The Sixth Sign (John 11: 1 - 45)

[paradox3]

Always interesting when biblical content makes its way into the mainstream.

 

[Mendalla]

Always interesting when biblical content makes its way into the mainstream.

And the Lazarus story has been very successful that way, I think. I guess the idea of bringing someone back from the dead who isn't a vampire or zombie appeals on some levels.

 

[paradox3]

What about Mary and Martha of Bethany, the sisters of Lazarus?

Is this the same set of sisters who entertain Jesus at their home in Luke's Gospel?

 

[Mendalla]

What about Mary and Martha of Bethany, the sisters of Lazarus?

Is this the same set of sisters who entertain Jesus at their home in Luke's Gospel?

It seems to say so in verses 1 & 2, "Now a certain man was ill, Lazarus of Bethany, the village of Mary and her sister Martha. Mary was the one who anointed the Lord with perfume and wiped his feet with her hair"

 

[Mendalla]

Okay, so here's something weird in John. Not sure it has much importance to the story, but it sure looks like sloppy writing or editing.

In John 11:2, when explaining the situation with Lazarus, it reads, "Mary was the one who anointed the Lord with perfume and wiped his feet with her hair"

But then in John 12:3, describing Jesus having dinner with the now much more alive Lazarus and his sisters, it reads, "Mary took a pound of costly perfume made of pure nard, anointed Jesus’s feet, and wiped them with her hair."

So ... did Mary do this twice?

Is John referencing a future event that he believed the reader would already know about?

Or just an oops? Believe me, I've made mistakes like that in my writing.

Also, I'd like to know what shampoo Mary used to get nard out of her hair.

 

[Redbaron]

It strikes me that, Jesus, in ch. 11, never really enters the village of Bethany, and leaves after Lazarus comes alive, fairly quickly. There is mention of a plot to kill Jesus. Then suddenly, at the beginning of ch. 12, Jesus goes into the village and into the house of Lazarus and his sisters, has a meal like nothing has happened, and then there's the mention of a plot to kill Lazarus.
It seems to me that the entire section from 11:55 to 12:8 has somehow been transposed from some other place, and the wording of 12:9 has been adjusted to reflect the edit. It does seem odd that Jesus, who so shortly ch. 12 begins seems to have sneaked in and out of the area, now comes into the village unconcerned,

For what shampoo Mary might have used? Nard was apparently a sweet smelling perfume. Maybe she just left it in?

 

[Mendalla]

It seems to me that the entire section from 11:55 to 12:8 has somehow been transposed from some other place, and the wording of 12:9 has been adjusted to reflect the edit. It does seem odd that Jesus, who so shortly ch. 12 begins seems to have sneaked in and out of the area, now comes into the village unconcerned,

Yeah, it really feels like a sloppy editing job to me but maybe there was a point to it. Just not sure what it would be.

 

[Redbaron]

Maybe to bring the anointing with nard closer to the events of the Triumphal Entry and the passion story?

 

[Mendalla]

Maybe to bring the anointing with nard closer to the events of the Triumphal Entry and the passion story?

Makes sense. Still a bad editing job, but that would make sense as to why it was moved to 12.

 

[Redbaron]

True. Definitely before the days of Grammarly.

 

[PilgrimsProgress]

It looks like you have a good sermon shaping up. I will be interested to hear where you go with it and how it turns out.

The tombs and the bindings that hold us back are sometimes of our own making.

But sometimes they are systemic.

It went well. The congregation has so little, but they give so much......... Mission churches are quite open with their appreciation of a sermon - unlike mainline churches they burst into applause when the sermon finishes. Unnecessary, but I found it touching. Humour is often a part of the service. The liturgist got muddled up and told me to come up to the lectern and she would introduce me. Someone in the congregation shouted out, "There's another hymn first!"
I shouted back, "Okay, I'll just sit down again." and returned to my seat. The congregation laughed, and I knew then that the sermon would be a success. Like with most things, connection and relationship are paramount......

