Does the Holy Spirit emit light?
The Transfiguration Mark 9:2-9
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Mendalla
Happy headbanging ape!!
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Honestly? I'm with Mystic. There's no Holy Spirit there unless you read it in. The Son and the Father would seem to both be present (Jesus transfigured = Son, Voice from the cloud = Father) but no clear Spirit. I guess you could read it that the Spirit was the power behind Jesus' transformation?
When preachers ignore the implied subtleties of the text's intent, they generally impose their tired agenda talking points in a way that makes their sermons repetitive to the point of becoming lethally dull. On the evangelical side this means too many sermons that insert the need to get saved where this is irrelevant to textual intent. The audience tends to get numbed to the Gospel from overexposure! On the progressive side, this means too many sermons on the pursuit of social justice, community outreach programs, and the needs of the poor. Thus, the UCCan national executive who used to drive down to my church in Washington told me that the sermons of the UCCan churches he often visited were ghastly ineffective. By contrast, my Pentecostal church has aggressive outreach programs, but seldom preaches on progressive talking points. Yet my church has grown from the lily-white church of my youth into a marvelous multi-ethnic church of 1,700 regular attenders with great programs to integrate and help immigrants from all over the world. Their policy? Don't talk about it too much; just do it.
Growing up in a Pentecostal church in Winnipeg, I noticed an interesting pattern. Sunday evening service was always evangelistic, climaxing in altar calls to come forward and accept Christ as Lord and Savior. The Sunday morning service always featured inspirational and practical sermons on how to live the Christian life. In later years the pastor decided to give altar calls during the Sunday morning services, despite the absence of any evangelistic appeal. To my amazement and delight, the altar was lined with more inquirers wanting to become Christians in response to this approach than to the evening evangelistic sermons. Sermons well focused on biblical texts without intrusive inserted evangelistic themes were far more effective in securing conversions.
Growing up in a Pentecostal church in Winnipeg, I noticed an interesting pattern. Sunday evening service was always evangelistic, climaxing in altar calls to come forward and accept Christ as Lord and Savior. The Sunday morning service always featured inspirational and practical sermons on how to live the Christian life. In later years the pastor decided to give altar calls during the Sunday morning services, despite the absence of any evangelistic appeal. To my amazement and delight, the altar was lined with more inquirers wanting to become Christians in response to this approach than to the evening evangelistic sermons. Sermons well focused on biblical texts without intrusive inserted evangelistic themes were far more effective in securing conversions.
Mendalla
Happy headbanging ape!!
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This does not surprise me. Evangelistic themes are actually going to put a certain segment of people, me included, into a mindset that isn't conducive to responding to an altar call or even coming back for another service. At least that was reaction when I did attend an evening service at a pentecostal church back in my youth. Whereas this:
Is going to get the attention of people who may not otherwise respond to those evangelical themes.
Thomas Aquinas suggested, the father in the voice, the son in the man and the spirit in the shining cloud.
paradox3
Peanuts Fan
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The text has the clothes shining, not the cloud. The cloud merely covers them (v. 7)
unsafe
Well-Known Member
I say -----The Bible is a Spiritual Book -----you can try and read it from a human mind perspective but there will always be A Spiritual Message behind all Scripture --your human mind cannot interpret the Spiritual meaning -----
Anyone can read the Logos Written word and give their human interpretation of it ----but only the Holy Spirit can give you the Rhema word ---The Spoken word ---which is the message behind the Logos word -----
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Interesting Spiritual take on the Transfiguration of Jesus
www.blueletterbible.org
The Transfiguration was the glorification of the human body of Jesus. On this occasion His body underwent a change in form, a metamorphosis, so that it shone as brightly as the sun.
At the time of the Transfiguration, Jesus' earthly ministry was coming to a close. He had acknowledged that He was the Messiah and predicted His death and resurrection. Now He was to reveal, to a select few, His divine glory.
