Trained wrecks in sky???? Folly ... angel stuff!
The Terms of Divine Engagement
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Trained wrecks in sky???? Folly ... angel stuff!
Translation: You seek only comments that confirm your spiritual biases and won't even consider the possibility that your cerebral approach is emphatically rep
repudiated by both Jesus and Paul.
Thus, you exemplify my complaint about the close-mindedness of most agnostics I've encountered. You won't even read reasoned challenges to your claims about a lack of your arbitrary notion of "oroof.." Thus, productive dialogue with you and your ilk is virtually iompossible. Sigh! Well, I'll continue my elaboration of the biblical priorities on how to relate to God as a witness to the many lurkers who visit this site.
Delightful Life
M&M, Cascadian Lovers
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Gazooks! A brethern used another hoary word, ilk! Better than a mooncalf by more than a fortnight, forsooth!
Plus she is Canadian, so is good with humour :3 It can be subtle
Plus she is Canadian, so is good with humour :3 It can be subtle
paradox3
Peanuts Fan
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Jesus called us to love God with all of our heart, all of our soul and all of our mind.
I daresay (another hoary word for @Delightful Life) Jesus would have appreciated a balanced approach.
I daresay (another hoary word for @Delightful Life) Jesus would have appreciated a balanced approach.
In a prayer Jesus actually thanks God for "hiding" key spiritual truth from "the wise and Intelligent," who seek proof, and instead revealing it to the mystical discernment of "babes." Paul chides the intrellectual's proof-oriented quest with his question, "Where is the debater of thus age?" and celebrates the fact that "not many... who are wise by human standards" can hear God's "call" on their lives. And why can't they?" Because "the natural man does not receive the things of God... because they are spiritually discerned." In other words, a mystical encounter and relationship with Christ is the heart of the divine terms of engagement. Thus, Paul challenges the Corinthians about this mystical relationship: "Test yourselves. Do you not realize that Jesus Christ is in you?"
So what is the path forward for the honest agnostic seeker? St. Augustine succinctly summarizes the simplicity of this biblical path, as will be explained in my next planned post. (Chapter and verse can be provided for these statements, if requested.0
Delightful Life
M&M, Cascadian Lovers
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Our Lord could have used a proofreader and a PR Manager :3
Delightful Life
M&M, Cascadian Lovers
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And a stuntperson or body double :3
jimkenney12
Well-Known Member
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The claim that there is a right kind of spiritual quest to have a personal relationship with God troubles me. There are many stories of God breaking into the lives of people who were not on a quest for a spiritual relationship. The story of Saul's encounter with the risen Christ comes to mind.
There may be a right way to find Mystic's God.
There may be a right way to find Mystic's God.
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You seem to have overlooked this disclaimer in post #6: "Of course, God is sovereign and can respond at any time in any way."
And will do nothing as popularly believed nothing is more peaceful! A thought from the thin domain ... short also ...
Is love and will a sharp point to those proposing imperial matters and manners whereas democracy shall be found delinquent?
In the deficiency however ... Picaroons are exposed and the bull is tormented ... real bulls are never discouraged ... the go to the end while some take relief in the field as in hyperbole! These are extensive ... because of nothing that we declare to know much about ...
Love is like that we you lose it through gross irrationality! Get it? It must be processed through and through as iteration repeated ... a device of psyche sort!
Thus too had an attempt to bury it ... and so it went down ... irrationality wins and the burned earth rises up ... stripped of resources! Meltdown ...
Temperature Rising? It is about a shipment out of Hali-FAX ... Big Bang ... result of ignorant struggles, conflicts and wars; over which nothing can be cured because of the gross wills of the willful ... there are overwhelming ...
After that a mess and further chaos ... just watch! Real people like that ... then there are those disordered by in in their personality Venn Diagram! Venn dead they become a small spot ... like letting the cat out at night! Many hate that work ...
Is love and will a sharp point to those proposing imperial matters and manners whereas democracy shall be found delinquent?
In the deficiency however ... Picaroons are exposed and the bull is tormented ... real bulls are never discouraged ... the go to the end while some take relief in the field as in hyperbole! These are extensive ... because of nothing that we declare to know much about ...
Love is like that we you lose it through gross irrationality! Get it? It must be processed through and through as iteration repeated ... a device of psyche sort!
Thus too had an attempt to bury it ... and so it went down ... irrationality wins and the burned earth rises up ... stripped of resources! Meltdown ...
Temperature Rising? It is about a shipment out of Hali-FAX ... Big Bang ... result of ignorant struggles, conflicts and wars; over which nothing can be cured because of the gross wills of the willful ... there are overwhelming ...
