TRUMP - Some people think......... How do you feel?

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Kimmio said:
I believe Comey and I believe Trump. ...
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I think you're absolutely right about that. As I've said, over the last year or so I've become convinced that Trump creates his own reality to suit the moment, and when he does so I don't believe he's lying. I think he absolutely, totally believes the new reality. In that sense, I think that Comey and Trump can both be speaking the "truth" (in their minds) even if only one of them is relating what actually happened.

If the question is who I believe to be presenting a more factual version of what was said in their private conversations, I'd side with Comey. But that doesn't mean that I consider Trump a simple liar.

Every Trump supporter will disagree with the rest of this, so I'll just acknowledge your disagreement now, and say that we'll agree to disagree.

I'm no psychologist (that's my caveat here) but I'm not entirely unfamiliar with the descriptions of various psychological conditions and how they manifest themselves either. It's helpful for a minister to have some very basic knowledge of this stuff, so I've taken counselling courses, read a few books, etc. One thing I've learned is that in some cases, a pathological liar may sincerely believe that their lies are truth; they don't understand or comprehend the difference between a lie or the truth or they can manipulate the truth into something unrecognizable to anyone else. To my amateur eye, there's plenty of evidence that Trump falls into this category. You could argue that Bill Clinton also had some traits of this, as in "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinski." Maybe he was engaging in semantic gymnastics about oral sex; but maybe he really believed it. Who knows. But with Bill Clinton, I think it was situational, and that for the most part he was quite cognizant of reality. I'm not sure about Trump. I'm just not sure.

I can see ways in which this might have been an advantage to Trump in running a family business, with no one to answer to, dealing with people who would simply follow his orders, and whose primary role was frankly to simply market and license his name. (I'm not dissing him for that, by the way - he was obviously very successful at doing that.) Whether I'm comfortable with the idea that the President of the United States might well be unable to distinguish between truth and fabrication and may well be living an existence which isn't entirely in touch with reality, when at the same time being the Commander in Chief of the largest and most powerful military machine in the world is a different story. Mike Pence may be a strident, doctrinaire social conservative (that would be for Americans to deal with) - but I'm pretty sure that the world would rest easier with him in the White House rather than having him being kicked out of meetings when Trump would find his presence inconvenient (as in, the meeting with Comey.)

It's easy to say that all politicians lie - but at least I think that most of them know they're lying. I'm not sure Trump does.
 
Mendalla said:
I vote neither. Comey is engaging in some serious CYA. If you think he is being 100% honest and forthcoming, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.
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To be perfectly honest, we all - each and every one of us - "spin" the truth to our advantage at least some of the time. (You know the old joke - "Honey, do I look fat in this dress?" You better have the right answer, whether it's truthful or not, and the right answer is not "Wow - I just realized you need to lose a few pounds.") So I'd agree with your statement that Comey wasn't being "100% honest and forthcoming." I'd say however that his version of the conversations between the two is probably more believable, if not completely believable, for reasons I explained above.
 
In the middle of an incident of sects ... who knows what? Thus chaos ad infinitum ... do mortal limits contain this ...or is there more to eternal than mortal can conceptualize? A kind 've god is further beyond us than that ... even in essence ...

Yet some believe that this unknown is in their box or tricks ... I had one PHD candidate tell me that he was god ... believing he had the unknowable in control ... a highly variant observation ... thus we stand on moving and shaky ground with such odd beliefs ...
 
revsdd said:
Ah. The insults (yea - even persecution) that one must endure as a famous Jewish musician who fakes his own death in order to focus on Jesus' work.
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IT'll be the death of meis ... the och-men will arrange the preservation ... pickling of sol?
 
I find it interesting, to say the least, that Comey kept a paper trail.

The memos to self thing is a trail easy to rewrite if you don't send the memos elsewhere. In that regard it is not the most honest trail blazed. I have used a similar trail when I found myself in some potential for trouble. I produce a verbatim which is an honest recall of the conversation had without any attempt to discern motivations in others for saying what they said while very much discerning why I said what I said. I keep a copy. A copy goes to my M&P chair to keep on file and I have sent a copy to the Conference Personnel Minister. Sometimes things are too important to trust to accurate recall.

Trump saying, "He better hope there are no tapes" sounds like a threat. At the very least it invites folk to consider that the oustered FBI head is less than truthful.

Comey's retort, "I hope there are tapes" is the call. Trump is either bluffing about tapes existing and Comey's truthfulness or something else. Like maybe tapes do exist and they affirm Comey's truthfulness with respect to conversation.