The Bible gives this account:
Years Later Peter Recalled The Event
Some years later Simon Peter would write of this event:
Jesus Is The Son Of God
The Transfiguration provides further evidence that Jesus was the divine Son of God. It is not coincidental that this happened soon after Jesus had acknowledged Himself to be the Christ, the one who left heaven's glory to come to earth.
Now three of His disciples were to get a glimpse of that glory.
The appearance of Moses and Elijah with Jesus is highly significant.
The name Moses was equated with the Old Testament law that God had given to the people.
Jesus came and fulfilled the commandments of the law and did the things the law could not do, that is, to provide an answer for the problem of sin.
The law pointed out the problem; Jesus gave the solution.
Elijah was an outstanding figure in the Old Testament. He was a great prophet and his appearance with Moses on the Mount of Transfiguration testified that Jesus fulfilled the prophets, as well as the law.
The voice of God the Father gave further confirmation of the calling and Sonship of Jesus.
He acknowledged that Jesus had pleased Him in the things He had said and done.
It Represented His Coming Kingdom
The Transfiguration scene of Jesus is a representation of His coming kingdom in its fullness.
Jesus Himself said to His disciples.
The Transfiguration occurred with Jesus and three of His disciples - Peter, James, and John. Moses and Elijah miraculously appeared with Jesus. At the foot of the mountain were the remainder of Jesus' disciples and the multitudes.
When one considers the various individuals and groups involved, it paints a marvelous picture of Jesus' coming kingdom.
Jesus Himself
First, there is the Lord Jesus in His glorified body.
Moses
Moses, in his glorified body, represented the saved that will enter God's kingdom through death.
Elijah
Elijah never died. He represents those believers who enter the kingdom of God by the translation or the rapture of the church.
Peter, James, and John in their natural bodies depict those Jewish believers who will enter the coming kingdom.
The Various Nations That Will Make Up The Kingdom
The multitude of people, left at the base of the mountain, represent the various nations who will enter the kingdom of God in their natural or non-glorified bodies.
Summary
The Transfiguration is significant because it was the glorification of the body of Jesus. Those with Him saw Jesus in His glory. The appearance of Moses and Elijah testified that Jesus was the one of whom the law and prophets spoke. The approving testimony of God the Father further confirmed the identity of Jesus.
In the Transfiguration of Jesus we have the various elements of the coming kingdom represented. There is the glorified King, those who will come into the kingdom through death, those who will come into the kingdom through the transformation of their bodies at the rapture of the church, those Jewish believers who will enter into the millennial reign of Christ in their earthly bodies, as well as the people from the various nations who will also enter into the millennium in non-glorified bodies.
Anyone can read the Logos Written word and give their human interpretation of it ----but only the Holy Spirit can give you the Rhema word ---The Spoken word ---which is the message behind the Logos word -----
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Interesting Spiritual take on the Transfiguration of Jesus
What Was the Significance of Jesus' Transfiguration?
The Transfiguration was the glorification of the human body of Jesus. On this occasion His body underwent a change in form, a metamorphosis, so that it shone
www.blueletterbible.org
Don Stewart :: What Was the Significance of Jesus' Transfiguration?
The Transfiguration was the glorification of the human body of Jesus. On this occasion His body underwent a change in form, a metamorphosis, so that it shone as brightly as the sun.
At the time of the Transfiguration, Jesus' earthly ministry was coming to a close. He had acknowledged that He was the Messiah and predicted His death and resurrection. Now He was to reveal, to a select few, His divine glory.
The Bible gives this account:
Jesus told Peter, James, and John not to tell anyone about this until after He had risen from the dead.
Years Later Peter Recalled The Event
Some years later Simon Peter would write of this event:
Jesus Is The Son Of God
The Transfiguration provides further evidence that Jesus was the divine Son of God. It is not coincidental that this happened soon after Jesus had acknowledged Himself to be the Christ, the one who left heaven's glory to come to earth.
Now three of His disciples were to get a glimpse of that glory.
