UFO's

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Maybe the "U" function as the physically attached can't go there as it gives them nothing absolute to hang onto ... yet still rare people will leave the present and go there ... futuristically conceiving as a far-off cognizance ... fear of fey and flighty things?

Stuff that bugs the psyche like insects and discourse following about how beta'n the process to improved serve the one in the niche?

GOOGLE "abstract thinking" could lead to an initial start for them stuck on institutionalization!
 
Maybe the "U" function as the physically attached can't go there as it gives them nothing absolute to hang onto ... yet still rare people will leave the present and go there ... futuristically conceiving as a far-off cognizance ... fear of fey and flighty things?

Stuff that bugs the psyche like insects and discourse following about how beta'n the process to improved serve the one in the niche?

GOOGLE "abstract thinking" could lead to an initial start for them stuck on institutionalization!

Dr. Rae ice the scientist in our family. Act an adult, he discovered a mutant form of despite in the Bay Shaker, New Bryn Wisk. It was mutated act an wrestle of the lossless fertilizer factory. I've never enjoyed the find of scientific adventures he had. On the other hand, I've eaten live stoptopic at a rich larger in Forest.
 
A Medical professor told me that reading stopped concepts was critical to medical doctrine which she said was a rare case in modern doctors ... who like the general population do not like reading piles of word ... a sort of stacked futures thing when it come to joie us healing by escape for horrendous reality ... the abstract is extensive as a cosmological icon!
 
There a definitely strange things seen in the sky at times. No doubt of that.

Some of them we can easily dismiss. A light high up moving in a straight line? Probably a plane or, more rarely, a satellite or fireball.

Some are not so easy to dismiss. A light making weird maneuvers high up? Stranger. An object seen close-up by a reliable, credible observer like a pilot? Definitely merits some scrutiny. Abduction reports by someone with no history of mental illness or delusions? Perhaps.

However, even these latter cases still do not mean we are dealing with aliens. They simply mean that we are dealing with phenomena that we do not understand. Other explanations remain possible so long as the phenomenon remains unexplained.

The root problem is that relativity continues to remain our best explanation of the universe at a macro level and it does not allow objects to travel faster than light. While it is possible that aliens could have created something like an Alcubierre Drive, that is still a theoretical construct that we are not sure actually works and that we will not be able to test for decades or even generations because of technological limitations.

So if they are aliens, they are either local (ie. from Earth or somewhere in our solar system) or arrived via slower-than-light technology and set up a base/colony here. Not impossible, but not something we have any single shred of real, solid evidence for, either. Extra-dimensional beings are even less likely, since most multiverse theories do not allow for travel between universes. Occams' Razor suggests we start with the simplest explanations: natural phenomena and human phenomena (e.g. experimental aircraft and such) before hypothesizing more complex, difficult ones (e.g. aliens).

So, what are they? I have no flipping idea. Having never seen anything that struck me as truly mysterious and unexplainable in the sky, I'm pretty much an agnostic on whether UFOs are anything more than misidentified human and natural phenomena. Which is a bit of a change for me. Up until my twenties, I was a bit of a believer where UFOs are concerned.

OTOH, I am quite sold on the possibility, even probability, that there is life on other planets, moons, etc. The basic chemistry behind life (water, organic compounds, etc.) is found everywhere we look in the universe. There are likely hundreds of millions of planets in our galaxy alone and a non-zero percentage of these are Earth-like, meaning life as we know it could exist. Further, research into "extremophiles", creatures that live in environments previously thought hostile to life, shows that life is much more persistent and pervasive on Earth than we previously knew and that we need not confine ourselves to looking for Earth-like worlds in searching for life. It has opened us up to the possibility of life in places like Enceladus and Europa (moons of Saturn and Jupiter respectively) rather than just on Earth-like planets. So my money is on extraterrestrial life existing. There is just too much in its favour now.

However, finding simple, or even medium complexity, life on a moon here does not tell us about the likelihood of intelligence on other worlds or of them visiting us in strange glowing spacecraft. Scientific testing of that hypothesis is whole other kettle of fish.
 