So, gentlemen, let's see those cards please.
 
revjohn said:
I find it interesting, to say the least, that Comey kept a paper trail.

The memos to self thing is a trail easy to rewrite if you don't send the memos elsewhere. In that regard it is not the most honest trail blazed. I have used a similar trail when I found myself in some potential for trouble. I produce a verbatim which is an honest recall of the conversation had without any attempt to discern motivations in others for saying what they said while very much discerning why I said what I said. I keep a copy. A copy goes to my M&P chair to keep on file and I have sent a copy to the Conference Personnel Minister. Sometimes things are too important to trust to accurate recall.

Trump saying, "He better hope there are no tapes" sounds like a threat. At the very least it invites folk to consider that the oustered FBI head is less than truthful.

Comey's retort, "I hope there are tapes" is the call. Trump is either bluffing about tapes existing and Comey's truthfulness or something else. Like maybe tapes do exist and they affirm Comey's truthfulness with respect to conversation.

So, gentlemen, let's see those cards please.
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Are the Trump Cards face down ... or something justly fallen on their face?

Is the promise of power something that needs security of cover-up to obscure whoo's screwing Hoo into the mire ... and the mire woman surrounding us all ... knows! Thus us covered with dirt and mire are like ostriches ... unless we attempt to dig the reason and causes we find life obscured from us ... a corruption of power or how history is mostly rot, (or wrote wrong)?
 
revsdd said:
I think you're absolutely right about that. As I've said, over the last year or so I've become convinced that Trump creates his own reality to suit the moment, and when he does so I don't believe he's lying. I think he absolutely, totally believes the new reality. In that sense, I think that Comey and Trump can both be speaking the "truth" (in their minds) even if only one of them is relating what actually happened.

If the question is who I believe to be presenting a more factual version of what was said in their private conversations, I'd side with Comey. But that doesn't mean that I consider Trump a simple liar.

Every Trump supporter will disagree with the rest of this, so I'll just acknowledge your disagreement now, and say that we'll agree to disagree.

I'm no psychologist (that's my caveat here) but I'm not entirely unfamiliar with the descriptions of various psychological conditions and how they manifest themselves either. It's helpful for a minister to have some very basic knowledge of this stuff, so I've taken counselling courses, read a few books, etc. One thing I've learned is that in some cases, a pathological liar may sincerely believe that their lies are truth; they don't understand or comprehend the difference between a lie or the truth or they can manipulate the truth into something unrecognizable to anyone else. To my amateur eye, there's plenty of evidence that Trump falls into this category. You could argue that Bill Clinton also had some traits of this, as in "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinski." Maybe he was engaging in semantic gymnastics about oral sex; but maybe he really believed it. Who knows. But with Bill Clinton, I think it was situational, and that for the most part he was quite cognizant of reality. I'm not sure about Trump. I'm just not sure.

I can see ways in which this might have been an advantage to Trump in running a family business, with no one to answer to, dealing with people who would simply follow his orders, and whose primary role was frankly to simply market and license his name. (I'm not dissing him for that, by the way - he was obviously very successful at doing that.) Whether I'm comfortable with the idea that the President of the United States might well be unable to distinguish between truth and fabrication and may well be living an existence which isn't entirely in touch with reality, when at the same time being the Commander in Chief of the largest and most powerful military machine in the world is a different story. Mike Pence may be a strident, doctrinaire social conservative (that would be for Americans to deal with) - but I'm pretty sure that the world would rest easier with him in the White House rather than having him being kicked out of meetings when Trump would find his presence inconvenient (as in, the meeting with Comey.)

It's easy to say that all politicians lie - but at least I think that most of them know they're lying. I'm not sure Trump does.
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Like: "I have one of the best temperaments. Believe me."..."I have the best words. Believe me." And his supporters also believe it. He's excellent at lying to himself.
 
Luce NDs said:
Are the Trump Cards face down ... or something justly fallen on their face?

Is the promise of power something that needs security of cover-up to obscure whoo's screwing Hoo into the mire ... and the mire woman surrounding us all ... knows! Thus us covered with dirt and mire are like ostriches ... unless we attempt to dig the reason and causes we find life obscured from us ... a corruption of power or how history is mostly rot, (or wrote wrong)?
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Do remember Trump Cards Luce? My brother Dr. Rae and I used to play them with a couple of friends of ours on the bus ride to school.
 
There are some texts that say believe yourself ... but should one understand the concept of one's elf first?

Tis a devilish process of deviousness and variance ... thus waves! Only the devil picks up the fractals left over ...
 