The appearance of Moses and Elijah with Jesus is highly significant.
The name Moses was equated with the Old Testament law that God had given to the people.
Jesus came and fulfilled the commandments of the law and did the things the law could not do, that is, to provide an answer for the problem of sin.
The law pointed out the problem; Jesus gave the solution.
Elijah was an outstanding figure in the Old Testament. He was a great prophet and his appearance with Moses on the Mount of Transfiguration testified that Jesus fulfilled the prophets, as well as the law.
The voice of God the Father gave further confirmation of the calling and Sonship of Jesus.
He acknowledged that Jesus had pleased Him in the things He had said and done.
It Represented His Coming Kingdom
The Transfiguration scene of Jesus is a representation of His coming kingdom in its fullness.
Jesus Himself said to His disciples.
The Transfiguration occurred with Jesus and three of His disciples - Peter, James, and John. Moses and Elijah miraculously appeared with Jesus. At the foot of the mountain were the remainder of Jesus' disciples and the multitudes.
When one considers the various individuals and groups involved, it paints a marvelous picture of Jesus' coming kingdom.
Jesus Himself
First, there is the Lord Jesus in His glorified body.
He will rule in His coming kingdom in His glorified body.
Moses
Moses, in his glorified body, represented the saved that will enter God's kingdom through death.
Elijah
Elijah never died. He represents those believers who enter the kingdom of God by the translation or the rapture of the church.
Jesus' Disciples
Peter, James, and John in their natural bodies depict those Jewish believers who will enter the coming kingdom.
The Various Nations That Will Make Up The Kingdom
The multitude of people, left at the base of the mountain, represent the various nations who will enter the kingdom of God in their natural or non-glorified bodies.
Summary
The Transfiguration is significant because it was the glorification of the body of Jesus. Those with Him saw Jesus in His glory. The appearance of Moses and Elijah testified that Jesus was the one of whom the law and prophets spoke. The approving testimony of God the Father further confirmed the identity of Jesus.
In the Transfiguration of Jesus we have the various elements of the coming kingdom represented. There is the glorified King, those who will come into the kingdom through death, those who will come into the kingdom through the transformation of their bodies at the rapture of the church, those Jewish believers who will enter into the millennial reign of Christ in their earthly bodies, as well as the people from the various nations who will also enter into the millennium in non-glorified bodies.
Mendalla
Happy headbanging ape!!
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See, this is entirely not what I would mean by "spiritual book". To me, a "spiritual book" is one that requires the human mind to interpret the meaning, to try to understand the words and concepts by thinking about them and learning about them. Of course, I am starting from a more humanist standpoint where we can actively seek out the spiritual rather than waiting for it to come to us. Sometimes it will just come to us as inspiration, but sometimes we find it.
jimkenney12
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Not sure what Mystic means by implied subtleties of the text's intent. This sounds like taking a personal agenda into interpreting the intent of the text, meaning the author's intent. I will mention what some have said is the intent for a text, but try to focus on the actual text. The transfiguration text describes the event and seems intended to validate the importance of obeying Jesus as much as believing in him. Without engaging what the experience might have been like for the disciples, it is just more words.
I like Mystic's description of the successful evangelism based on connecting scripture to living out our faith as that is my primary goal in my preaching.
I like Mystic's description of the successful evangelism based on connecting scripture to living out our faith as that is my primary goal in my preaching.
e. g.
(1) The nuances of the original Hebrew and Greek that are not translated into English.
(a) the fact that the word translated faith in both Hebrew ("amunah") and Greek ("pistis") a;so connotes "faithfulness."
(b) the fact that in Greek oracle language sighs and groans reflect unconscious messages from the divine, of which the needy recipient is unaware:
"Likewise, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we don't know how to pray as we ought. nut that very Spirit intercedes for us with groans (or "sighs") tii deep for (conscious intentional) words (Romans 8;26)."