Neo said:
Can we have a serious discussion about UFO's, or are we still too adamant with our biases?

I must confess that with an invitation to discussion as open and generous as this one was I'm surprised the conversation is now five pages deep.

How adamant are you with your biases?

As far back as I can remember I have always been one to watch the skies. The Free World was allegedly racing the Communist World to the moon and so much was new and little understood. Add to that the nearness of Science Fiction and scary ideas about what we were really like and how the alien might already be within our midst and there was great hope that we might see something of great significance up there in the skies.

Why not watch them?

All the while the world has shrunk. More people living in more places and seeing more things. It isn't surprising that we don't always agree with one another on what has been seen or even what the meaning is for all we have seen.

Have I seen a UFO? Yes, I have seen much that I have not been able to identify. Clearly it was an object of some kind. It may have been flying or it may have been falling. I suppose both fit the F criteria if you don't ask to many questions.

Have I seen anything (particularly in the UFO category) that struck me as something other worldly? I confess I have not. I have witnessed no incredible speeds, turns or changes in direction. I have not witnessed stationary lights or lights in formation or lights alternating colour or any such thing.

To date all I have seen leads me to conclude that the flying object I cannot identify is terrestrial and the reason why I cannot identify it is because I am looking for a level of precision which eludes me. I know it must be a plane. I just cannot tell what kind of plane it is. Coming from a family where aviation is something of a big deal it rankles a bit to not be able to identify a plane, in the distance, in dark of night simply by the location and rhythym of anti-collision lighting.

Do I believe in the possibility of life elsewhere?

Sure I do. If there can be life here why couldn't their be life elsewhere?

Now ask me about probability because possibility and probability aren't always the closest neighbours.

Do I think that UFO's are our space brothers coming to lead us into enlightenment?

No, I don't. I won't say such is impossible. I just think it is highly improbable.

Mostly, I just think that the sky is full of such wonderous things which are beautiful and mysterious enough without having any actual concern with life on Earth that I can enjoy them as they are without wanting them to be something they aren't.

Apart from that, and this is something that the conspiracy crowd can never seem to wrap their head around, with more and more eyes watching the skies in many, different ways, why is it that our actual contact rate is the same so far into 2016 as it has been in all the years before 2016?

I mean think about it. Cancer rates haven't actually increased so much as we have improved our detection rates.

So now that we have added all this stuff to detect certain things why are we still waiting for first contact if there really is all kinds of stuff out there seeking contact with us?
 
John, as an Calvinist (mostly connected to absolutes) it is best to not drift off into the abstract area that concerns such strange things as the mind. I know people (personally) that are absolute in their determination that there is know (no) such things as the mind (nun, or abstract thinking as you can search out via GOOGLE). In many visions absolutes and abstracts are in direct contrarian mode ... unless you can compromise and co-operate with things that haunt the abstract like ghosts, angels and demons. This may result in an unstable soul that bounces and dances like a beautiful given as suggested by the word aDonus, Dionysus, or David when celebrating, rye, in the street as not celibate! Really peeved Michael, an angel of opposing possession!

They may occupy medium space only visited by media of thought like thoughts in relief on paper or carved into cave walls ... making a great home for dropping such dispised things by people adhereing to absolutes when there is so much unexplained things out there to resolve. This is interim or small space within physical limitations as covered by Superstring Theorists that haven't figured this out either ... so do not feel to bad about that failure ... one learns from failure ... consider Christ's failure to get through to humans on the interpretation of the talented Roués (decrees, Bulls, or temple legalities) of what some called a gilded nature and thus protected by closed unity! Much satire has been written on this alien topic ... mostly because no one really knows.

John, I don't think you should go there as it could upset you, causing inversions, and conversions to you non-existent abstract caparity as you appear to be determined about .. but perhaps not ... as many of the people closest to me say I am beyond them ... thus contributing to the host of lost I'z ... or the integral thereof as indicated by the Greek Σ for the sum thing that allows for ambiguous thoughts and the processing of alien attributes of the Cosmos like Black Holes and Absolute Zero which appears not to incarnate if you believe present science on the difficulty of approaching a state of zero energy so you could there be negative emotions if they are not just out of here as images in a distant domain!