Jae said:
Do remember Trump Cards Luce? My brother Dr. Rae and I used to play them with a couple of friends of ours on the bus ride to school.
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As normal a wrong interpretation ...

Its acceptable though ... I don't know anything either but can speak of my encounters and incidents with the schism ... voids? Leads to facile questions ... some believe questions are unacceptable when speaking of absentee essences ... (w)hole concerns with omega? If you ever catch up from last ... try and get a leer at the face of it ... eh bi!

There are some say we will have to face up to it in future times ... perhaps as we look on from strangely loved domains ... out there?
 
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With any person elected to leadership in the U.S. or Canada, I see no prospect whatever of addressiing the major problem of climate change. And I mean at every level from President to village mayor. And the time we have left is very, very little. Once climate change really gets well under way (within the next ten to twenty years) expect monster refugeeism with we have no wish or capacity to handle. We can also expect wars over food. I recommend a book by Gywnne Dyer, Climate Wars.
 
Graeme Decarie said:
With any person elected to leadership in the U.S. or Canada, I see no prospect whatever of addressiing the major problem of climate change. And I mean at every level from President to village mayor. And the time we have left is very, very little. Once climate change really gets well under way (within the next ten to twenty years) expect monster refugeeism with we have no wish or capacity to handle. We can also expect wars over food. I recommend a book by Gywnne Dyer, Climate Wars.
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Some Canadians may be the refugees, if the polar ice fully melts, there are many coastal cities in the Great Lakes basin.
 
Waterfall said:
Some Canadians may be the refugees, if the polar ice fully melts, there are many coastal cities in the Great Lakes basin.
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Thing is, the Great Lakes basin doesn't take water in from the oceans, which are what is rising, nor do they take in water directly from the melting ice caps. That's simply not how water moves on this continent. They flow out to the ocean through the St. Lawrence after taking in water from various watersheds (including the Thames and Grand near me) that are mostly fed by rain and melting winter snow. While changes to the amount of precipitation due to climate change could affect the level of the Great Lakes, the melting ice caps won't do so directly. The lakes are higher this year, but that's because of the amount of rain we've had, not because of melting ice caps. And, really, they've been low in recent years so them rising this year isn't necessarily a bad thing, more of a correction. Now, true coastal cities like Halifax. Yeah, they are going to see impacts from the melting ice caps raising the sea level.
 
Mendalla said:
Thing is, the Great Lakes basin doesn't take water in from the oceans, which are what is rising, nor do they take in water directly from the melting ice caps. That's simply not how water moves on this continent. They flow out to the ocean through the St. Lawrence after taking in water from various watersheds (including the Thames and Grand near me) that are mostly fed by rain and melting winter snow. While changes to the amount of precipitation due to climate change could affect the level of the Great Lakes, the melting ice caps won't do so directly. The lakes are higher this year, but that's because of the amount of rain we've had, not because of melting ice caps. And, really, they've been low in recent years so them rising this year isn't necessarily a bad thing, more of a correction. Now, true coastal cities like Halifax. Yeah, they are going to see impacts from the melting ice caps raising the sea level.
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We shall see.:cautious:
 
Water flows downhill.
Just watched Gwynn dyer on his book. He is not really qualified in the field. The book is old enough now that we can see all the projected models of the day have been proven false.
 
Waterfall said:
We shall see.:cautious:
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I'm curious. Do you know of a scientific study (or just a reputable scientist) that suggests that cities in the Great Lakes basin could be affected by rising sea levels? I haven't heard that, which only means that I haven't heard it. I'd be interested in it if you know of one.
 
Dyer is very, very qualified, indeed in his first field, which is military history. And I think all his projections on the military (war) results of climate change are bang on - and they are already happening. Starvation is spreading in Africa, for example. And all of the projected models of the day have NOT proven false. As well, he spent a great deal of his research for that book in consulting with recognized experts in the study of climate change. The U.S. military takes seriously enough that it has a whole department of top scientists studying the implications of climate change.
And among the projections that are holding up is that world food supply has flattened. And it has done so despite a rapidly growing population.
We haven't been able to handle 80 million refugees. What will we do when it hits 800,000,000 million - soon?
And quoting Revelations is not a useful way to help millions of the starving.
It's true, of course, that rivers in places like BC are fed by melting ice and snow caps on mountains. So what's going to happen when those ice and snow caps are all melted.
It's not hard to find out. Just check out some of the shrinking rivers of China, and the damage that has cause to food production.
 
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