TRUMP - Some people think......... How do you feel?

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Russia has not killed 20,000,000 people all over the world since 1945. The U.S. has. And before that, it was Britain and other Europeans powers who had been mass murdering and plundering nations all over the world.
There are no good guys and bad guys, only people.
 
Jae said:
What's the difference between multiculturalism and liberal multiculturalism?
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It's seen as a "liberal" value particularly in the alt-right context. It's derided as a liberal value by the alt-right. Liberal is a dirty word too. Multiculturalism and liberalism are only valued insofar as their efforts to undermine those values.
 
Kimmio said:
It's seen as a "liberal" value particularly in the alt-right context. It's derided as a liberal value by the alt-right. Liberal is a dirty word too. Multiculturalism and liberalism are only valued insofar as their efforts to undermine those values.
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Maybe it's seen by you and, well, other liberals as being a "liberal" value. I don't see it that way. I deeply value multiculturalism and I'm certainly not a liberal.
 
Ebenezer Scrooge was a classic "liberal" before he was converted.

Liberal involves some laisser faire and letting people live their lives as they wish.
 
Northwind said:
Ebenezer Scrooge was a classic "liberal" before he was converted.

Liberal involves some laisser faire and letting people live their lives as they wish.
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Live their lives as they wish... slaughter their unborn children... kill off their family members if they become too sickly...
 
Thank you for two examples of failure to understand liberal and conservative. in fact, the words liberal and conservative have been misused for so long, I'm not sure they have any meaning left.
JAE, do you have any evidence that 'liberals' abort babies more than 'conservatives do?

And the U.S. is now starving millions to death in Yemen. That includes pregnant women, their unborn babies and born babies. Does that mean the American government is liberal? It also means killing off family members as they get too sickly.

Where are are the fundamentalists demonstrating against this?

There are babies with horrible and fatal birth defects still being born and dying as babies as a result of Agent Orange dropped by the U.S. Attended any demonstrations against that?

Conservative, whatever it might mean, does not mean narrow and conformist and self-righteous.
 
Graeme Decarie said:
Thank you for two examples of failure to understand liberal and conservative. in fact, the words liberal and conservative have been misused for so long, I'm not sure they have any meaning left.
JAE, do you have any evidence that 'liberals' abort babies more than 'conservatives do?

And the U.S. is now starving millions to death in Yemen. That includes pregnant women, their unborn babies and born babies. Does that mean the American government is liberal? It also means killing off family members as they get too sickly.

Where are are the fundamentalists demonstrating against this?

There are babies with horrible and fatal birth defects still being born and dying as babies as a result of Agent Orange dropped by the U.S. Attended any demonstrations against that?

Conservative, whatever it might mean, does not mean narrow and conformist and self-righteous.
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It'd be resonably easy to show that more liberal leaders are "pro-choice" than are conservative ones. ;)
 
Graeme Decarie said:
Russia has not killed 20,000,000 people all over the world since 1945. The U.S. has. And before that, it was Britain and other Europeans powers who had been mass murdering and plundering nations all over the world.
There are no good guys and bad guys, only people.
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The Russians have a poor record as well. Including mass rapes as a tool of terror and barbarism. (Warning, these historical accounts are disturbing)

From the Guardian:
'They raped every German female from eight to 80'

That said, I am not sure that the discussion should be who was historically worse in wars around the world. If I had to choose overall which country treats its own people better, which country's government has more rights and freedoms and a better human rights record domestically, now - it would not be Russia. The U.S.(moreso) and Canada have room for improvement but I am glad to not live in Russia.
 
All armies rape women. ooo - but that's so muchnastier than murdering 20 million people to please big capital, and now starving millions to death in Yemen.

If you can prove that liberals favour abortion more than conservatives do, then prove it.
But first - shouldn't you find out what those words mean?
And may I point out that Conservatives did NOT favour medicare in Canada. That came from the 'liberal' CCF.
 