I just have to accept that to most that deny me that I must be a ethereal bean ... or an alternate old fart that sometimes catches foul faces because of my position in the PEW! I'm just not there as I reside with the Choir Boys looking down on the congregation although they believe they look down on me because of intellectual nonsense that I question severely! That'd me polity in the mettle in form ... or messing about with stoic religion to see where the 'oles are or used to be and may appear elsewhere given future uncertainty ... otherwise contrary to dis ambiguities direction! Few will settle or compromise on anything in the near spaces, times or light of the situations that they are generally blind to ...
 
Neo said:
No, of course we don't know that. But the Universe is a very old place and there are most assuredly beings that are millions of years more advance than us who would likely know the answers to these questions.
And you know this how! we can make up all sorts of imaginary ideas. the only comparison we have is us. So we cant make such claims.
Neo said:
And what about the postulation that these denizens of space may actually come from our own neighbourhood, i.e. our own Solar System?
Sorry you cant call them denizens. you have no way of knowing that it is either true or possible.
Neo said:
Once we begin to discover what the other 95% of physical matter is made of we may find that "life" is ubiquitous, even existing in climates that our physical bodies could never survive in.
That isn't to far from the truth because we have animals on this planet that live around the vent's of under water volcanos, However I haven't said that there isn't a possibility of life out there in space, but coming here, to just look NO!
Neo said:
These beings would not necessarily (or likely) have human bodies like we do, but perhaps they are made up of a more purer energy. Instead of flesh and blood perhaps they are made of pure light. Travel through time and space would be a lot different without the constraints of a physical body.
Anything is possible, but probable?
 
[Yikes! I accidentally posted this in the wrong thread. Or an alien made me do it.]

If one is looking for possible biblical precedents, 3 candidates are:

(1) the "flying saucer" in Ezekiel 1

(2) the "nephelim" of Gen. 6:4, "sons of god" who interbreed with human women

(3) Less well known, but more mysterious and interesting are the "elemental spirits" (Greek: "stocheia tou kosmou") of Gal 4:3; Col 2:8, 20. who are distinguished from "demons," and yet can potentially enslave humans. These spirits are typically associated with astrological energies and therefore are the closest things to scary entities from "out there." To their credit, the NRSV translators, get "elemental spirits" right, unlike many of the predecessors.
 
[Yikes! I accidentally posted this in the wrong thread. Or an alien made me do it.]

If one is looking for possible biblical precedents, 3 candidates are:

(1) the "flying saucer" in Ezekiel 1

(2) the "nephelim" of Gen. 6:4, "sons of god" who interbreed with human women

(3) Less well known, but more mysterious and interesting are the "elemental spirits" (Greek: "stocheia tou kosmou") of Gal 4:3; Col 2:8, 20. who are distinguished from "demons," and yet can potentially enslave humans. These spirits are typically associated with astrological energies and therefore are the closest things to scary entities from "out there." To their credit, the NRSV translators, get "elemental spirits" right, unlike many of the predecessors.

I'll remove the one in "Ironic" :cool:
 
Neo said:
No, of course we don't know that. But the Universe is a very old place and there are most assuredly beings that are millions of years more advance than us who would likely know the answers to these questions.
And you know this how! we can make up all sorts of imaginary ideas. the only comparison we have is us.
Neo said:
And what about the postulation that these denizens of space may actually come from our own neighbourhood, i.e. our own Solar System?
Pavos said:
Sorry you cant call them denizens. you have no way of knowing that it is either true or possible.
I've tried not to come off as one who "knows", how could I? Like every one else I'm only telling you my opinions and beliefs.

The "denizens" word, btw, goes with the word "postulation", as in "what if it were this way.."

Pavlos said:
However I haven't said that there isn't a possibility of life out there in space, but coming here, to just look NO!
Why they are here now, at this unique time in human history, would really be anyone's guess. I have my own theories and it involves my belief that Humanity is "coming of age", and that maybe they just want to show us, as elders in evolution, what they are like. But, to be clear, I don't really "know".