After that a mess and further chaos ... just watch! Real people like that ... then there are those disordered by in in their personality Venn Diagram! Venn dead they become a small spot ... like letting the cat out at night! Many hate that work ...
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A burning longing of a sustained spiritual quest is the key to the biblical terms of divine engagement:
"Keep on searching and you will find (Matthew 7:7)."
God promises such a quest will succeed if it is sustained and passionate enough:
"If you seek me with all your heart, I WILL LET YOU FIND ME (Jeremiah 29:13-14)."
But perseverance is essential because unknown factors like an inappropriate spiritual atmosphere can delay God's response:
"Seek the Lord while He may be found; call upon Him while He is near (Isaiah 55:6)."
Spiritual burn-out ("the foolish virgins'" oil lamps--Matt. 25;8, 12) can prevent an intimate connection with Christ when His presence is delayed.
Jesus' image of divine engagement is being known by Him in an intimate connection. Thus, the bridegroom (Jesus) tells the "burned out" virgins:
'"Truly I tell you, I do not know you."
Similarly. many who minister mightily in Jesus' name do so for naught because they have failed the terms of divine engagement that require an intimate connection with Him. Hence, Jesus' response: "I will declare to them: "I never knew you: depart from me (7:21-23)."
So Jesus thanks God that this key point "is hidden" from the proof-seeking "wise and intelligent," but is divinely revealed to the simple (Matt. 11:25-27).
Notice how Paul corrects himself, so that the terms of divine engagement reflect this need for an intimate connection which one is known by the divine:
"Now that you have come to know God, OR RATHER be known by God...(Gal. 4:9)."
Similarly, "Anyone who loves God is known by Him (not "knows God"--1 Cor. 8:3)."
But Paul worries that the Corinthian quest for God has not resulted in an authentic experience. So he challenges the to verify this intimate connection:
'Test yourselves: do you not realize that Jesus Christ is in you (2 Cor. 13:5)?"
"Thus, Paul disdains the quest for "proof" of "the debaters of this age" in 1 Corinthians 1:20 because
"The natural man does not receive the things of God. Neither can he understand them; for they are spiritually discerned (2:14)."
"Keep on searching and you will find (Matthew 7:7)."
God promises such a quest will succeed if it is sustained and passionate enough:
"If you seek me with all your heart, I WILL LET YOU FIND ME (Jeremiah 29:13-14)."
But perseverance is essential because unknown factors like an inappropriate spiritual atmosphere can delay God's response:
"Seek the Lord while He may be found; call upon Him while He is near (Isaiah 55:6)."
Spiritual burn-out ("the foolish virgins'" oil lamps--Matt. 25;8, 12) can prevent an intimate connection with Christ when His presence is delayed.
Jesus' image of divine engagement is being known by Him in an intimate connection. Thus, the bridegroom (Jesus) tells the "burned out" virgins:
'"Truly I tell you, I do not know you."
Similarly. many who minister mightily in Jesus' name do so for naught because they have failed the terms of divine engagement that require an intimate connection with Him. Hence, Jesus' response: "I will declare to them: "I never knew you: depart from me (7:21-23)."
So Jesus thanks God that this key point "is hidden" from the proof-seeking "wise and intelligent," but is divinely revealed to the simple (Matt. 11:25-27).
Notice how Paul corrects himself, so that the terms of divine engagement reflect this need for an intimate connection which one is known by the divine:
"Now that you have come to know God, OR RATHER be known by God...(Gal. 4:9)."
Similarly, "Anyone who loves God is known by Him (not "knows God"--1 Cor. 8:3)."
But Paul worries that the Corinthian quest for God has not resulted in an authentic experience. So he challenges the to verify this intimate connection:
'Test yourselves: do you not realize that Jesus Christ is in you (2 Cor. 13:5)?"
"Thus, Paul disdains the quest for "proof" of "the debaters of this age" in 1 Corinthians 1:20 because
"The natural man does not receive the things of God. Neither can he understand them; for they are spiritually discerned (2:14)."
I love St. Augustine's maxim: "Do not seek to understand in order to believe, but believe so that you may understand.”
The quest to gain proof of spiritual truth, is the booby prize because, in Billy Graham's words, "it provides just enough spirituality to inoculate you against the real thing." The real thing of course is the intimate personal relationship with Christ that corrects one's presuppositional network in a way that makes true spiritual understanding possible. So we don't seek to understand with the hope to achieve faith; rather, we passionately, but provisionally act on the assumption that God rewards a relentless longing for a self-authenticating encounter with the divine.