The sermon emphasized getting a second chance at life - I asked the question "Who, at some time in their life, hasn't wanted a second chance at life? Who knows what it feels like to "stuff up?"........ At a mission church it's not so much about the theology, but about how one can apply the theology to their own life. For instance, I didn't mention how it could be seen as the fore-runner for the resurrection of Jesus - but emphasized about getting a second chance in this life - because Lazarus , Mary and Martha all died eventually....... Many in the congregation have problems with drugs and alcohol as a way of coping with trauma. I acknowledge that trauma often can look for a quick fix to numb the pain, but there are more affective solutions.......

 

[Luce NDs]

Imagine having to go through this again!

Maybe it is because so many missed the detailing the first times around!

 

[paradox3]

Makes sense. Still a bad editing job, but that would make sense as to why it was moved to 12.

There is a story in Luke about a woman anointing Jesus's feet. If John was indeed familiar with the synoptics, it is possible he was referring to this earlier event in John 11.

It's curious though that he tells a similar story in John 12.

John alone has Jesus washing the disciples' feet just before the Passover Feast. Could there be a connection here?

 

[paradox3]

@PilgrimsProgress
Sounds like your service based on this text went very well. Congratulations!

Perhaps you have found some New Life yourself in becoming a lay leader in the church?

 

[jimkenney12]

Most people in worship need insights on applying theology in the readings in their lives, not just in mission churches. Sister Eileen Schuler who, I believe, is at McMaster, taught us at AST that the words we have in the reading are what really matter and what they mean to the people who are there.

 

[paradox3]

I like sermons which grapple with the text AND talk about applying it to our lives.

If there's too much focus on the text it might as well be an academic lecture. If it's too weighted on the application aspect it might as well be a pep talk or a motivational speech.

I don't imagine it is easy to get the right balance. I have never written a sermon in my life but I have written speeches and they are challenging enough.

 

[Mendalla]

I like sermons which grapple with the text AND talk about applying it to our lives.

If there's too much focus on the text it might as well be an academic lecture. If it's too weighted on the application aspect it might as well be a pep talk or a motivational speech.

I don't imagine it is easy to get the right balance. I have never written a sermon in my life but I have written speeches and they are challenging enough.

It gets even harder when you don't have a set text. I've preached on themes ("Life comes back") without actually having a specific text in mind. Usually I do, though, just not a traditional biblical/scriptural one. Poems, readings from non-religious texts that I find inspirational, that sort of thing.

 

[jimkenney12]

Yesterday, I began with setting the context for the Valley of Dry Bones, explained Hevrew uses the same word for wind, breath, snd Spirit, and the key outcome which was the creation of a large part of the Hebrew Bible. I explained how Numbers and Leviticus provided a definition of what it meant to be a Jew and how the other books gave them a history and identity. Together this fostered a sense of identity that has sustained them for 2500 years through many forms of oppression and persecution.

Then I went on to my main theme of how essential the Spirit is to our life and work as individuals and as a faith community snd what we need to do to strengthen our connection to Spirit.

 

[unsafe]

If you read the first part of John 12 ----it gives you when the washing of His feet happened ---so it is a singular event In John 11 and is just re intruding it into john 12 ------and it gives you the reason why it is brought up again ----in verses 4-6 --it is giving a of who Judas really is ----he was a thief and filled with greed

Jesus Anointed at Bethany​

12 Six days before the Passover, Jesus came to Bethany, where Lazarus lived, whom Jesus had raised from the dead. 2 Here a dinner was given in Jesus’ honor. Martha served, while Lazarus was among those reclining at the table with him. 3 Then Mary took about a pint[a] of pure nard, an expensive perfume; she poured it on Jesus’ feet and wiped his feet with her hair. And the house was filled with the fragrance of the perfume.

4 But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray him, objected, 5 “Why wasn’t this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year’s wages.[b]” 6 He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.

 

[paradox3]

I'm not quite following you @unsafe. i understand what you are saying about Judas in John 12.

John 11 and John 12 both talk about Mary anointing Jesus's feet. John 11 reads as though it happened in the past. Do you think the two descriptions relate to the same incident? Or did it happen twice?