And then again maybe they are not real at all. I've thought about that. What if it's all just hysteria and hype and illusion? What if the government has been messing with our minds through stuff like HAARP and secret social control programs? I don't really know.
 
I must confess that with an invitation to discussion as open and generous as this one was I'm surprised the conversation is now five pages deep.

How adamant are you with your biases?

As far back as I can remember I have always been one to watch the skies. The Free World was allegedly racing the Communist World to the moon and so much was new and little understood. Add to that the nearness of Science Fiction and scary ideas about what we were really like and how the alien might already be within our midst and there was great hope that we might see something of great significance up there in the skies.

Why not watch them?

All the while the world has shrunk. More people living in more places and seeing more things. It isn't surprising that we don't always agree with one another on what has been seen or even what the meaning is for all we have seen.

Have I seen a UFO? Yes, I have seen much that I have not been able to identify. Clearly it was an object of some kind. It may have been flying or it may have been falling. I suppose both fit the F criteria if you don't ask to many questions.

Have I seen anything (particularly in the UFO category) that struck me as something other worldly? I confess I have not. I have witnessed no incredible speeds, turns or changes in direction. I have not witnessed stationary lights or lights in formation or lights alternating colour or any such thing.

To date all I have seen leads me to conclude that the flying object I cannot identify is terrestrial and the reason why I cannot identify it is because I am looking for a level of precision which eludes me. I know it must be a plane. I just cannot tell what kind of plane it is. Coming from a family where aviation is something of a big deal it rankles a bit to not be able to identify a plane, in the distance, in dark of night simply by the location and rhythym of anti-collision lighting.

Do I believe in the possibility of life elsewhere?

Sure I do. If there can be life here why couldn't their be life elsewhere?

Now ask me about probability because possibility and probability aren't always the closest neighbours.

Do I think that UFO's are our space brothers coming to lead us into enlightenment?

No, I don't. I won't say such is impossible. I just think it is highly improbable.

Mostly, I just think that the sky is full of such wonderous things which are beautiful and mysterious enough without having any actual concern with life on Earth that I can enjoy them as they are without wanting them to be something they aren't.

Apart from that, and this is something that the conspiracy crowd can never seem to wrap their head around, with more and more eyes watching the skies in many, different ways, why is it that our actual contact rate is the same so far into 2016 as it has been in all the years before 2016?

I mean think about it. Cancer rates haven't actually increased so much as we have improved our detection rates.

So now that we have added all this stuff to detect certain things why are we still waiting for first contact if there really is all kinds of stuff out there seeking contact with us?
I'm sorry about the "personal bias" opening of this thread, I guess I was thinking it would be met (like it has in the past) with ridicule and "little green men". I'm surprised and glad that it's been taken more seriously these days.

...

You ask "with more and more eyes watching the skies in many, different ways, why is it that our actual contact rate is the same so far into 2016 as it has been in all the years before 2016?"

Maybe it has to do with the fact that in 2016 we still treat our fellow human being with distrust and selfish motives, just like we have in all the years before 2016.
I heard a quote from a Rabbi on CBC today, he said "
the greatest weapon of mass destruction is with the human heart". It seems that the more we stay the same the less the world really changes. We have new technology but the old world ideas about war and isolationism still plagues us. If you were an advance race overlooking such war-like people would you jump right in and announce yourself? Maybe a slow approach as in increased sightings is more prudent.
 
@revjohn,

well, there was that paranormal experience you had at that camp with the invisible whale of evil -- that was quite the experience

tho again, that isn't fairly called a UAP; & since it only happened to you once...who knew what it was but man, what an experience you had :3

(which reminds me that various people have tried to come up with some kind of universal explanation for these dyverse experiences -- from psi to possession to UAP to cryptid sightings -- I find them to be entertaining & good to keep the mental machinery well oiled...)
 
[Yikes! I accidentally posted this in the wrong thread. Or an alien made me do it.]

