TRUMP - Some people think......... How do you feel?

Welcome to Wondercafe2!

A community where we discuss, share, and have some fun together. Join today and become a part of it!

Register Log in
revsdd said:
The amount of money spent on decorating the White House would do absolutely nothing to help the plight of the poor and homeless. Not decorating the White House and using that as the reason would simply be optics for Trump - making it look like he's doing something for the poor and homeless while he's actually doing nothing for the poor and homeless. The problems of poverty and homelessness are deeply entrenched systemic and societal and political problems and a token gesture would be insulting rather than helpful.
Click to expand...
Does the same hold for say decorating a 'manse'. Perhaps a pastor should advise his or her congregation that their 'donations' are doing absolutely nothing to help the plight of the poor and homeless and then decorate the manse accordingly to avoid making further insulting gestures. They could perhaps seize some children from a nearby reservation and dress them in appropriate 'church' garments ... then have them act out a suitably contrite posturing of gratefulness for being included in the 'decorating of the manse'.?

P.S. - The children should be compensated. With 'bottled' water and bags of 'refined' sugar to bring home to share with their 'people'?
P.P.S. - Plus mandatory vaccinations and sterilizations - but that goes without saying.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
monk said:
Does the same hold for say decorating a 'manse'. Perhaps a pastor should advise his or her congregation that their 'donations' are doing absolutely nothing to help the plight of the poor and homeless and then decorate the manse accordingly to avoid making further insulting gestures. They could perhaps seize some children from a nearby reservation and dress them in appropriate 'church' garments ... then have them act out a suitably contrite posturing of gratefulness for being included in the 'decorating of the manse'.?

P.S. - The children should be compensated. With 'bottled' water and bags of 'refined' sugar to bring home to share with their 'people'?
P.P.S. - Plus mandatory vaccinations and sterilizations - but that goes without saying.
Click to expand...

OK. I'm trying not to giggle.

Thankfully, I haven't lived in a manse for quite a number of years, but as I recall donations were generally used to do maintenance on the manse and only when absolutely necessary. I well remember the day that our water heater sprung a leak, we had water spreading quickly throughout the basement and the chair of the manse Committee decided that wrapping duct tape around the leak would solve the problem - because she didn't want to authorize spending any money. I also remember the fridge that was literally falling apart due to rust - but it still worked, so nobody thought replacing it was a priority. There was the washing machine that had sprung an oil leak and was leaving oil stains on our clothes - in a small Newfoundland fishing outport that had no fancy convenience like a laundromat to go to. Took a bit of time to get that worked out. (Actually, my wife almost left me over that one.) Somebody once donated a raggedy old rusty orange rug that they didn't want anymore because it was frayed and faded and ugly and in generally awful condition but decided that it was good enough for the minister and his family - and the Manse Committee decided to accept it because they didn't want to offend this "generous" giver - so we got stuck with it. For several years until we moved. As I recall, though, there was very little money spent by parishioners on "decorating the manse." Seasonal decorations were provided by us. I also recall paying myself for wall paper and paint just because of how horribly one manse was decorated - and the several layers of wall paper we found that must have gone back who knows how many years years because nobody could be bothered to actually remove the previous wall paper before putting up new wall paper - which is why we finally just threw up our hands and just did it ourselves - properly. Yeah. Good days. Those days of luxuriously decorated manses.

In any event since I don't object to a small portion of public funds being used to decorate the White House, I also don't object to a small portion of church donations being used for maintenance on a manse. However, if the manse budget starts to approach the percentage of the church budget that the US military budget is of the total US budget then its a problem.
 
Was a Manse resident for seven years in NL.

Absolutely no donations to the Church went into buying a single coloured bulb or ornament while occupied the manses. Money was ultimately spent on repairs. Carpets repaired at Church expense, we purchased paint and paper to redecorate the kids' rooms to their liking. Roof repairs were also completed at Church expense.

As for lights at the Church. We used candles until our insurer told us that was no longer allowed. Everything else was provided by volunteers and did not come from Church funds.

