Northwind
Stationary nomad.
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Yes, and we have to be open to views other than our own. I don't know about you, but I've learned more from people whose views are very different from mine than from those who think as I do.
Thoughts re allegations re Kavanaugh
- Thread starter Pinga
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Yes, and we have to be open to views other than our own. I don't know about you, but I've learned more from people whose views are very different from mine than from those who think as I do.
Northwind
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That's not likely possible. You'll have to exercise self-control. As do I. It is obvious we are unable to communicate effectively with each other.
By the way, the Olympics is a good way to bankrupt a city and drive up housing prices that are deadly to poor people.
Yeah. I am. The description I wrote is what fascism is.
revsdd
Well-Known Member
Halbrook? You're citing Halbrook? Well, you're right that his "Gun Control In The Third Reich" is the bible for the myth.
First on Halbrook and his book. Halbrook is a right wing (nothing inherently wrong with that, by the way - I've been known to support conservative candidates from time to time - I even voted for Stephen Harper's Conservatives in 2006) lawyer who's a propagandist for the National Rifle Association and has represented them in a number of court cases. He likes trotting out the "Nazis confiscated all the guns" fairy tale to - as I said - instill fear and whip up the Second Amendment crowd. He wrote this book that was published by a right wing anti-gun control think tank and that received rave reviews from right wing anti-gun control publications. That doesn't make it accurate.
In the Wikipedia link you cite (you brought up Wikipedia, not me) there's a link to an article on gun control in the Third Reich. It points out that guns in Germany were heavily restricted by the Allies after World War I, and that serious gun control measures were put in place by the Weimar Republic in 1920. Mind you, in many important respects they failed because of the rise of both right and left wing heavily armed paramiltary groups (like the nazi brownshirts) - but for the average German (not involved with the various militias) guns were hard to come by. Weimar loosened some of the laws in 1928, but put in place an onerous licensing system that required multiple permits, and most people couldn't be bothered. Hitler loosened those controls, and the 1928 law was finally superseded by a 1938 (ie, Nazi) law. The Wikipedia article does a pretty good job of summarizing the Nazi law: it continued restrictions only for handuguns, but not long guns or ammunition, it lowered the legal age for possessing a firearm to 18, and the number of permits required were reduced and they only had to be renewed every 3 years instead of annually. The 1938 law was the culmination of a series of administrative measures Hitler had taken since assuming power that eroded the old and more restrictive Weimar gun laws. The main restriction he kept in place was the one forbidding Jews from owning guns.
Why did Hitler ease gun restrictions? Probably several reasons, but one of the most interesting has to do with Herman Goering. Goering held many offices under Hitler. Minister of Aviation, Minister of the Interior for Prussia, Plenopotentiary of the Four Year Economic Plan, President of the Reichstag. He was seen as the Number 2 Nazi, behind Hitler. But he had one other job that he specifically asked Hitler for - one that seemed of no real importance. He was basically put in charge of managing Germany's forests. Why did he want that job? Because Goering was an avid hunter. He loved hunting. He had started hunting as a boy when he would spend time with his godfather - who he loved very much and who was, interestingly enough, Jewish. (Goering was never seen as particularly anti-semitic, at least as Nazis went, and he actually helped a number of Jews escape from Nazi Germany at the request of his wife, who had many Jewish friends from her time in the theatre.) He wanted to promote hunting in Germany. He thought it was good for the national soul. He promoted the establishment of hunting clubs. Thus - easing the restrictions on long guns and ammunition. Hard to hunt without them. Thus lowering the age for gun ownership. He wanted German men of all ages to hunt. He convinced Hitler that long guns should be made available to the public. Thus, reducing the red tape required to acquire and possess firearms. Goering actively lobbied Hitler on this issue.
You probably won't read much about that in Halbrook's book because it doesn't fit the tall tale he promotes. And, in fairness, there hasn't been a lot of work done on Nazi gun laws because it wasn't seen as a particularly important part of the story of the Third Reich - making it fertile territory for anti gun control folks to spin a good yarn about how "the first thing Hitler did was take away the guns." Uh. No. Jews weren't even disarmed. They simply weren't rearmed when gun restrictions were eased.
I do, however, recommend a walk to your local bookstore or library. There are a lot of good books by reputable historians - histories of the Third Reich; biographies of Hitler - that you'll learn a lot from. Be warned - most of them are pretty thick.
Hitler is the go to bogeyman for both the left and the right. When you want to make an extreme point, find a way to fit Hitler in to your narrative, whether it's true or not to show that if you don't agree with me it'll be Hitler and the Nazis all over again. Because people will believe anything about Hitler.
Pontifex Geronimo 13
#walkaway
Is it cheating to bring my walker to the fight?
No it makes it more interesting. I have a friend who reminds me. We were having a fight, probably grade 9 or ten. He had me in a very vulnerable position on the floor in the living room. My only free hand found the leg of the coffee table. I said look out for the coffee table! Pulled it to myself and it nearly knocked him out!
Well, I've never been in a physical fight and I'm not going to start now. It's not my idea of fun. I've been pushed down. But I've never brawled.
Pontifex Geronimo 13
#walkaway
We did it in 1988. It was very good for the city and that is why they are trying to get it again.
blackbelt1961
Well-Known Member
It hasn't worked out too well many places since then. In Vancouver, rents went up and up after the Olympic bid win was announced, and never came down. Just kept going up to insane levels as corrupt investors invested. There were lots of temp jobs. It was festive and wonderful for a couple of weeks but not worth it. Then there were no jobs. Stores in the busiest shopping area of downtown started to become vacant. People who work in retail and hospitality can't afford to live there to serve tourists. If they don't get housing and jobs commensurate to cost of living into in a better place, Vancouver will soon be Detroit. And that was under the BC Liberals (who are conservatives). They did that on their watch while there was already a poverty crisis in the DTES. Bad priorities.
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Pontifex Geronimo 13
#walkaway
BB
Quit going off topic!
Quit going off topic!
blackbelt1961
Well-Known Member
Pontifex Geronimo 13
#walkaway
We can do it!
Liberals are not conservatives.
You are not liberal.
You are one short step from a fascist.
The white male holocaust.
Hillary’s bullets.
A sexist reign of terror.
But at least one more cool runnings olympics.
Ben Shapiro is a dork.
Nope. I want justice, equality, inclusion and peace for everybody and for society's values to turn from the insane greed they're at now.
Pontifex Geronimo 13
#walkaway
Was a dork.
Hillary's a neoliberal and a hawk. I'd rather have a Bernie protégé (just in case he can't live through a term) become POTUS.
blackbelt1961
Well-Known Member
ya but hes my kind of dork
Pontifex Geronimo 13
#walkaway
I know that, but the US made it’s swing into the stupid left, like Britain and Ontario and Quebec and now the pendulum is going to swing right to sanity for a good 8 years. Bernie had his shot and f-ed up. Get over it. Do what Trudeau wants you to do. 8 years of being stoned and voting against progress.
No, you'd be surprised at the Bernie types - many are progressive young women - now getting seats in state and local gov't and they will infuse the house and senate with better democracy. In one or two more election cycles they will be the Democratic Party and they will have a lot of support. millennials are largely progressives. But Fox won't tell you that. They want boys and men to turn fascist. They're fixated on Obama and the Clintons still and pretending there's still a competition with them because it gets their base all riled up.
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