Graeme Decarie said:
All armies rape women. ooo - but that's so muchnastier than murdering 20 million people to please big capital, and now starving millions to death in Yemen.

If you can prove that liberals favour abortion more than conservatives do, then prove it.
But first - shouldn't you find out what those words mean?
And may I point out that Conservatives did NOT favour medicare in Canada. That came from the 'liberal' CCF.
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Rape as an instrument of war, including soldiers gang raping, is still undeniably brutal - and for the women living with those scars, the PTSD - many wishing they had died instead. Just don't try to tell me that Russian soldiers, and the governments that have condoned their behaviour are any kinder or more compassionate than the US's. I don't believe that. War is ugly, period. And the Russians are guilty too. And their domestic situation is not better for the people, now, than the west's.
 
Graeme Decarie said:
I never said the russians were more compassionate. You were the one suggesting Americans were more compassionate. And you have given no evidence of that.
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No. But I think the domestic policies now and human rights abuses and lack of certain basic freedoms - including freedom of the press - in Russia is - or was until Trump - is worse for the people. And that they are being held up as a paragon of white male masculinity, to be followed, by alt-right Trump supporters is rather unsettling.

And Russia's empire is not doing so well - no better than the U.S. - they are building up nationalistic pride hysteria, through state propaganda, with little to really back it up - just to set the stage for their divide and conquer tactics, in my opinion.

As for abortion you'll have to ask Jae. I wasn't discussing that.
 
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I was aiming that question of abortion at Jae.
I have never defended the policies of russia - so why correct me on what I never said?
As for a free press, we don't have one. Almost all of our commercial news media is propaganda. We are NOT different from Russia. We are NOT less brutal. We are NOT less greedy. We are NOT less murderous.
And Russia is using divide and conquer tactics? Oh? and who are they dividing and conquering?
We face problems which we will not solve by saying the other side is just as bad.

Putin, at least, does not pray with his cabinet as Trump does.

Ever noticed the similarities between extremist Moslems and western Christians (especially the fundamentalists)? Both call on God or Allah to help them in their killing and plundering. Both are convinced they are on the only path to heaven.
 
Graeme Decarie said:
I was aiming that question of abortion at Jae.
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Thing is Graeme, since you've already said, "If you can prove that liberals favour abortion more than conservatives do, then prove it. But first - shouldn't you find out what those words mean?" I am not going to take time to prove to you that which I have earlier said. Have a good afternoon.
 
Graeme Decarie said:
I was aiming that question of abortion at Jae.
I have never defended the policies of russia - so why correct me on what I never said?
As for a free press, we don't have one. Almost all of our commercial news media is propaganda. We are NOT different from Russia. We are NOT less brutal. We are NOT less greedy. We are NOT less murderous.
And Russia is using divide and conquer tactics? Oh? and who are they dividing and conquering?
We face problems which we will not solve by saying the other side is just as bad.

Putin, at least, does not pray with his cabinet as Trump does.

Ever noticed the similarities between extremist Moslems and western Christians (especially the fundamentalists)? Both call on God or Allah to help them in their killing and plundering. Both are convinced they are on the only path to heaven.
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Their MO is to divide and conquer Europe. I've been doing some reading. There is a battle of loyalties going on in Central-eastern Europe over joining the EU. Russia would like to break up the EU and take back those countries. If they try to do that, war is highly likely. The U.S. has, under Trump, cancelled a bunch of aid for maintaining democratic institutions for stability in those countries - and without it they will need to rely more on Russia.

Several countries in the Balkans (where world wars and some pretty astonishingly ugly civil wars have been known to start) have been working toward establishing EU membership - it would be healthy for them democratically and economically - they're struggling and Russia wants to undermine that. And unfortunately they are geographically situated right in the middle. And if the U.S. drops them but Russia wants their loyalty but not to actually support them (like Eastern Ukraine), then the forecast doesn't look good.
 
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