No idea what the situation is with either congregation now.
 
revsdd said:
Thankfully, I haven't lived in a manse for quite a number of years, but as I recall donations were generally used to do maintenance on the manse and only when absolutely necessary ...
Click to expand...
... who pray tell has the misfortune of living in the 'manse' attached to 'your' church today - or do they not have one?
 
Very few United Churches have manses anymore - especially those in larger centres. In my experience, ministers (myself certainly included) generally speaking prefer not to live in manses. It means in my current pastorate I live an hour away from the church because we couldn't afford anything in the immediate area of the church. Which is fine. I actually enjoy the commute through the country from north to south.

Funny thing is - I thought you'd have actually agreed with me that the real problem in the US is the obscene US military budget that could surely be put to better and more productive uses that would actually benefit the poor and homeless in a tangible way. Apparently not. You're more fixated on Christmas decorations and manses. And let's not forget life saving vaccinations.
 
revsdd said:
Very few United Churches have manses anymore - especially those in larger centres. In my experience, ministers (myself certainly included) generally speaking prefer not to live in manses. It means in my current pastorate I live an hour away from the church because we couldn't afford anything in the immediate area of the church. Which is fine. I actually enjoy the commute through the country from north to south.

Funny thing is - I thought you'd have actually agreed with me that the real problem in the US is the obscene US military budget that could surely be put to better and more productive uses that would actually benefit the poor and homeless in a tangible way. Apparently not. You're more fixated on Christmas decorations and manses. And let's not forget life saving vaccinations.
Click to expand...

Ha Ha ... that's me fixated on christmas decorations and manses - false equivalencies - conspiracy theories and fake news. I agree that the biggest problem - in Canada as well as the US is the obscene military budget that could be put to better use to benefit the whole world in tangible ways and if you read even half of my posts you would be aware of that by now. I would say the next biggest problem is citizens crying foul on their government spending but compliantly paying their taxes to support it. And let's not forget life 'altering' vaccinations - I agree.
 
monk said:
Ha Ha ... that's me fixated on christmas decorations and manses - false equivalencies - conspiracy theories and fake news. I agree that the biggest problem - in Canada as well as the US is the obscene military budget that could be put to better use to benefit the whole world in tangible ways and if you read even half of my posts you would be aware of that by now. I would say the next biggest problem is citizens crying foul on their government spending but compliantly paying their taxes to support it. And let's not forget life 'altering' vaccinations - I agree.
Click to expand...

I was referring of course to this specific exchange. I'm glad you agree about obscene military spending that could be put to better use.

You might be surprised by how many of your posts I read. I don't always comment, but I actually find you very interesting. I may not always (or often) agree with you, but that's beside the point. Your penchant for conspiracies notwithstanding, much of what you write I have no argument with and when I can separate the facts you're speaking of from the conspiracies you're fixated on we're generally on the same page.

As for taxes, Jesus paid his taxes. I'm sure he didn't support all the policies of the Roman government - but he did pay taxes. I'm sure Paul didn't support all the policies of the Roman government - but I suspect he paid his taxes as well.

It's me paying my taxes that I feel earns me the right to criticize when I feel the revenue they generate is being spent unwisely.
 
revsdd said:
As for taxes, Jesus paid his taxes. I'm sure he didn't support all the policies of the Roman government - but he did pay taxes. I'm sure Paul didn't support all the policies of the Roman government - but I suspect he paid his taxes as well.

It's me paying my taxes that I feel earns me the right to criticize when I feel the revenue they generate is being spent unwisely.
Click to expand...

15 Then the Pharisees went out and laid plans to trap him in his words. 16 They sent their disciples to him along with the Herodians. “Teacher,” they said, “we know that you are a man of integrity and that you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. You aren’t swayed by others, because you pay no attention to who they are. 17 Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay the imperial taxa]">[a] to Caesar or not?”

18 But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? 19 Show me the coin used for paying the tax.” They brought him a denarius, 20 and he asked them, “Whose image is this? And whose inscription?”

21 “Caesar’s,” they replied.