If one is looking for possible biblical precedents, 3 candidates are:

(1) the "flying saucer" in Ezekiel 1

(2) the "nephelim" of Gen. 6:4, "sons of god" who interbreed with human women

(3) Less well known, but more mysterious and interesting are the "elemental spirits" (Greek: "stocheia tou kosmou") of Gal 4:3; Col 2:8, 20. who are distinguished from "demons," and yet can potentially enslave humans. These spirits are typically associated with astrological energies and therefore are the closest things to scary entities from "out there." To their credit, the NRSV translators, get "elemental spirits" right, unlike many of the predecessors.

More interesting linguistic connexions between Seraphim & Serpent
Possible myth origins of Seraphim -- they weren't angels
Adam & Eve were Mammal-reptile hybrids
 
Inannawhimsey said:
@revjohn,

well, there was that paranormal experience you had at that camp with the invisible whale of evil -- that was quite the experience


There was that.

Mind you I was dealing with different sensations at the time. Nothing seen so much as felt and as to identifiability that was less of a problem for me than the consequences which followed from making such an identification.

Unidentified things do not quickly lead to a consequence other than a personal failure to identify said thing.

 

There was that.

Mind you I was dealing with different sensations at the time. Nothing seen so much as felt and as to identifiability that was less of a problem for me than the consequences which followed from making such an identification.

Unidentified things do not quickly lead to a consequence other than a personal failure to identify said thing.

I remember your story as well, for me in my teens, I saw many times and felt, the images are still vivid im my mind i guess one never forgets something like that
 
blackbelt1961 said:
I remember your story as well, for me in my teens, I saw many times and felt, the images are still vivid im my mind i guess one never forgets something like that

This far removed the feelings have faded. I talk more about the impressions made during the event rather than the feelings felt during the same event.

I am very delighted that the event not be repeated.

One day I wouldn't mind forgetting the uglier aspects.
 
This far removed the feelings have faded. I talk more about the impressions made during the event rather than the feelings felt during the same event.

I am very delighted that the event not be repeated.

One day I wouldn't mind forgetting the uglier aspects.

agree, the ugly i still see in my mind, I can still sometimes feel for lack of a better term, but the fear is gone because of my understanding of Jesus and what He has done spirituality and Legally for us
 
Are UFOs from parallel dimensions, the spirit world, or a different solar system in our universe? One aspect of this question troubles me. Scientists often dogmatically declare that universe is teeming with life. Such dogmatism is strikingly premature because we don't know how life was created, whether or not God is the ultimate Creator. But I do believe this: if microbial life is found on Mars, the moon Europa, or somewhere else in our solar system, then it seems reasonable to claim that it must be present in countless solar systems throughout our universe..
 
Mystic said:
Are UFOs from parallel dimensions, the spirit world, or a different solar system in our universe?
Mystic you are funny. UFO's are simply what it says on the label "Unidentified Flying Objects". nothing more, nothing less they could be from anywhere, bar a spirit world. or parallel dimensions, that's just stepping too far into cloud cuckoo land. Woo woo.
Mystic said:
One aspect of this question troubles me. Scientists often dogmatically declare that universe is teeming with life.
Teeming? Dogmatic? Citations needed? And proof of dogmatism? "Dogmatic" really?
Mystic said:
Such dogmatism is strikingly premature
Probably because you made it up.
Mystic said:
because we don't know how life was created,
But we have a reasonably (note the reasonably) good idea.
Mystic said:
whether or not God is the ultimate Creator. But I do believe this:
??
Mystic said:
if microbial life is found on Mars, the moon Europa, or somewhere else in our solar system,
It has been found! Here, in abundance.
Mystic said:
then it seems reasonable to claim that it must be present in countless solar systems throughout our universe.
Exactly. Given there are countless trillions of star with earth like planets orbiting them. life started in space and evolved on earth so it is very likely it did the very same else where. Whether we as a species will ever get to meet any of them is in my opinion unlikely. at present there is far too much to overcome, but we are a resilient species. So anything is possible. Probable is another story.
 
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