TRUMP - Some people think......... How do you feel?

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Mendalla said:
I hate to say it, but I'm kind of with Trump on his dustup with with a wealthy Saudi prince. The prince took a shot at Trump, calling him a disgrace to his country. The Donald, not surprisingly, shot back; accusing the prince of using "Daddy's money" to buy US politicians and saying he would bring that to an end. Given that I am an advocate of the West cutting ties with the Saudis for any number of reasons (the likelihood that at least some Saudi money is flowing to Al Qaeda and maybe even ISIL, their human rights record, etc.), I can't really fault Trump this time, even if it would not be even close to enough to get me to vote for him were I eligible to do so.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ed-bin-talal-donald-trump-disgrace-to-country
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I have to agree with you here. I'm all for cutting ties with the wealthy oil barons of Saudi, and a few other oil-rich nations. But much of Trump's vendetta seems to be against the ordinary Muslims. People like my Canadian-born doctor (her parents immigrated from Pakistan 40+ years ago) - if this were Trump's USA she would have to be registered - as would her husband who has converted from luke-warm Christian to devote Muslim. And, since no Muslims would be permitted to enter the USA, she wouldn't be able to visit her sister who married an American man of the Muslim faith and moved there a decade ago. And if her sister came to Canada to visit her parents, would she be permitted to return to the States?

And does Trump even realize that Muslim is a religion, not a race or nationality? How is he going to determine who is a Muslim? Will his ban include white Europeans who have converted to the Muslim faith? And what about people from the middle-east or Asia or Africa who do not practice the Muslim religion - having become secular, or converting to another religion?
 
Lets face the dark truth ... it is not the poverty struck that cause the greatest uprisings ... but rich barons with fancy cover-ups ...

Consider how much fossil fuel was used or destroyed in past wars to preserve their right to fight for business excesses ... polity?
 
Seeler said:
And does Trump even realize that Muslim is a religion, not a race or nationality? How is he going to determine who is a Muslim? Will his ban include white Europeans who have converted to the Muslim faith? And what about people from the middle-east or Asia or Africa who do not practice the Muslim religion - having become secular, or converting to another religion?
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See, that's my question, too, because I know a Muslim who is a Dutch convert and would not be identified as Muslim unless you specifically asked him. No beard, no kaftan, no other overt signs of his faith (He's Ismaili, a very liberal, open-minded sect. Even his South Asian wife is not obviously Muslim since she wears Western dress and no head covering.)

Would they ask everybody and assume everyone will be honest or do they racial profile so that my friend gets through if he keeps his mouth shut but the brown guy with the beard behind him gets the third degree even though he's actually an Assyrian Christian who is fleeing persecution by ISIL?

There is just so much wrong with this plan I don't know where to begin. Hopefully saner heads will prevail, in the courts if not in the administration, even if Trump does somehow end up in the White House.
 
Mendalla said:
I hate to say it, but I'm kind of with Trump on his dustup with with a wealthy Saudi prince. The prince took a shot at Trump, calling him a disgrace to his country. The Donald, not surprisingly, shot back; accusing the prince of using "Daddy's money" to buy US politicians and saying he would bring that to an end. Given that I am an advocate of the West cutting ties with the Saudis for any number of reasons (the likelihood that at least some Saudi money is flowing to Al Qaeda and maybe even ISIL, their human rights record, etc.), I can't really fault Trump this time, even if it would not be even close to enough to get me to vote for him were I eligible to do so.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ed-bin-talal-donald-trump-disgrace-to-country
Click to expand...
It's the pot calling the kettle black. Trump is a product of his family fortunes too...but he just says whatever the hell comes out of his mouth hoping people will buy it. He is disgraceful. He wants people to think he's an "Everyman" when he is so far from it. I think there are some serious problems with Saudi Arabia, but this particular prince has been working against the grain of his family toward equality for women and has pledged his 32B fortune to charity. There were recently regional elections there, women voted for the first time, and 19 were elected. That's something. And it would require somebody benevolent from the "family" to help make that happen and evolve them out of the 17the century seeing as it is a monarchy. And eventually maybe it won't be. In the meantime there are some seriously repressive things going on there but we can't assume it's this prince's fault. And, if nobody there complained Trump would be happy to do business there, he has a lot of holdings there, so I don't think he cares about their human rights record. As president he would continue to do business with them. He cares about $ and the power it can buy. However, there is a growing boycott of Trump and Trump products in the region.
 
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Kimmio said:
It's the pot calling the kettle black. Trump is a product of his family fortunes too...but he just says whatever the hell comes out of his mouth hoping people will buy it. He is disgraceful. He wants people to think he's an "Everyman" when he is so far from it. I think there are some serious problems with Saudi Arabia, but this particular prince has been working against the grain of his family toward equality for women and has pledged his 32B fortune to charity. There were recently regional elections there, women voted for the first time, and 19 were elected. That's something. And it would require somebody benevolent from the "family" to help make that happen and evolve them out of the 17the century seeing as it is a monarchy. And eventually maybe it won't be. In the meantime there are some seriously repressive things going on there but we can't assume it's this prince's fault. And, if nobody there complained Trump would be happy to do business there, he has a lot of holdings there, so I don't think he cares about their human rights record. As president he would continue to do business with them. He cares about $ and the power it can buy. However, there is a growing boycott of Trump and Trump products in the region.
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Agreed that it's the pot calling the kettle black but it is rare for a US politician to criticize the Saudis and their influence in Washington so I was calling attention to that. The election of women is a positive step but doesn't mean much until the family steps aside to create a constitutional monarchy to replace the current absolute one. They also need to be held to account for the Saudi money that has somehow been making its way to Al Qaeda and ISIL. Until they publicly deal with that, they cannot be let off the hook no matter what else they do right. They keep portraying themselves as allies and yet, it is fairly clear that members of their own family, even if they aren't close to the King, have sent money to Islamist groups which tends to suggest that they are playing both sides of the street rather than being firm, faithful allies.
 
