TRUMP - Some people think......... How do you feel?

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Kimmio said:
This is all very Biblical, though.

Jesus was not a rebel dissident. He may have supported the same cause, but not the same "way".
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As with the Jaerd and Jaded ... off ba yis heh's stuck ... Caesar is accepted as rite power ... as authored power ... some lesser weevil may function while the elite really ... don't as Donus ... thus laid out as donated to the gods without Q Loos ...

Just to present Jae with chaos ... muchis confusion ... so he doesn't get pushed into thinking alternately ... but could be druid out ... Jae is in drag if you observe his Maas 'v closet?use all the help we can get in

Everything ... please assist us ... we can use it as utilitarian anonymous scents ... ethereal drive?
 
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Kimmio said:
Trump is correct (as is Inanna) in that there is a small faction of "alt-left" or extreme left, that uses violence as a tactic against oppression - sort of like the Black Bloc - which is wrong. Fighting violence with violence will never work. It will never end well. I don't know if those types of characters were in Charlottesville...but the woman who was murdered was not one of them...she was standing up, non-violently, to white supremacy. I do know that it is intellectually dishonest to say that the grievances that White Supremacists have are equal to the grievances that the racial minority groups they've oppressed have.
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One side supports racism,hatred, bigotry, suppression and the other side is protesting against those things. They are total opposites. The white nationalists and ALt right are WRONG! There is no comparison....one side is just wrong and so is Trump!
 
I came across this, buried amongst Mother Jone's articles about Charlottesville. This "anti-hero" and his gang could be described as alt-left. And he served time for what he did...and what he did was wrong. Problem is, I don't know if he knows it. Violence as a tactic to bring peace and equality just destroys any cause of peace and equality.

It's like the difference between MLK and Malcolm X's tactics. MLK believed in non-violent resistance. Malcolm X thought violence was justified. Same cause, different "way".

Inside the anti-racist movement that brings the fight to white supremacists
 
Waterfall said:
One side supports racism,hatred, bigotry, suppression and the other side is protesting against those things. They are total opposites. The white nationalists and ALt right are WRONG! There is no comparison....one side is just wrong and so is Trump!
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The White Nationalist are WRONG. I totally agree. And those who would fight their oppression with violence are also wrong. That's all I agree with Trump about. We don't have any evidence that those types were there. Trump is saying that alt-leftists showed up with clubs. If they did, that was wrong. Where Innana, for example, and I part ways is that there is no equivalency of the oppression that racial minorities have suffered under white supremacy. There is no "vice versa" with regard to that. And Trump, if he believes there is, is wrong. The white supremacists do not have a valid cause. And neither the alt right nor the alt left - if they use violence - have valid tactics.
 
Would this have been permitted in Canada? Unlike the USA, we have limits to our freedom of speech. Section 1 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms allows the Government to reasonably limit it. It is not an absolute right.

The US has the 1st amendment and it allows freedom of speech, which supposedly allows them to protest as long as there is no threat to others. So does this mean that even the most offensive hate groups are constitutionally protected? Are we going to see more of this IYO?
 
The neo-nazis would've been shut down here - they wouldn't be given a permit to propagate white supremacist hate like down south. The memes that came out from the birthers during that time would not be allowed here, either. Hate groups, like Westboro Baptist are not even allowed to come up here. They've been turned away a few times. I don't imagine anyone from the KKK or the like would be legally allowed to "preach" here, either.
 
Waterfall said:
Would this have been permitted in Canada? Unlike the USA, we have limits to our freedom of speech. Section 1 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms allows the Government to reasonably limit it. It is not an absolute right.

The US has the 1st amendment and it allows freedom of speech, which supposedly allows them to protest as long as there is no threat to others. So does this mean that even the most offensive hate groups are constitutionally protected? Are we going to see more of this IYO?
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No it probably wouldnt be allowed in Canada. Different BS. Our rights arent given by g_d or are Natural Law but r rather all thanks to the gov't


I've been seeing hints of "white supremacist" or Canadian Nationalist* groups taking out permits for demonstrations in various places in Kanadastan.

There have been many demonstrations in Canada by ProHamas groups.

Some Imams are allowed to preach hate in Canada. Tho I see that's changing.

And some terrorist groups have been allowed in Canadian parades.

