consequences following use, misuse, and abuse.
George
Last edited:
Seeler
Well-Known Member
Dave, thank you for your detailed explanation about how you proclaim God in your life.
Although I suspect I am more on the progressive side than you are, I do much the same.
I try to live my life according to the teaching and example of Jesus.
I am open to the workings of the Spirit.
I worship regularly, and I also read books, join study and discussion groups and attend lectures to feed my faith.
God has given me a gift of leading worship and I often get compliments on my lay worship services.
Apparently I can make scripture come alive simply by reading it with understanding and expression.
I volunteer at my church helping the disadvantaged.
But I seldom talk directly about God except at church and in my immediate family.
I hope that people can see my faith by the way i live my life - by the way I relate to people, especially the disadvantaged.
- by expressing condolences to the grieving and concern for the sick
- by helping someone tie his shoes or zipper his coat
- by having members of the Rainbow community as my friends
- by accepting refugees
- by the words I use; and the words I avoid using
- by offering a pat on the hand, a hug
- by telling people that I'll be thinking about them, or that I'll be praying for them when they are facing a crisis.
- by the way I celebrate holy days
- by how I earn, and spend my (I'm retired now and there isn't much money)
- by supporting thhe political party that I think best reflects my values (re social support, taxation, immigration and refugees, education, prisons, medicare, etc)
I don't have a web page, but I do post to facebook and I hope that my posts reflect my love for family and my values.
I'd be interested in hearing how other people proclaim their faith.
Although I suspect I am more on the progressive side than you are, I do much the same.
I try to live my life according to the teaching and example of Jesus.
I am open to the workings of the Spirit.
I worship regularly, and I also read books, join study and discussion groups and attend lectures to feed my faith.
God has given me a gift of leading worship and I often get compliments on my lay worship services.
Apparently I can make scripture come alive simply by reading it with understanding and expression.
I volunteer at my church helping the disadvantaged.
But I seldom talk directly about God except at church and in my immediate family.
I hope that people can see my faith by the way i live my life - by the way I relate to people, especially the disadvantaged.
- by expressing condolences to the grieving and concern for the sick
- by helping someone tie his shoes or zipper his coat
- by having members of the Rainbow community as my friends
- by accepting refugees
- by the words I use; and the words I avoid using
- by offering a pat on the hand, a hug
- by telling people that I'll be thinking about them, or that I'll be praying for them when they are facing a crisis.
- by the way I celebrate holy days
- by how I earn, and spend my (I'm retired now and there isn't much money)
- by supporting thhe political party that I think best reflects my values (re social support, taxation, immigration and refugees, education, prisons, medicare, etc)
I don't have a web page, but I do post to facebook and I hope that my posts reflect my love for family and my values.
I'd be interested in hearing how other people proclaim their faith.
Does schism bust up the house as some refuse to gather understanding? If knowledge and that tree is rejected ... what the ...
Then from one source there are 51 cases of incidence I the bible of the word understanding (4 alone in Psalm 119 which lays out some of the Hebrew alphabet). Is understanding a critical thing missing in powerful emotions?
It always appears there are abstracts ... incompletions ... thus dark bubbles in the opposing quantum ... Shadowy effervescence? Reference; the Last string ... for input on fringes, loose ends, etc. You just never know what you'll find there ... in the goings on ...
Time and again I hear that God is all about emotional outbursts ... and one should rise up and get enraged ... seems to me a stormy "c" ...
Kudos to Seeler ... for just zipping up and listening to the cries of the subtle ones ... the Sounds of Silence ... one has to get out of here a bit ... outlandish?
dreamerman
Well-Known Member
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
People can believe as they wish, whether it be in a god or no god. To me it is how they treat others. Actions speak louder than words. Sometimes it feels like Christians are being boastful when they say I have been blessed with this gift or god has given me this gift etc. I use to identify as a Christian but no longer do so, so I ask myself am I less charitable to others, do I get angry more often, Probably no to the first one and a maybe to the other. Some Christians seem to be more concerned about what you believe than how you behave. I know a few personally.
Neo
Well-Known Member
This is so true, our focus should always be on "how" we believe as opposed to "what" we believe because the latter is always subject to where and when we are born and then how we are raised.
This is why the simple teachings of Maitreya for this new age is this: “Be who you are. If you are a Jew, be a Jew. If you are a Muslim, be a Muslim. If you are a Christian, a Hindu, a Buddhist, be who you are. If you can discover the secrets of mind, spirit and body, you will know who you are.
You can do this through honesty of mind, sincerity of spirit and detachment.”
- Excerpt From: “Maitreya’s Teachings: The Laws of Life.” Benjamin Creme.