San IDe' ... in a world with religion based on emotions alone ... no Q'loos? Impossible ...

Loose Q's ... similar to flighty th' aughts! Q\s me for the lighter vane ...
 
Mendalla said:
Agreed that it's the pot calling the kettle black but it is rare for a US politician to criticize the Saudis and their influence in Washington so I was calling attention to that. The election of women is a positive step but doesn't mean much until the family steps aside to create a constitutional monarchy to replace the current absolute one. They also need to be held to account for the Saudi money that has somehow been making its way to Al Qaeda and ISIL. Until they publicly deal with that, they cannot be let off the hook no matter what else they do right. They keep portraying themselves as allies and yet, it is fairly clear that members of their own family, even if they aren't close to the King, have sent money to Islamist groups which tends to suggest that they are playing both sides of the street rather than being firm, faithful allies.
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I agree but I don't think Trump cares about that. I think, had they not boycotted him in the region he would've carried on, business as usual. I read somewhere, the Guardian maybe, that Trump has sour grapes against this guy because he bought some of Trump's hotel or other real estate shares and his yacht when he was going through bankruptcy in the late 90's. They know each other, at least through business. This prince is probably not squeaky clean, but I don't think that's Trump's main concern. It's just clash of the business Titans.
 
There are better ways to transform the earth. God, I wish all the money put into and generated by oil and wars...that everyone could just....stop....turn around....and put it into an ecological economy that benefits everyone for generations to come. Stop tying the whole thing up, Titans, so people could get on with fixing mistakes of the past, healing, and cooperating for the better.
 
Kimmio said:
There are better ways to transform the earth. God, I wish all the money put into and generated by oil and wars...that everyone could just....stop....turn around....and put it into an ecological economy that benefits everyone for generations to come. Stop tying the whole thing up, Titans, so people could get on with fixing mistakes of the past, healing, and cooperating for the better.
Click to expand...
 
Kimmio said:
There are better ways to transform the earth. God, I wish all the money put into and generated by oil and wars...that everyone could just....stop....turn around....and put it into an ecological economy that benefits everyone for generations to come. Stop tying the whole thing up, Titans, so people could get on with fixing mistakes of the past, healing, and cooperating for the better.
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What would we do with all the oily phetchs with out rendering something down ?
 
Putz a Nous face on money lessa ... once portrayed by a visor as Mona Lisa?

Sacred economics ... something to put some hidden ego gnomes into ... small little dark things ... Pix "Ls"? With a gathering you may grasp a point of socio egonomics ... but if naivete is your standard ... you may be opposed to socio function and thus antisocialist?

Stuff you can't say to the oily garchs as a truth ... the truth hurts "M" as a gathering point of interest and unknown debt.

A pane on the windows of heaven ... to many a dirty window of an overheated mine without appropriate Eire ...
 
Eire; we note a flighty thought ... won't stay with an emotional gathering unless wrapped in a hard shoaled tingy ... gone ashore looking for grits on the beeches? Biddy of a Job for Semites ... getting into a heavenly domain of mine without attached myth!


EL dore a'do ... that deep well ... or just a hole in the earth/mire as Myra? Thus the "c" goes round ... with vert egoes ... the teaching process was on "ignore" ... thus learning was buy ... past! Something non negotiable ... generally a generational sacred thing ... passed on as numb, or passive mind! Bacchus blossomed unseen ... becoming Shadow of aD ulterior motive?

Ath aught against momentum of presence ... possibly deviant Light off the authoritarian trax? Disturbing or just logical dissonance against the irrational mode ...
 
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If humans have had the ability over the last century to create an economic system that doesn't work for most of the world's population, who's to say we don't have the ability to create one that does? Like in the above video undef provided? What could happen is that "soft power" could eventually replace "hard power" in the world. When people have had enough of hard asses and some newer thinking fair minded leaders replace the dinosaurs, it could happen. The corrupt leader in the world - they're going to mostly keel over in the next 20 years or so anyway. They're getting old, and the newer ones will have newer vision. And by "soft power", I do not think that "power" is a dirty word. Anyone who has good ideas and the ability to lead and help has "power". A different kind of turning over. More like a compassionate tilling of the soil, patch by patch. What if, with all Trump's bluster and noise, it was actually Bernie Sanders who silently gains ground and wins. That would change the world. It would certainly change North America. What if Hilary gets in, which she quite likely will, she has been listening to Bernie's constituents and recognizes that the world needs to change and can start to be a force for good changes. We never know what could happen but as long as people keep thinking of peaceful and constructive solutions, the worst needn't happen.
 
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I love undef's video, too, and applaud those who look for alternate solutions (and recognize that capitalism, with it's built-in requirement of limitless growth, is not going to do).

However, there are real powerful people who are in real charge, and our wishes mean less than nothing to them. Why would they give up control and power that is in their hands now? I see more recipes for war than for good endings...
 
One must escape this chit into ulterior motive ... an ulterior thing like lower halls or lessor vessels ... small de tailings in boats?

Michael was rhoe'n ...
 
BetteTheRed said:
I love undef's video, too, and applaud those who look for alternate solutions (and recognize that capitalism, with it's built-in requirement of limitless growth, is not going to do).

However, there are real powerful people who are in real charge, and our wishes mean less than nothing to them. Why would they give up control and power that is in their hands now? I see more recipes for war than for good endings...
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Not to worry, they're not going to be around forever. Most of them are seniors.
 
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