For Vince (see post #1) that quest took only one church visit that ended years of anti-Christian polemic on skeptic websites. For others, like atheist C. S. Lewis, it took years of unconscious divine prodding. The climax came in 2 stages. (1) Lewis was riding a bus when he became obsessed with the image of
himself as a lobster reluctant to escape his shell. The next day he was driven to Whipsnade Zoo. Lewis says that when he got in the car. he didn't believe Jesus was the Son of God, but by the time he arrived at the zoo, he did! Yet he wasn't even thinking of the matter during the ride!
During this spiritual quest, we love God with our mind by asking hard questions about whether and to what extent we are being influened by shallow wishful thinking. Accurate discernment takes mindfulness. And we confront the bias of our prior intellectual constructs that have previously sabotaged any thought of a passionate spiritual quest.
The quest to gain proof of spiritual truth, is the booby prize because, in Billy Graham's words, "it provides just enough spirituality to inoculate you against the real thing." The real thing of course is the intimate personal relationship with Christ that corrects one's presuppositional network in a way that makes true spiritual understanding possible. So we don't seek to understand with the hope to achieve faith; rather, we passionately, but provisionally act on the assumption that God rewards a relentless longing for a self-authenticating encounter with the divine.
For Vince (see post #1) that quest took only one church visit that ended years of anti-Christian polemic on skeptic websites. For others, like atheist C. S. Lewis, it took years of unconscious divine prodding. The climax came in 2 stages. (1) Lewis was riding a bus when he became obsessed with the image of
himself as a lobster reluctant to escape his shell. The next day he was driven to Whipsnade Zoo. Lewis says that when he got in the car. he didn't believe Jesus was the Son of God, but by the time he arrived at the zoo, he did! Yet he wasn't even thinking of the matter during the ride!
During this spiritual quest, we love God with our mind by asking hard questions about whether and to what extent we are being influened by shallow wishful thinking. Accurate discernment takes mindfulness. And we confront the bias of our prior intellectual constructs that have previously sabotaged any thought of a passionate spiritual quest.
I have been reading Karl Barth on Evangelism and the power of word in communication and how you can blind then by limiting their transverse exchange of words by secularly blinding them or mentally blinding them through limiting the exchange of Mammon (wealth or Manna). Such leads to chaos because those disrupting lines and threads of complex process ... diminish the greater thing for which there are no words ... that's silence.
Preferred for a Sunday Morning Come Down as worn out from the fantastic tattoos ... dear lord ... One Day at a Time for those committed to simple they shall never understand the complexity and sophistication of greater word ... if all connected! That'd be a huge word and cast a shadow of doubt about hoo understands very large images and projections from nothing but focus ... leads on to consideration of self evidence! Did you know the Hebrew text is all one word ...
If you go back in time in the details Ammon stated that self knowledge was important, or critical ... and that is the way it is with soul ... few know much because of the mortal power of corruption regarding a single word about soul ... powers despise a soul-mine-psyche hole because there essence escapes ... and the psyche is thus psychotic and seems under a pall ... kind 've nebulous ... until some thing shines through ... that's my sunshine ... do you got something lighter to add?
Barth also say we must bear the good news as well as the bad ... and here rationale theology of science departs as some believe they should far better because of effort .. when it is their splashing about blindly that causes turbulence ... it washes badly in the swamps and vales ... di soiled or de 'oeillade as a slick joust as the entire thing goes down? Ass'st! Expect a divided autonomous perspective spread out ... with some thick clusters ...
Preferred for a Sunday Morning Come Down as worn out from the fantastic tattoos ... dear lord ... One Day at a Time for those committed to simple they shall never understand the complexity and sophistication of greater word ... if all connected! That'd be a huge word and cast a shadow of doubt about hoo understands very large images and projections from nothing but focus ... leads on to consideration of self evidence! Did you know the Hebrew text is all one word ...
If you go back in time in the details Ammon stated that self knowledge was important, or critical ... and that is the way it is with soul ... few know much because of the mortal power of corruption regarding a single word about soul ... powers despise a soul-mine-psyche hole because there essence escapes ... and the psyche is thus psychotic and seems under a pall ... kind 've nebulous ... until some thing shines through ... that's my sunshine ... do you got something lighter to add?
Barth also say we must bear the good news as well as the bad ... and here rationale theology of science departs as some believe they should far better because of effort .. when it is their splashing about blindly that causes turbulence ... it washes badly in the swamps and vales ... di soiled or de 'oeillade as a slick joust as the entire thing goes down? Ass'st! Expect a divided autonomous perspective spread out ... with some thick clusters ...