(2) The assumed cultural context that shapes the application:
(a) Taken literally, this Gospel statement is transparently false; and the interpreter needs to learn now Jesus' use of Semitic hyperbole helps uncover the intended meaning:
"Have faith in God. If you say to this mountain, "Be taken up and cast into the sea," and do not doubt in your heart, but believe that what you say will come to pass, it will be done for you (Mark 11:23-23)."
Ancient rabbinic Judaism often uses Semitic hyperbole to gain attention by dramatizing its point. For example, rabbis used the expression of mountain-
moving faith to the manageable task of overcoming barriers created by the strictness of the Mosaic Law.
(b) "Jesus answered her (the
What imbues this text with practical meaning is an awareness that in Hebrew "living water" is an idiom that refers to flowing water.
In Israel's semi-arid climate still water is typically stagnant, polluted, and therefore undrinkable, whereas flowing streams are typically drinkable and refreshing for bathing. So to experience the Spirit as "living water" means the spontaneous flow of edifying cleansing thoughts that refresh us and do not derive from an intentional pattern of thought. The same principle can be applied to NT commands to "pray in the Spirit." which otherwise seem like
meaningless jargon.
BetteTheRed
Resident Heretic
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Compare the words spoken by the voice in the cloud in this passage with the voice that came from the dove-like Spirit that descended on Jesus in Mark 1:10-11.
"10 And just as he was coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens torn apart and the Spirit descending like a dove upon him. 11 And a voice came from the heavens, “You are my Son, the Beloved;[a] with you I am well pleased.”
"10 And just as he was coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens torn apart and the Spirit descending like a dove upon him. 11 And a voice came from the heavens, “You are my Son, the Beloved;[a] with you I am well pleased.”
Good point! But apparently only Jesus' vision saw the dove and heard that heavenly voice. So maybe the spiritual application is the limited value of hearsay testimonials compared with direct experience of the divine. Prior to the Transfiguration, Peter has just discerned that Jesus is the Messiah, but
then Peter's faith is undermined by Jesus' insistence that His messianic mission involves martyrdom. So Peter needs a direct hearing of the baptismal heavenly voice.
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Thus deep reading ... and you are marshalled into it as politics and don't even know you're political ... few reside in the medium because both poles dislike anything else and destroy everything ... thus everything as God is departed due to mortal destructive trends ... it goes against the know thyself directive! Subsequently a place for folk that wish not to partake in knowledge and wisdom as a sophisticated activity ...
But few regard it ... and it goes like a flash! "Beyond me?" That's out there a stretch for those that declare they know everything ... and they get swept into it!
It may appear as an irrational essence ...
Kind of marshals one into a thinking muddle ... a swamp separate from the winning mode because this can go on indefinitely!
As always like life this is ridiculous with all the new wants and clouds ... not a satisfied sl in the lot ... and few learned as they we too stressed teaching ... and they wandered like lost doggies ... on the lone prayer AH? It descended from the prior ... Kurious? If you really wanted to know there is prying ... Molly was a tough one to crack ... hard case?
jimkenney12
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Sunny and cold here. It is supposed to snow later today.
In the struggle with absolutes and such power beyond suggestion ... is an abstract power potential as humbled?
Gedon wit yah said the high and mighty that in the good tongue of the Welch is just a wish for a fine day when the days are often deterriorating due to poor appreciation ... it is logos, the idealism of word goes off into the dark and unseen ...
There are powers that cannot stand ordinary connections and communications ... these said to beyond mystery! Thus mute bubbles ... NU beans turned out? Tis a dark art ...
Gedon wit yah said the high and mighty that in the good tongue of the Welch is just a wish for a fine day when the days are often deterriorating due to poor appreciation ... it is logos, the idealism of word goes off into the dark and unseen ...
There are powers that cannot stand ordinary connections and communications ... these said to beyond mystery! Thus mute bubbles ... NU beans turned out? Tis a dark art ...
paradox3
Peanuts Fan
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Did you mean this for another thread?