Then he said to them, “So give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”
 
Kimmio said:
What about his announcement today. It marks a change in nearly 70 yrs of policy with Israel?
Click to expand...

OTOH, it is the logical outcome of 70 years of unquestioning US government support for Israel. Even Obama didn't back too far away from that, though he certainly wasn't as hawkish about it as some. They pay lip service to two state, but given a choice between that and Israel, Israel wins.

And let's not forget that we nearly did the same thing almost 40 years before this announcement.

Joe Clark’s diplomatic crisis - CBC Archives
 
His announcement is terrifying. This could well trigger a war involving Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Israel, the U.S. with its illegal troops in Syria, Saudi Arabia - and Russia - and even China. This is insane. And such a war could well trigger the use of nuclear weapons. Israel, for a start, has a large supply of them

It's not just a Trump stupidity. This almost certainly has the support of a large part of the U.S. corporation world - its great attempt at an American world empire.
 
Mendalla is quite right, too. But that does nothing to ease the danger which has been created.

We can also expect to see weakening of American Jewish support for Israel, particularly in view of the monstrous corruption of Netanhahu and his wife.
 
I too find it frightening. The protests in the ME are already underway. Even if, as Mendalla says, the announcement is the continuation of the same policy more or less...the announcement itself fuels the discord. It already is creating discord. Even if it takes years to move the embassy, or it gets put off...the announcement has just upset the apple cart. And that is Trump. He makes a point of being contentious, not diplomatic. Just because he can make waves, it seems he will.That's a problem. He's the most high power troll in the world.

I don't recall a more controversial , divisive, president in my lifetime. Not hotheads quite like this. Maybe in my grandparents' generation. That freaks me and a whole lot of people out...Graeme, try to understand that, yes, Trump's ways and behaviour are, from the perspective of now, in the immediate sense.....a problem.
 
Last edited:
revsdd said:
OK. I'm trying not to giggle.

Thankfully, I haven't lived in a manse for quite a number of years, but as I recall donations were generally used to do maintenance on the manse and only when absolutely necessary. I well remember the day that our water heater sprung a leak, we had water spreading quickly throughout the basement and the chair of the manse Committee decided that wrapping duct tape around the leak would solve the problem - because she didn't want to authorize spending any money. I also remember the fridge that was literally falling apart due to rust - but it still worked, so nobody thought replacing it was a priority. There was the washing machine that had sprung an oil leak and was leaving oil stains on our clothes - in a small Newfoundland fishing outport that had no fancy convenience like a laundromat to go to. Took a bit of time to get that worked out. (Actually, my wife almost left me over that one.) Somebody once donated a raggedy old rusty orange rug that they didn't want anymore because it was frayed and faded and ugly and in generally awful condition but decided that it was good enough for the minister and his family - and the Manse Committee decided to accept it because they didn't want to offend this "generous" giver - so we got stuck with it. For several years until we moved. As I recall, though, there was very little money spent by parishioners on "decorating the manse." Seasonal decorations were provided by us. I also recall paying myself for wall paper and paint just because of how horribly one manse was decorated - and the several layers of wall paper we found that must have gone back who knows how many years years because nobody could be bothered to actually remove the previous wall paper before putting up new wall paper - which is why we finally just threw up our hands and just did it ourselves - properly. Yeah. Good days. Those days of luxuriously decorated manses.

In any event since I don't object to a small portion of public funds being used to decorate the White House, I also don't object to a small portion of church donations being used for maintenance on a manse. However, if the manse budget starts to approach the percentage of the church budget that the US military budget is of the total US budget then its a problem.
Click to expand...
I've spent a couple Christmases past, really broke, and I never objected to city hall paying for lights and decorations on the streets. It cheers up the winter. It's even nice to look at when you're miserable. I can attest to that. Even while broke and feeling down, I spent a few bucks on some dollar store/ thrift store sparkle to put in my room.

Really, I don't think it's Christmas decorating that's really getting in the way of feeding the poor - it's possible for governments to afford both - and even the soup kitchens and church food ministries put up some decorations.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top