LA DI DAH!!
*i still boggle at that concept. Polite Tim Horton's Fanatics? People softly raising their voices to "Bitter Green is the best song"?
 
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Kimmio said:
I came across this, buried amongst Mother Jone's articles about Charlottesville. This "anti-hero" and his gang could be described as alt-left. And he served time for what he did...and what he did was wrong. Problem is, I don't know if he knows it. Violence as a tactic to bring peace and equality just destroys any cause of peace and equality.

It's like the difference between MLK and Malcolm X's tactics. MLK believed in non-violent resistance. Malcolm X thought violence was justified. Same cause, different "way".

Inside the anti-racist movement that brings the fight to white supremacists
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I'm quoting my own post, and the Mother Jones link in it regarding the alt left- because I think the NYT is being disingenuous to say there isn't an "alt-left". It may be a made up term - to encompass far left groups that use violence as a tactic to fight oppression; while the alt-right is a made up term that encompasses white nationalist sexist bigotry that has seen a rapid expansion in the world lately.

Alt-Right, Alt-Left, Antifa: A Glossary of Extremist Language

Pretending that violent far leftists don't exist is also dishonest and doesn't help the cause of peace and equality. It only supports the government further in bringing about marshall law to shut down peaceful protests.

During Ferguson last year, Obama denounced the people in the black community who were fighting back with violence - but he did it eloquently and I don't think he would ever honestly say or imply, that the oppression - historical and present - is equal on all sides.
 
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Here is a piece that's a few months old, from Mother Jones again (which is a respected progressive left wing magazine) about the existence of the alt-left. They are a thing (and the peaceful and equality minded "left" - those who believe in peace and equality and multiculturalism, if they really want to preserve it - need to be honest about the alt-left and denounce it) ... their violent tactics are not a valid way of fighting back the bigotry that's been on the rise again. This article - appropriately - makes the comparison to the Black Panthers in the 60's. Perhaps today the Black Panthers and groups like them, would be called "alt-left".

A new wave of left-wing militants is ready to rumble in Portland—and beyond
 
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Mother Jones magazine was established in 1976 - just thought I'd mention that. They're not some media site that just sprung up recently. I appreciate their honest journalism, as an established progressive news and opinion magazine, in exposing the existence of the "alt-left" while the MSM is trying to gloss over it - which doesn't help.
 
Part of the problem - maybe all of it - imo, is that violence as a means to challenge oppressive government is actually written into the U.S. constitution. And the White Supremacists saw Obama - and even long before that, civil rights (so Trump is correct on 2 counts - but is wrong to convey that oppression is equal from both sides - so he either believes the oppression is equal, or doesn't have a strong grasp of history, or he bumbled his words) - as an affront to their freedom and their privelege, whereby they clung to their right to bear arms. And, now, some on the far left are doing the same thing in response to the rise of fascism, because it's in their cultural DNA via their constitution (or so they seem to think). The alt-left does exist and its support of violent tactics is the wrong response to the re-emergence of racism and bigotry.
 
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To clarify one more thing - alt-left (far left factions that resort to violence as a tactic) do exist - but white nationalism/ white supremacy is what I think is to blame in Charlottesville. David Duke who was/ is a KKK grand wizard (and Trump supporter) was there. They came out with torches and nazi flags and chanted vile racist things. One of them killed a woman and injured several others. If ('if' it is true) any members of the alt-left came out with clubs to beat up on white supremacists that was the wrong reaction - and needs to be denounced - but it was not the cause of what happened in Charlottesville.
 
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This is really crazy...an investigative journalist on the front lines:

I went behind the front lines with the far-right agitators who invaded Berkeley

Should people be allowed to freely assemble to spew white nationalist nazi hate? No. I don't think so. No. But that's the U.S. Not Canada. There, they are allowed to do that as long as it's "only words" and doesn't get physical. It's not only offensive, but dangerous - yet, violent reactions from antifa are wrong.

But I also think political correctness can be abused where even tasteless jokes can be overreacted to - especially in Canada, we've become hyper PC - but people walking around with torches chanting racist, white supremacist slogans and carrying nazi flags are on a whole other level and it's sad and scary to see it re-emerging - it's threatening, violent language - and that's not free speech it's unequivocally hate speech.
 
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